Which DCC system to buy?

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by distantantennas

Huge outlays suck. Had to buy new tires last week. [:(!]

Thanks for all your input, Randy. I definately think I'll go with the Zephyr. Probably sell of one of my DC powerpacks, keep the other for jump ports. Any recomendations on decoders? They all seem more or less equivilent. I'm doing N scale and plan on retrofitting the old Atlas GP7s I have.

N scale is tough, most of the decoders are made to specifically fit certain locos. Check each of the main manufacturers for recommendations. In thse N scale locos withotu some sort of light board, you willlikely have to mill the frame, or have it done for you - Aztec is one of the companies that offers this service.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Huge outlays suck. Had to buy new tires last week. [:(!]

Thanks for all your input, Randy. I definately think I'll go with the Zephyr. Probably sell of one of my DC powerpacks, keep the other for jump ports. Any recomendations on decoders? They all seem more or less equivilent. I'm doing N scale and plan on retrofitting the old Atlas GP7s I have.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by distantantennas

Like so many others, I'm in the same boat.
Have layout now that's on DC with blocking and has throtles for four trains. The layout's essentially two loops, with two interchange tracks, a small yard and some industrial sidings. I could do four trains on it, possibly five. I'd like to be able to do switch control through the DCC system and play around with automated computer control, being something of a computer geek as well. Auto-reversing would also be a huge help. Walkaround might be nice, but on a 4x8 layout it's not essential.
The Zephyr certianly seems to have the right price, given that I'd also have to spend money on the DCC controllers. Some people have suggested that might be a bad move, both because Digitraxx is bad (I have no way to know) and 'starter' sets are pointless. From the material it seems that the Zephyr can be expanded to do a lot of things. Anybody had experience with that?

The Zephyr is FULLY expandable without every throwing out any parts you buy along the way. You can add more throttles, extra boosters, etc. Whatever you need. And the Zephyr console part will still function as a command station, or just a booster, and a throttle. Nothing goes to waste.
Yes, if you know you need a big system it is usually cheaper to just buy the big system right away. But if you don't have unlimited hobby funds (few of us do), it's nice to be able to go step by step as you need more. It may cost you more in the long run, but sometimes that beats a huge outlay in one big shot.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

I recently was seeking the same information as you are now. I did extensive research as many here have suggested. The key to making the final decision was the specifics of my layout. After I carefully studied my track plan, which is quite large (36'x30' and mainline 350'+), the anticipated average number of operators (3 to 4), and of course my budget. Each layout is different therefore, have different requirements. For me (and my two boys), the Zephyr seemed the logical choice. I liked the low cost to get started, and the ability to upgrade as we go.

Since my trackplan is quite large, I have been building in stages. I have the benchwork, track, and wiring installed in the first stage. It is just over 100' of mainline along with a 10 track yard, 12' long industrial area and includes two 13' passing sidings. This has allowed us to start operating. 10 locomotives with decoders, but rarely have all of them assigned at one time. I bring this up because I was leary of the Zephyr because of the 10 address and the 2.5 amp limitations. This has not been a problem as of yet. All three of us operate at the same time. I run the yard with two SW1500's MU'd together, one of my boy's will run the through freights with three GP's or SD's MU'd together, and the my other son will run the local with two GP's MU'd together. That only uses seven of the addresses leaving three left. The 10 address limitation has never limited our operations, once my Dad ran with us and only then did his through freight bring us up to the 10 address limitation. Nor has the 2.5 amp limitation limited our operations. I guess it is because, no one throttle is ever at 100% at the same time, and rarely is more than one throttle initiating a start. Most of my engines are old Athearn to boot.

My point is that I wanted the most bang for my buck. I am satisfied with my decsion to start with the Zephyr. It is probably at its limits right now, but I will just add a booster to my next phase of track work to solve that problem.

For the price, I don't think you can beat the Zephyr. I especially like the ability to readback my decoder CV's. Without this feature, I believe I would have drove myself nuts configuring my decoders in the beginning.

Hope that helps you in your search.

Mike in Tulsa-BNSF territory

[Anonymous]

Like so many others, I'm in the same boat.
Have layout now that's on DC with blocking and has throtles for four trains. The layout's essentially two loops, with two interchange tracks, a small yard and some industrial sidings. I could do four trains on it, possibly five. I'd like to be able to do switch control through the DCC system and play around with automated computer control, being something of a computer geek as well. Auto-reversing would also be a huge help. Walkaround might be nice, but on a 4x8 layout it's not essential.
The Zephyr certianly seems to have the right price, given that I'd also have to spend money on the DCC controllers. Some people have suggested that might be a bad move, both because Digitraxx is bad (I have no way to know) and 'starter' sets are pointless. From the material it seems that the Zephyr can be expanded to do a lot of things. Anybody had experience with that?

[Anonymous]

I'm in the same boat.

I'm currently finishing laying roadbed for my track on my brand new layout. It is quite small now, as I've only taken over half one room (the other half is reserved for wife's sewing)...but I would like an expandable DCC system for the future. Something that will handle just about anything you throw at it later on.

I was impressed with the 10 year warranty and flash-ROM upgradability of the Lenz system. Also, at least from what Lenz says, their set of features and standards became the NMRA standard. I don't know if that's just PR, but at least it sounds good.

Also, seems like the Lenz 90 system is price positioned between the Zephyr and the Super Chief. Anyway, just thought I would chime in.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone use MRC sound decoders? I'm really new to the whole DCC thing. I'm starting my dream layout, And I want to do it right. I thought the Prodigy system sounded great and the price is right. I don't own any DCC or sound equiped locos, and i will only run 3 or 4 locos at one time max.


thanks [:)]

[selector]

I ordered the EZ-Command from Bachmann, but did so unwisely. It could not program my BLI loco. So, when I heard that Randy was looking at the SEB with the DT 400, I figured that I should probably just jump on the wagon.

I do not regret my decision; it has worked as the manual says it should. It does control a Soundtraxx-equipped LL Heritage 0-6-0, and it makes the BLI do what I want. It has enough power that I can run up to 8 locos if I'm not making them draw a lot of current. Of course, there was a learning curve, but who would purchase anything electronic today and not take the time to learn what the object can do by keeping the manual close by for a week or two?

I don't intend to program CVs using my PC any time soon, so that SEB limitation is of no great consequence to me.

[Adelie]

I like the DT400, too, Randy. I thought it might be too complex as compared to my DT300, but it does make things fairly simple.

One thing I have always appreciated on this forum is that when a thread like this breaks out, people honestly post the pluses and minuses of what they own and what they evaluated in making their decision. It is a credit to the members here that it never seems to break down into "I own the Acme Wiley Coyote system, and anyone who buys or says anything good about any of the others is an idiot."

[rrinker]

Now that I actually have one, I'm loving my DT400 throttle. Easy to hold in one hand and roll on and off the throttle, plus the double-click reverse makes switching a snap - all with one hand free to work the skewer in the coupler. Or reach under the layout and move the Tortoise - I REALLY need to get my fascia installed so I can hang the control panels. Reaching under is getting old. Too much fun running the trains though.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

I have a Digitrax Zephyr, and have been completely satisfied running it so far - below are my specs which may help compare to your situation and your decision making process:

I run up to 4 trains at a time, but most of the time only 2
2 of the locos I run at the same time have sound
Layout is 8'x8'
I do not use any reverse loops or block occupancy, nor have I added turnout controls to my dcc setup

I have installed decoders into 10 loco's, and all have worked properly with my zephyr system.

I chose the Zephy after having a "bad" experience with the MRC Prodigy Advance system - I say "bad", because I think the problems were all a result of "user error", and not really a problem with the MRC unit itself. I really likes the MRC's handheld unit - I don't particularly care for the Digitrax handhelds. But I do like the expandability that Digitrax offers. In the winter, I am planning on adding a 20'x10'x4' around the wall layout with a large penninula type switching yard in addition, and I have no worries that my digitrax system will expand to accomodate my needs.
As far as user experience with DCC, I was completely green when I got the MRC (another reason why I probably had problems with it), but found the learning curve to be very short, if you just want to install decoders and run the locos with their default settings. I have not yet experimented with CV programming, but plan to down the road a bit.

[ClinchValleySD40]

[
NCE does not yet have a starter set,

New NCE starter set on the way. Check out

http://www.empirenorthernmodels.com/NCE%20Page.htm

Very expanable, very inexpensive. Plenty of bells and whistles to get you started.

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CraigN

I was thinking of buying a LENZ 100 system but someone told me I should save my money and get an NCE system instead because it has all the bells and whistles.

My question is- What bells and whistles was he talking about? Does the NCE system really offer that much more for all the extra money it cost?

NCE does not yet have a starter set, so the only way you would consider NCE is to accept the "bells and whistles" argument and ignore the so called starter sets. Starter sets fall into 2 catagories. Those that can be built upon and expanded as needs and funds allow. The Lenz and Digitrax Zephyr fall into this group. Then there are those that are very closed and offer little or no expansion. I contend that if you match your current and future needs to a system, it is very possible to get going in DCC in a very satisfying way using one of these starter sets. NCE is expected to release their own starter very soon also. If the Lenz 100 does what you want and can grow with you, go for it.

[NZRMac]

I have a Lenz Set 100 and a LH90 knob throttle they have all the bells and whistles I'll ever need.

They also have the hardware built in for future things like train detection and signalling.

Ken.

[CraigN]

I was thinking of buying a LENZ 100 system but someone told me I should save my money and get an NCE system instead because it has all the bells and whistles.

My question is- What bells and whistles was he talking about? Does the NCE system really offer that much more for all the extra money it cost?

[dehusman]

I am not a big fan of Digitrax systems. The different model throttles all have different layouts, the buttons aren't marked clearly and operating sessions I have attended using them always had some sort of glitch occur. I own NCE and have also used EasyDCC, which a lot of people like. The systems I have operated only had 2 digit addressing (which I would not recommend). Another modeler who is very operations oriented and very picky about reliability (he designed hump yard software applications) swears by Lenz. YMMV

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

It is my understaning that although it is a "prodigy" system, not all prodigy systems are compatible. I believe I heard that some of the systems are not upgradable to do things of the better systems. Personally, I have never used MRC and cannot speak from experience, just heresay.

[Anonymous]

I noticed that the MRC Prodigy Advanced is not realy mensioned here. Are Any problems to watchout for with the Advanced system?

[Anonymous]

You can find decent prices on ebay as well. I purchased my Lenz 100 system there from a licensed dealer, factory new in the box with warranty for $215.00

[Anonymous]

I am in the same club as Christov and I agree with what he says. It's worth considering using what your local club uses if you belong to one. I bought a powerhouse pro 5 amp a few months ago for less than $400. It's going to be all I need for an 11 x 14 in my garage, but I do like the idea I can expand easily as I get the money and the need. Probably just me and 1 other operator maybe 2 so at least 1 more of some kind of controller is in the works.

[tommyr]

I am thinking about switching to DCC My RR is a double level around the walls point to point. I have an elevator in the room next door. (soon to be replaced with a helix) 99.9% of the time I am the sole operator. Because of the lack of continuos running the most trains I can run at one time would 2. Given all the above I have been leaning towards the Bachmann System. One of the reasons being cost. Here in Canada things are a lot more expensive. I can pickup A Bachmann for $149.00(probably cheaper if I shop around) So I am wondering if this system would do the job for me? I hve 1 BLI loco the rest I will have to put decoders in. Sadly probably not sound. On a fixed income that" just a little too rich.
To I forgot to mention I went on Bachmann's site & they say thet are releasing A walkaround & panels for same late 2005

[rrinker]

Some more information would be useful before saying just get the biggest system. How big is the proposed layout? How many trains will be run at one time? How many operators will there be? A Super Chief or NCE PH Pro is overkill for a 4x8 layout in most cases.
We had a guy come into out LHS for some help from 3/4 of the way across the state. He was hopelessly lost, his LHS out there sold him a Super Chief for his 4x6 layout that had a mix of brass and nickle-silver track, and he always ran his trains just by himself. A Zephyr woudl have been MORE than adequate. That Super Chief probably cost more than his entire layout, especially if, as I suspect, he paid full MSRP for it.
I have 1 other operator, and we run 2-3 trains on the 8x12 section I have running. All with a Zephyr. I can add a third operatore and 2 more trains, and STILL handle it with the Zephyr. Do I REALLY need a Super Chief? Maybe when I build the section down the long wall of my basement and I can accomodate 4-6 operators. If I had to wait until I could drop $400-$500 on a DCC system, I'd still be waiting, and runnign with DC. If you ALREDY have a basemnet-size layout and want to switch to DCC, by all means, go for the bigger system, you're going to need it.

I have noticed that those who's favorite systems don't have a lower-end option, a 'starter system' if you will, are always dead set against 'starter systems'. I wonder why? Do they all associate 'starter system' with MRC Command 2000, original Prodigy, or Bachmann, which truly ARE too limited for more than a basic train set. And I wonder if their tune will change when the NCE PH-Starter comes out.

--Randy

[simon1966]

I think a better way to put it is to say don't buy a starter system that has no expanison capability without first determinig that it meets all your needs, both now and in the future. The Zephyr is a starter system but fully expandable. Many have started with it and built on to it when new features became important to them.

[claycts]

CHRISTOV is 100% correct. I have a Prodigy, Chief and Super Empire Builder. In other posts you will find out the beginner (Prodigy is only good for 32 2 digit addresses) The SUPER EMPIRE BUILDER can not read CV code and the CHIEF does everything BUT no auto reverse. That is about $1,000.00 in DCC and all are different. If I was redoing it and had the Forum to help I would have bought JUST the NEW SUPER CHIEF then added parts to get what I now have.
In short YOU CAN NOT SPEND TO MUCH TIME ON RESEARCH but you can spend TO MUCH MONEY if you do not. Anymore questions please ask.
The answers you get are not THE LAW they are experience and us trying to KEEP people in the hobby.
George P.

[Anonymous]

I too would NOT recommend a starter system. By the time you learn to use it you will have almost outgrown it. A lot of the smaller systems do not give you the capabilities that the larger DCC systems will. I have used NCE, Digitrax, and I own Lenz. As long as everything is set to NMRA standards, you shouldn't have any problems. Model Railroader makes a booklet titled: DCC Made Easy. This is where I would start. Read the book, get the concept, and in the back of the book there is a side by side comparison of the different DCC systems available. IF you have a local model railroad club, you may want to use the same system as they are. This way you will have a wealth of informed users at your disposal, AND you can teach them too as you learn.

[ndbprr]

The absolute most important thing you can do is either visit layouts with different brands or hobby shops that will demo different brands for you. They don't all operate the same and the controls don't work the same and you want the system that uses a logic that works the way your mind does and feels comfortable in your hand. Ergonomics are cirtical for long sessions.

[Anonymous]

I'm a newbie, and I went for MRC's Prodigy Advance system. For uninformed lill ole me, it was the best tradeoff between performance and cost.

It can be used to read and program the loco's CV's, and that's important. CV's are memory addresses whose contents affect particular facets of the loco's behaviour. Things like intertia, momentum, top speed, different lighting effects, whatever.

So in effect by changing a loco's CV's you would be customizing its behaviour.

[tpatrick]

Don't be too hung up on being a beginner. DCC isn't that hard. When I went to DCC I bought the NCE Procab R. It has all the bells and whistles (literally) and yet it is very user friendly. I chose it because I wanted wireless radio control and NCE seemed to have the best. My advice is to decide how much money you are willing to invest in a DCC system and then go for the best that is within your budget.. If you go for low cost, go also for expandability, because one day you may want to upgrade. Beginner or not, you will be operating like a pro within 15 minutes.

[dehusman]

The biggest , highest tech system you can afford.

Don't worry about getting a "starter" system. There is no difference in track wiring between a MRC and an NCE system. The high end systems are no more complicated to use. The advantage to buying a high end system is that as you increase your proficiency, the system already has the ability to accomodate your improved talents. No extra systems to buy or swap.

Also radio throttles are a way cool thing. They really free up your operation so that you can fully concentrate on the train.

Dave H.