hey everyone, i need some input please!

[Medina1128]

Kleimeyer, thanks for the advance notice. Now I have to scrape that talus off and find something else to use. Actually, I had a buddy who owned a landscaping business and you can but "decomposed granite" and it looks great!

[Anonymous]

early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy and wise. Or something like that. Anyway I have a couple of cents to spend.

I'd lay the main on cork or Woodland Scenics roadbed but leave the sidings and yard right on the foam. Use sifted peat moss or dirt or cat sand (clay type only) for 'ballast' in the yard - unless you have a cat in which case never, repeat never, put any cat sand on the layout. Cats know that smell and what they do when in it. If you have to ask how I know, you don't have a cat.

[selector]

Not to worry, P. I have done more editing than you can shake a stick at. I know that it is sometimes hard to keep what whomever last said straight, and it gets worse as the night goes on. I know it's time for beddy-bies when I find myself doing more 'return' key hhitttng themn getingg my mesge tiped. [zzz] [:)]

[pcarrell]

selector,

Please see my edited post above your last post.

[selector]

I believe he was agreeing with us, and quoted Marlon in his post.

I can recall driving for long periods on the prairies and seeing the same two grain elevators for more than 30 minutes. That is flat. But as soon as you place yourself at the top of a 200' radio mast, which in HO scale is about where your eyes are above a 40"-high layout surface, you should be able to discern shadows and washouts and vegetation that indicate water courses and reservoirs, ditches, and even dug-outs. So, we should probably model them if we are bothering to scenic such a setting.

[pcarrell]

I've been there and lived there. I've lived in OK., WY., IL., and I currently live in Indiana, all mostly flat areas. We had ditches, gullies, and stream & rivers in everyone of those places.

They are predominatly flat in many areas, but there are slight variations to the terrain. Heck, man PUTS slight variations into the ground everytime he landscapes, plows a field, builds a road or even builds railroad tracks (these last two have to be raised to have drainage).

I'm glad that the people here have a modelers eye and notice those suttle things that make all the difference between a good model and a great one.

And one more thing, I am soooo glad for the edit feature on this forum because I completely misunderstood what was said earlier and now I can remedy that somewhat.

To all those who read my original answer In this post, I humbly ask for your forgiveness if I offended anyone. I might have come off as questioning with other members views on this topic and I was trying to agree with them and doing a poor job of it. I'm sorry. [V]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Medina1128

I disagree about the flatness issue. If you stand in a 2 story building in Nebraska, you can see all the way to Texas!!

That is, unless you're standing in the pine ridge region of Nebraska, or in the Wildcat Hills South of Gering. Much of the Cornhusker state is prairie, but there are some areas in the panhandle that are NOT FLAT. Just like there are hills and canyons in parts of western Kansas with elevation changes severe enough to "pop" your ears. If ya ain't been there ya ain't got a clue!!

[pcarrell]

You know, I used a table saw to cut my roll of masking tape to a width just a little wider then my railheads on the last layout ( I haven't gotten that far yet on this one ). Think of it as making your own pinstriping (don't use real pinstriping, it's too sticky and leaves a mess - don't ask me how I know). That way I could scenic the WHOLE yard at once, between the rails and all. Made it easier and gave better continuity to the scene.

[Medina1128]

I used the wire wheel to scour out some foam to put the track at a slightly lower level. I not only needed a shop vac, but a gas mask as well. Foam went everywhere. I used a regular wire brush and did it by hand. I had more control, and although I needed the shop vac to clean up, it wasn't flying all over the room.

[selector]

This is where you have to get creative. Your track, depending on code and whether pre-tied (Flex-Track) will be above the foam surface IF you don't use a wire brush and scour out a shallow series of trenches for your various yard tracks. If you want them to look realistic, then you will have to build up the terrain a bit, maybe 1/4". You could look for 1/4" foam and lay it in strips everywhere in the yard, and then cover it with a thin layer of plaster to colour it and make it look like yard dirt. Delaing with liquid plaster near those tracks will be tricky; you'll really need painter's tape to cover it. Later, add a few bushes, shrubs, grass clumps, etc.

If you elect to scour the track beds (it would be my choice, cheaper than purchasing extra foam), you only have to paint over the adjacent foam that is already there, and scenic as you see fit.

[Anonymous]

In the yard area where there is no cork should ballast still be used? Or anything else?

Jim

[canazar]

[#ditto]

Thats whatg I did. I have my main running on cork which is on the foam, and then in my industrail yards and my mian yard, I just laid it down right on the foam. You will have to make the transtion ramps to the "lower/upper levels" but atleast from what U have seen aroudn here in Phoenix, it is very prototypical. Good luck!

Best Regards
John k

[pcarrell]

I'm with selector!

[selector]

Yard yes, main no. You said earlier that you desired a slightly elevated main, so I suggest, once again, that you use your cork solely under your main. Everything else can stay at, or near, foam surface level.

[geepers]

hey guys, i really appreciate the suggestions. so does everyone pretty much think i should just lay the track directly on the pink foam? thanks again![:)]

[Medina1128]

PCarrell, you can come out of your corner. I loved the idea for a crown in the roadway. [tup]

[pcarrell]

selector,

You are correct. Even Iowa has ditches, gullies and depressions in the ground, just not a lot of them. On a model there is nothing that looks more fake that a billiard table smooth tabletop IMHO. Even in a city scene the roads are crowned and there are rain gutters.

geepers,

One thought that I had for you. When I answered your post originally it was quite late at night and after a long day I was not at peak thinking capability. I kind of assumed that you were trying to model countryside. If you are trying to model the city and thats why you want the railheads at street level then might I suggest laying the tracks directly on the pink foam and then bringing the streets up to the rail height. I think that might be easier then trying to carve down into the pink stuff and then make it level. One way to do this might be to lay the track and then use some type of thin foam on all the surrounding areas to bring them up to the rail height. I think if you go to the craft section of Wal-Mart they have sheets of this 1/8 inch thick foam that comes in different colors that is used for different kids crafts. I'm sure there's probably a cheaper place to find the same stuff like maybe a teachers supply warehouse or something. Anyways, you could lay that down to bring the street level up. You could easily put a crown in the streets with this stuff by simply gluing down a row of toothpicks end to end down the centerline of your intended street before you lay down the craft foam. Ta-dah, instant crown! Then cut some sheet styrene to fit between the rails (be sure to leave some room for the wheel flanges) and lo and behold, you have rails running through the streets!

OK, now back to my corner.

[selector]

I think what he is intending is that, even in Nebraska, the ground underfoot is not really utterly flat. On a scale of miles, sure, but in the area within any 100 meters, there will indeed be little depressions, gullies, a culvert, hillocks, ditches, washouts, gulches, whatever. Any layout will benefit from the added realism imparted by a few, well placed, departures from the flat foam surface.

I served in the Canadian Armed Forces for a total of 11 years on the prairies, and can assure you that flat can only be used to describe them from 5000 feet, or with one's chin on the ground.

[Medina1128]

I disagree about the flatness issue. If you stand in a 2 story building in Nebraska, you can see all the way to Texas!!

[pcarrell]

If you look at the prototype you find that the roads are often a little below track level. As you come to a street crossing the road rises slightly to cross the tracks. The exception to this is city trackage that runs through the streets or sometimes yard tracks (oh yeah, and trolly tracks).

My suggestion would be to maybe ditch the HO cork and get some N scale cork roadbed. It's not quite as tall and if you don't split it you will find that it supports your HO track just fine. You will have to use a little more ballast to bevel the edges in though.

Another suggestion for creating some visual height differences is to carve down into the 1" pink foam a little here and there. Carve ditches beside the roads and tracks. If you have a road that runs beside the tracks putting a ditch between them will not only enhance the visual appeal but also tie the two elements together. A dry stream bed (or even a wet one) would add some intrest, and give you an excuse for a bridge, culvert, or maybe a pile trestle.

If you look at nature you will notice that even in the flattest country areas the land is not REALLY flat. Thats just the overall impression. There are some variations though.


I would get some photo's of the area you intend to model, visit the area, or better yet if you live there, and really study the geography of the land. Your model will reflect the extra effort you put into it at this stage.

[selector]

If you want a raised main, then use strips of cork, or the precut roadbed of cork under the main. For the rest of the layout, use nothing! Your roads, terrain, and yard tracks should be at nearly the same level. However, if you really want the yard rails, only, above the terrain, with the ties at the same level as the terrain, then you might be better off scouring out the bed for that line. Lay the track, mark the outside with a marker, and then use a 4" round wire brush on a drill to scour out the entire line to the 1/4" -or-so depth that you need. You save cork, and you keep the nice surface of the foam everywhere else. Have a shopvac handy, though; you're gonna need it!

[geepers]

hello everyone, on my layout i have a 2' wide around the walls layout. the sub road bed is 1/2" plywood. i covered the plywood with 1" extruded pink foam. my layout is based on a branch line in the 1960's era. i would like to keep all my tracks in the industry yards ground level so i have an even transition for my roads and parking lots. i would like to show a bit of heigth difference on the main line. i have both regular HO cork and a bunch of the wide sheets of the same type cork that are around 11" x 3'. can someone tell me the best way to achive this? should i use the sheet cork in the industries? i just want to do it right this time because its getting expensive tearing up cork and foam every few weeks[:I] thanks in advance for your suggestions!
steve[V]