Yard and incline in a curve

[electrolove]

I need som advice here.

Is it a very bad idea to have a small yard with a couple of tracks and some sidings, made as a curve (maybe a radius of 27") and at the same time in a incline at 2%? It's about 95" from the start to the end of this yard.

I don't know if I have explained this in a good way. Just ask me questions if you don't understand what I mean.

Thanks in advance.

[tjerrard]

Bad idea IMHO. Your cars will roll assuming you could get them uncoupled on the curve.

Tom

[IRONROOSTER]

In general you don't want the yard on a curve because the couplers tend to not mate up because they are offset to the out side of the curve. The last comparison study I saw, horn hooks (which are not much used due to their non protoypical appearance) were the best for coupling on a curve, Kadees were second. The sharper the curve the worst the problem. An incline will cause cars to roll to the bottom of the hill. Your uncoupling magnet (assuming Kadees or a clone) should be on straight level track for best results usually on the yard lead so you only need one (assuming delayed uncoupling).

I think your curve is too sharp and your grade too steep for good results. I would recommend you set up a test track and try it before committing to building the yard.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

In order for a track arrangement tot be useful as a yard, you need to be able to reliably couple and uncouple cars on each track of the yard. That doesn't mean the tracks must be without curves for their entire length, but you must have straight track wherever you plan to couple or uncouple cars. A straight length of track equal to no less than twice the length of your longest equipment is needed in order for couplers to be centered for reliable coupling and uncoupling.

A 2% grade is a steep mountain grade, and nothing you would want in a yard. A slight "bowl" shape (slight down grades of less than 1/4 of 1% toward the center of the yard from both directions) is ideal; dead level throughout the yard is the next best thing.

[electrolove]

Ok, that was what I suspected. I'm not gonna do it. I will build the yard without inclines and try to make the curve big with straight track here and there. Thanks a lot for helping me out [:D]

[selector]

I'd be interesting in knowing why you asked the question, EL. You must have a hankering for an arrangement with curve and incline somewhere, but why, with your current plan, did you consider a yard?

I ask because maybe we can help you to get it in elsewhere. Can you post your track plan for us?

[electrolove]

selector:

It's all solved. The reason was that I needed to get the end of my yard a little higher. I have tracks that crosses at different places. But I just rearranged the track plan a little and now it's working with a yard with no incline. Thanks for asking.

[nobullchitbids]

For anyone who has not solved this problem:

Modern trucks with delrin wheels will roll on any incline greater than one-half per cent, so that pretty much sets the limit for inclines in any area where cars are to be parked (unless you are in a scale where you can install working brakes!).

For those with no brakes: One solution once common but not mentioned too much anymore is to take the teeth of a clear, soft-plastic comb and install them at strategic intervals in the middle of the track, so that they stick up just enough to kiss the bottom of a car's axles. This allows the car to remain "parked" on a grade, while the clearness of the plastic tends to make the teeth difficult to see.

As for curved yards, they really are not terrible; however, anything less than 30-inch radius in HO obliges use of 40-foot cars or less. These curves are too sharp to use for longer (modern) equipment.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nobullchitbids

Modern trucks with delrin wheels .....

Sounds like a statement from more than forty years ago; there are no recent high quality model railroading trucks with delrin - or any other kind of plastic - wheels.

[tomikawaTT]

I ran some experiments on curved track coupling a few years back and discovered that the main problem is the offset differential between long and short cars. If every car is either a four wheel ore jimmy or equipped with toy-train `talgo' trucks, they will couple reliably on 24" (600mm) curves, or even less. On the other hand, 36" (900mm) may not be enough for passenger cars or 89-foot TOFC cars with body mounted couplers. As for uncoupling, an under-track magnet can be offset so that it acts where the couplers are, not at the track centerline.

If anyone wants to use this info, I STRONGLY recommend building a test mockup of your own track plan first.

[oldyardgoat]

Ah-h-h, we modelers can create a perfect world with the right amount of curvature and a flat terrain for the ideal situation. In the real world, however, the railroad locating engineer had do deal with such obstacles. Obviously this situation is in rough terrain, and we may be in an era where grading equipment was rudimentery. It may be a run down shortline operating on a shoestring . The small yard might serve a nearby coal mine. Or possibly a small town with a mill. Could be there is a stock pen near the "high country" where livestock is unloaded for summer grazing and reloaded for return to the low-lands in the fall. These conditions existed for many roads in all parts of the country "back when". The old D&RGW had scores of these conditions.
Have to park a car on a grade? "Set the brakes" with a small nail between the rails to catch a coupler or axle. If it's a temporary situation like spotting a car on a spur, use a 'brakeman", a block with a "handle" that will fit snugly against the rails to hold the train while the cut of cars is spotted. Such situations are why derails were invented. If the air bled off, or some kids pulled a prank, the car would hit the derail and not take off down the main line. Such solutions to such problems add realism to the operations of model railroads. I have an industry on a grade on my "flatlands" railroad. Rather than change the lay of the land as I found it, I employe these various solutions to fit the situation. I have nail to "set the brakes", and there is a split-rail derail not far from where the car is spotted, so it doesn't have chance to gather much speed before being "corralled".
And a 2% grade is not required for such protections. The late "Espee" had a car of lumber get away in Ahaheim, Calif. some years ago. Some kids had cut the switch lock, lined the derail, and released the brakes. The loaded flat car began rolling toward La Mirada on the 0.5% grade (along side the Santa Ana Freeway). The local "job" crew saw the wayward car coming toward them and hit the throttle to get away, but had to "join the birds". The car hit the SD-38(right behind our warehouse), knocking the cab loose, with the shifting lumber creating a nice "mold" of the locomotive on the end of the load protruding from the end of the car!
DS

[dinwitty]

I could plan a yard on a curve, you just work the curve where you won't expect to do coupling/uncoupling. But if you have problems, theres the 5 fingered hook to help...

[eihndrsn]

I would always advise against an incline through a yard but there are times when we may be forced to have an incline on an industry track. As I model in N scale I can hold a car on a grade by putting a bristle from a toothbrush in the four foot where it will just catch the axle. The bristle is flexible enough to allow the car to be pulled when picked up by the "local".

[dinwitty]

prototrype trains have brakes we can set, but we havent advanced or needed to go that far with models. Any yard was pretty much level so they could switch without setting brakes.