Sievers Benchwork, worth the price?

[Anonymous]

Fact is, I'm not great at carpentry, and everytime I build a layout table it's too bulky, heavy and unstable to give me any confidence as a sound foundation for a layout. I've seen Sievers Benchwork ( www.sieversbenchwork.com ) in the back of MRR over the years, and I figure if they've made a business out of building modular benchwork, there must be alot more people like me out there than care to admit. Has anybody used them? How long does it typically take to get the benchwork from order to delivery? Are they reliable? And ultimately, is it worth the price? $62 for a 36"x48" modular section (the largest module) with no legs, (legs come separate and cost extra) seems a bit pricey at first, but considering the convenience and what appears to be a very sturdy and stable design, I think it might be well worth the money. Anybody wanna confess to using Sievers and tell me about your experience with them?

[tstage]

jshade,

Sorry, I can't say I have any experience with Sievers bench products. Anytime you want "convenience", you're going to have to pay for it.

I paid ~$50 for lumber, hardware, and extruded foam for my 4 x 8' layout. There were a couple of very minor goofs on it but I was pleased with it and learned some things in the process. I already know how I will build my layout table differently "next time". [:)]

If you are frustrated by your "carpentry" skills, and you have the money, the Sievers route maybe a good way to go about it. The other alternative is to have a friend, who IS blessed with those kinds of talents, come over and both of you work on it together. This has many benefits:

1) You get your benchwork done "correctly".
2) You enjoy some "guy time" together with your friend.
3) If you want, you learn firsthand/hands on watching/helping someone else who has that experience.
4) A needy friend can make some extra $$$ for his time and talents.

If I were in your shoes, jshade - if at ALL possible - I would do the above. I always enjoy learning something new anyhow.

Case in point. Several years ago, I wanted to make a changing table for a young couple, who were having their first child. (She just turned 16 on Wednesday - ouch!) Anyway, I knew a retired gentlemen from church, who was a carpenter by trade. I asked Vern if he had the time and would be willing to help me with the project. He jumped at the opportunity and over the next few weeks, we worked on the project together. Vern did have access to a few nice tools I didn't, but, more importantly, he taught me some very handy "tricks of the trade" (i.e. jigs and fixtures) for cutting up plywood lumber, that I have used to this day. We were able to get the changing table done by the time my friends brought home Sarah from the hospital. That changing table has come in handy 4 more time since then.

I made a second one a few years later for my supervisor at work, who was having his first child. This "new and improved" version I made on my own, in my garage. IMHO, the second one turned out nicer than the first. However, if it weren't for Vern's experience, help, wisdom, and guidance on the first one, I would NOT have had the skills and confidence to accompli***he second. (The only power tools I used were a circular saw and an electric drill.) My old supervisor and his wife were "blown away". Now both sets of changing tables are being used as rollable bookshelves. I walk away from both experience having both gained and given some unique and special gifts. [^]

Jshade, sorry for the rambling. I know I didn't really answer your initial questions on Sievers benchwork. I thought I'd encourage you by sharing with you my experiences of learning. Maybe you have more carpentry talent than you think you do.

Anyhow, I hope this is helpful in some way, shape, or form...

Tom

[SpaceMouse]

I don't know the price of the woodwork, but here are some of the trade offs--these are in addition to what Tom mentioned.

You save time if you buy it--money if you don't (and do it right.)
You get well thought out benchwork--you are limited in design to the size and shape modules.
You will be unlikely to explore custom options with the factory benchwork--with the experience of building the benchwork you might be inclind to take on other projects like multiple levels and cookie-cutting your grades.

[Anonymous]

Well, I roughly priced out what I would need through them.... since I'm doing a 21x16 foot bonus room as an entire layout (E style) I would need approximately 14 of their 36"x48" modules, 4 24x48" modules, 2 24x36" modules, 17 36" wide leg assemblies (48" high), and 6 24" wide leg assemblies.... Grand total including estimated shipping (10% of total as per the website)..... I'm looking at around $2000 just for benchwork..... I pretty much made up my mind that whether I'm good at carpentry or not, I can do it (and still make alot of mistakes) for about 10% of that price if I buy the lumber myself and get my dad to do the cuts (he's got a nicely equipped wood shop) but it's gonna be a pain taking all the lumber to his place, cutting it and preassembling everything to make sure it fits, then dissassembling it all and setting it back up in the bonus room. I guess the time/labor/gas it'll take to do that though still won't add up to $2000, it'll just take longer to do. I hadn't really factored in that it was going to cost as much as it would when I posted the question. Their website shows several large layouts but they don't list price costs except for one, and it's really not even a comparison to the size I'm taking on.

[rrinker]

It really doesn't take a carpentry expert to build benchwork. My expeirence is limited to shop in school (more than just the required bit that everyone has to do - I took extra woodshop. Kinda felt out of place but I enjoy that sort of thing), helpign my Dad out when I was a kid, and helping my neighbor do modifications on his house when I was older. For the 8x12 section I have, I actually cut all the wood to length with a hand saw, and still finished it in one weekend. You can get the cuts straight enough with a $5 plastic mitre box from KMart or WalMart. Just get a better saw than what comes with it. You don't need thousands of dollars worth of power tools to build benchwork, unless you absolutely MUST have it all completed in a few hours. The other trick tool I used is a 90 degree clamp - they have these at Home Depot. It clamps two boards at a precise 90 degree angle so you can make clean corners.
I see the Seivers benchwork being useful in one condition - you live in an apartment and there is no way you can do all the hammering, sawing, and drilling.

--Randy

[IRONROOSTER]

The real key to open grid bench work like Sievers shows, is getting the boards cut to the same length. Getting the two side pieces the same length and getting the cross pieces the same length. While it may seem like a pain to cut it at your Dad's, a well equipped shop should be able to do this very easily. The time you save should more than offset the time to haul it there and back.

I personally used a radial arm saw for my benchwork and found it to be quick and easy.

You can do the same job with hand tools or portable power tools with a jig or miter box extension so you can easily make repetiitive cuts at the same length. I did this before I had a radial arm saw.

While I am sure a skilled carpenter could measure and cut each board to exaclty the same length, I can't. I always wind up with boards 1/16" off from each other. Which is I do one of the above.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

I've seen the Sievers benchwork and it is beautiful. For the price you get staight pieces of quality lumber that are accurately drilled and fit together easily. The design, especially the legs, is also well-thought out. The downside is the cost, but if you are not good at carpentry, don't like it, or just want to get trains running sooner than later, I'd go for Sievers.

John Timm

[SpaceMouse]

If the problem is just the cuts, rent a mitre saw. If you can read a tape measure and make a mark, you can cut accurately all by yourself. If you have multiple cuts the same length, you can make a jig so that you just run the board along the saw until it stops and pull down on the saw. I can explain how to do this better if you are interested.

[Anonymous]

I've always built my own benchwork but I have a friend who has used Sievers and says it's great stuff. A little pricey but allows for quick assembly.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

If the problem is just the cuts, rent a mitre saw. If you can read a tape measure and make a mark, you can cut accurately all by yourself. If you have multiple cuts the same length, you can make a jig so that you just run the board along the saw until it stops and pull down on the saw. I can explain how to do this better if you are interested.

You could BUY a nice mitre saw and all the lumber for $500 or less, still way under the $2000 price tag... Plus, think of all the great experience you'd get.

[Anonymous]

I inherited Sievers bench work from a friend getting out of the hobby. The wood is clear pine. Get a price quote for clear pine at a lumber yard and be sitting down when they tell you how much it cost. It's like gold. Then figure what it cost for a saw, drill, drill bits and hardware. The pieces are precisely machined. All legs are interchangeable as well as the other pieces. In other words the holes line up no matter which piece you use. Yes for some folks it's worth it. If you can't find decent lumber, don't have the tools or place to work and have the money it's worth it. However, I found the legs should have some additional bracing. Although I have the Sievers I still need to build some my own bench work.

You don't have to be a master carpenter to build sturdy bench work. You need to pick up a copy of How to Build Model Railroad Bench work, 2nd Edition
By Linn H.Westcott. It will show you how to make sturdy bench work without it being bulky. Also you don't have to use the most expensive wood either. The book will explain what to use and what to avoid. It would be easier than you think to cut the pieces and transport them to your location.
Then again, maybe you should start your own small wood shop to butcher wood on site. An inexpensive table saw for around $100 to $200 is a investment that will last a very long time and, in my opinion, is easier to use than a hand held circular saw and gives more accurate cuts. You can also pick up cordless drills rather cheap from Harbor Freight. I screw everything together rather than glue it. If I want to change something I just unscrew it.

[rvanparys]

Well here is my 2 cents....

I looked at the Sievers benchwork and it is indeed very nice. However..you are right on when you say that you can get the lumber for about 1/10th the cost.

I might suggest getting 3/4" plywood and ripping it into 3" pieces. Since most benchwork tends to be modular you can quickly construct 4' or 6' long units that you can manage to transport and navigate around corners.

Having access to the proper tools makes benchwork go extremely fast. The most important thing is to enjoy the project. I have also found that it is easy to sell management on the need for another tool if it can be applied toward my on going project. I now have a great table saw, miter saw and a new compressor and gun to assemble the parts..... God I love this hobby!!!!

Have fun..
Roger

[sansouci]

Yup,
The tools are outweighing the rolling stock. Did you ever try to store a 10" or 12" chop saw? The best idea is to make friends with someone who's got the tools and the interest and skill to do a woodworking project that could take a few weekends. After all, they want to make sawdust and you want to run trains. Symbiosis--ain't it wonderful?
"sansouci"

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rvanparys

I have also found that it is easy to sell management on the need for another tool if it can be applied toward my on going project.
Have fun..
Roger

actually there is a RULE .

every project requires the purchase of at least 1 new tool that is absolutely essential to the project . the project can not be completed without this tool , no matter how small , or how expensive . larger projects may require several new tools.

this isn't a bad rule . in fact it's how many of us aquire the tools we want ... uh need . yeah , need ...that's it

[Anonymous]

Gary Setter is right! The first time I ever used Lynn Westcott's great L girder system described in "How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork", I realized the angles of your girders and braces really don't even have to be perfect. Risers can be adjusted for the final leveling and height of the roadbed. The L girder is very very solid and easy to build. The whole thing is fantastic for a non perfectionist who wants to get it done fast. You need only a few C clamps, a power drill-screwdriver, drywall screws, and a mitre or circular saw to save a lot of labor. Use 1 by 3's and you'll be fine, and you'll enjoy building it, even if you hate carpentry! It's very forgiving and easy.

[Anonymous]

Well, on everybody's advice, I just went to the Kalmbach site and ordered "How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork" by Lynn Westcott. From the way everybody has raved about it, it sounds like it may even be cheaper than the crude table designs I had in mind! lol Thanks, and I look forward to starting the layouts just as soon as I've got the book in hand! :-)

[tcf511]

FWIW I used Sievers benchwork in my layout and would do it again in a heartbeat. It is excellent quality, not only the workmanship but the wood itself. It is very flexible. I had them make me several custom pieces to fit exactly what I was building and they did so with no problem. From the time I emailed the order to receiving it was often less than a week. Cost more yes but I assembled the benchwork for a 16 x 14 layout by myself in a single weekend with no more tools than a cordless drill with a screwdriver and wrench attachment.