Benchwork vs Trackplanning

[selector]

No, but nearly, Kathy. I was not too far into building my layout when I realized that i had nearly forgotten an important step. Right then and there, I began a list of things to do, IN ORDER, so that I would reduce my chances of a ....well...d'oh.

What did you do eventually?

[kathymillatt]

I have to admit to planning every curve in great detail only to change to code 83 Peco track after the benchwork was built. As they are not planning to do any curved points for a while I still ended using a bent stick for most of it.

However, I wouldn't have changed the track planning stage as I rejigged the plan hundreds of times before I got it right.

I, personally, didn't do a mock up but then I can easily see my layout in my mind's eye as I stand in the room. If I wasn't so sure then I would have built one.

Kathy

PS does anyone else think that however much you plan you still stand there and look at your benchwork and realise that something is wrong - I forgot to lower one level to allow for an industrial track dropping into the docks - doh!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tcf511

I'll play devil's advocate here a little. Wouldn't it be more prototypical to build the benchwork first? Real railroads didn't find land to fit the plans, they built to match the terrain.

We could carry being prototypical to its extreme lengths & build the scenery first. This would give us the opportunity to blast rock cuts along hydrocal outcroppings, dig tunnels through foam mountains, cut a swath through virgin forests of ground foam trees, sink trestle bents into Envirotex rivers. [:D]

Of course, that's what we all do eventually, despite our best laid plans.

Wayne

[tcf511]

I'll play devil's advocate here a little. Wouldn't it be more prototypical to build the benchwork first? Real railroads didn't find land to fit the plans, they built to match the terrain. I actually drew a rough concept drawing, designed my benchwork around Sievers modulars and then worked out a detailed trackplan to match the benchwork. I'm still early in the construction but so far things are working out just fine. Just a thought.

[rvanparys]

I opted for a rail cad system (3rd Planit)... and am most thankful. By having scaled turnouts and being able to set radii you can move to a manageable layout. Sketching does not take into account the length of turnouts for example. What I sketched initially I could not place in the space alloted all of the track work I envisioned... Hence my going with a cad system.

If you are new to cad then there is a learning curve. Happily 3rd Planit is easy to learn. One thing that is most important is aisle space. You can set this on your drawings and this allows you to form your track plan so that you can run and manage your layout after it is built... It is a lot easier to change a cad drawing then re-cut plywood and stringers.

I hope this helps.
Roger

[IRONROOSTER]

I think if you want to do a short line you could build say a 2x4 ft module, lay track, scenery, buildings. Then build another module and finish it, then another. For a relaxed approach where you are going to have only one or two locomotives and a few cars this can work very well. This is also good if your really not sure what you want and are willing to make changes.

On the other hand if you want a class 1 mainline with lots of trains planning will help a lot.

But remember this is a hobby and the only real rule is to have fun. If putting up the benchwork and then laying the track on it to see what looks good appeals to you then do it.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Or my modification of a new cliche? "Thinking outside the box is easier if you haven't nailed yourself inside."

Wayne

[Anonymous]

Another metaphor: "is it possible that we sometimes see only the hole in the donut?" lol

[sansouci]

I use the red rosin paper that comes in rolls from the home center. It's not flimsy while being relatively cheap. I also use make xerox copies of track sections to layout on the red paper. Seems to be rugged enough for what I need when I change my mind (which is often.

[mrgstrain]

9 by 12 sounds like alot of room. My room is about 10 by 11. What i did was to decide on a plan, sketched it on paper, took it to the room & laid it out to scale on the floor , changed it a few times to get what i wanted. All though others may have made better use of the space this is what i wanted. Then put tape on the floor to mark the benchwork to see what kind of working room i had. Larger radius curves take up more room than you my believe until you see it. Once i decided i built L-Girder benchwork & went on from there. I did change the track plan in some places, but i kept it within the footprint of the table. Have fun it is your R.R.
Larry

[selector]

We are flogging a dead horse here, but I"ll close my involvement with an old Army saying: 'Time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted." Reconnaissance is another term for getting useful information.

Another saying appears at public swimming holes...with 'deep' waters: dive in at your own peril.

Please, just do yourself a favour and build your layout with the benefit of an INFORMED decision.

Regards, and have fun, whatever you do.

[selector]

We are flogging a dead horse, but I'll add my Army philosophy. An old saying is, "Time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted." Variations have been proffered above.

Dive in at your peril....is another.

Please, just plan it first and then do what seems to follow from the vantage of an INFORMED decision....as I said much earlier.

[Anonymous]

In designing my layout, I got a general idea of the "footprint" then played around to see what was possible within those perameters. I moved a litte here and there until I got what I liked. I used PlanIt3D so making the changes and alterations was easy. I intended to use a drop valance lighting system over the layout, so had to finalize the design and build the valance first while I could access the area under the eventual benchwork.

[Anonymous]

Bikerdad, the mention of a "blueprint" was a metaphor: "a figure of speech in which one thing is likened to another." It wasn't intended to imply anything more than a "scale drawing" of a track plan is preferable to no drawing or plan at all.

If everyone remained within their own "comfort level," very little would have been learned over the millennia. Regards.

[orsonroy]

As long as we're whipping out the old sayings:

"no plan survives first contact with the enemy" (or basement)

Don't spend a LOT of time on a plan, since it's going to change once you start flinging track around. Have a GENERAL plan, but don't go too nuts detailing it; you're just wasting valuable layout building time!

[Anonymous]

Just a quote I remember: The man who fails to plan, plans to fail. At least draw a plan for your main line before any benchwork is built. Then you can add sidings and industrial spurs as the feeling hits you.

[SilverSpike]

Remember the old saying: Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance!!

While the space of 9X12 is limited, there are many possible track plans that can be achieved in such a space. Even if you just have a rough drawing or two of possible options, it will give you a starting point for layout design. Just putting up some lumber and benchwork without any thought to the locations of mainlines, spurs, turnouts, industries, structures, walkways, etc, it would would be a headache later on.

- Ryan

[Anonymous]

Plan your work and work your plan.

[SpaceMouse]

Will your plan work best as a C shape or an M shape or an O shape?

I'd plan a bit and see what works for you.

[Anonymous]

I do build homes (actually design homes since I pound the CAD system keyboard instead of nails.) I've also built layouts, as well as cabinets, bookshelves , etc. sometimes without plans. I'll repeat what I've said earlier. That is the minute you start nailing boards together without a firm plan is the moment you've limited your possibilities.

When I design a house, I do not start with a foundation plan. That comes later in the process. Though there are some exceptions, its designed function is to support what is above it. Even on a small lot, cramming in as much foundation as possible is not the same as making best use of the available space. It is true that you need to be aware of your maximum space available, but good design doesn't include having to cover every square inch of it .

The same concept translates to layout building in my opnion. It is far easier to design your benchwork in conjuction with your track plan development than to either cut it apart later so your final plan works, or far worse, live with an inadequate layout because you find youself limited by the benchwork you've built.

I know the itch to get nailing is hard to resist but realizing that the beautiful & solid structure in the layout room simply isn't going to let you build the layout you find you really want is even harder to accept. Let us know how you proceed, tarwheel38

Wayne

[Bikerdad]

Would I build a home without a blueprint? No, because a home is a VERY complex structure and I don't have a full understanding of the requirements of plumbing, HVAC, etc, plus the city/county bureaucrats tend to get nervous when there's no blueprints. I have, however, built tables, bookshelves, beds and shop fixtures without blueprints. Its simply a matter of one's comfort level with the process.

[Anonymous]

Would any of us begin building a home without a blueprint? I see the scale drawing in the same way as a "blueprint." The "sketch" is a fantasy- -the "scale drawing" is a fact. You will save yourself a lot of grief by using established standards for getting things started. Best of luck.

[Bikerdad]

Personally, I think it really depends a lot on your personality. If you have the resources (time, money and skills), then any order will work. What I would suggest is a simple sketch of the general plan. Then mock up the benchwork (something like just foamboard on sawhorses with the edges "marked" but not actually cut to final dimensions yet), buy roughly the track you'll need (only get a few switches, use them to make templates on the ol' copy machine), and start playing around moving track until you get a plan that clicks for ya. This is the "I'm not an obsessive planner who must commit everything to paper" approach. If you are a planner, then plan it out as extensively as you want before going to benchwork.

BTW, if you're going to do an around the walls layout, look into using the modular shelf standard systems that you'll find in closets. Very flexible, instant below layout shelving becomes available, the height can be changed easily, etc.

[Anonymous]

If you can get your hands on a wide roll of plain white paper, cut and spread sheets of paper where your layout will be. Draw your basic track plan on the sheets full size to get an idea on what you can fit where. Another tip is to draw curves full size on posterboard and cut them out to use as curved templates.

Howard Zane was a industrial/architectural designer and a highly skilled model railroader. He was trained to mock up three dimensionally. So when he built his layout, he just built it with no track plan. The layout was the plan or mock up. He envisioned what he wanted to do and knew how to do it. You can see his layout in the Allen Keller video # 12, Howard Zane's Piermont Division of the Western Maryland
Click on high lighted words for links.

[Anonymous]

I am in a similair situation and I am leaning toward a sectional layout. Sectional gives you the advantages of modules without the rigidity of a module's predetermined track placement. I am working on my first section right now and I can see one huge advantage. After I have finnished a few more and honed my skills I can tear this one down and redo it without interupting the operations on the rest of the layout.

[orsonroy]

In general, always plan at least the general footprint of the layout first. Trackplanning and track laying isn't the precise science most people make it out to be. You'll always make revisions to the plan once you've actually got track in hand. Coming up with a general idea of where your mainlines are to go is important, but more flexible than the limits & extents of where the actual layout can go.

Frankly, in a small space such as yours, I'd build the benchwork first. That way, you'll know EXACTLY how much space you have to play with. From there, start playing with different track arrangements before you start permanently laying track. Planning a successful and smooth-flowing small layout is actually harder than designing most mega-layouts, and you'll want to mess with lots of track arrangements before you settle for one.

[dehusman]

Unless you are doing a modular or sectional lyout where the size of the sections will be the same regardless of the configuration of the layout, I would design the trackplan first.

Dave H.

[gmpullman]

I sketched a few track plans and sorted out the best possibilities and, like Wayne, made some mock-ups. I used masking tape on the floor to map out the aisles, etc to get a feel for the "user friendliness" factor and to pinpoint any bottlenecks (i.e. doors, windows, duckunders) That gave me a feel for the space available. The newer blue masking tape would be easy to see... all I had in my day was the tan stuff.

[Anonymous]

I could never suggest building your benchwork first and then planning your track layout to fit. Be it a house or a model railroad, the proposed footprint should only be a starting point in planning and never become the ruling condition. The minute you start nailing wood together is the time you've limited your possibilities.

First you should have a basic idea in mind as to what you want in the layout. There are lots of threads here and elsewhere on track planning so there's no need to reha***hem here.

While you're planning the layout schematic or theme in your mind, look at the space available and make a list of certain preferences such as will it be an around the walls configuration, aisle width, any peninsulas, do you want a multi-level, etc. With these considerations in mind, sketch the benchwork plan on paper and, if there is any way possible, build a full scale mockup in the space available. Stack empty cardboard boxes to outline the proposed benchwork and large flattened pieces for the layout surface. Think about how comfortable it will be to spend any amount of time in this space. See how easy it might be to to pass someone standing in the aisle. Are there places that you will never be able to reach without climbing on the layout or providing access holes. When the cardboard benchwork seems to be exactly what you want, then begin drawing your layout . Keep an eraser handy and don't be afraid to go back and adjust that cardboard benchwork. It's a lot easier to massage the track plan and benchwork into a functional, flowing layout at this stage then when you're faced with a rigid, plywood structure staring back at you.

Now's the time to learn that the rail yard of your dreams will only work if you make the benchwork a few inches wider. Or you can look at your beautifully constructed benchwork and resign yourself to a less than perfect layout.

Wayne