Control panel ideas

[rrinker]

It's now time I started wiring up my Tortoise machines, reaching under the layout to move them by hand is not cuting it anymore, now that I have enough track in place to do more than run the trains around in a loop.
Electrical, no problem. I know how these things work. What I need is a suggestion on laying out the panel. I don;t want to buy a bunch of material just so I can scrap a few designs until I get it right, I want to get it as close as possible the first time.
Control will be by DPDT toggles. Indicators will be LEDs in series with the Tortoise (thus no dropping resistor required). The panel will have a simplified schematic of the track it controls. Train control is DCC, so no block toggles.

Item 1: Simple single-ended sidings: Do I put the toggle switch on the point of intersection of the track lines or off to the side (or top/bottom)?

Item 2: Crossovers. One toggle will throw both turnouts. Does the toggle go right int he middle fo the diagonal line connecting the two turnouts in the schematic, or does it go off to the side, and the LED indicating the turnouts are lined to cross over go in the middle? And to which side? If the crossover slants like this: \ should the switch be to the left or to the right?

Yes, these are odd questions, and I suppose to some degree you could say "whatever you want" but what I am trying to accomplish here is something that is reasonably ergonomic and makes sense to people OTHER than the guy who puts it together (me). ANd whatever I do here will be carried through the rest of the layout as it gets built, so I am trying to set a standard for the entire railroad.

--Randy

[NZRMac]

I think the DPDT switches would be better off to one side for the crossover, if it was in the middle of the \ how would you know which way the turnout was set, which track it referred to. How many LED's for each turnout?

Ken.

[TomDiehl]

Item 1, I'd put the switches right on the track line, set so the way you throw the toggle is the way the switch is set.

Item 2, The placement of the switch isn't as important as the indicator LED's. I'd suggest a green one for the through routes and a red for the crossover.

One thing many people forget when they're building a panle like this is to keep the physical size of the switch body (the part behind the panel) in mind. Make sure the diagram on the panel is large enough that your switches aren't on top of each other, and you can easily tell which switch goes to which turnout or crossover.

[rrinker]

Yeah good ideas. There will be double indication - switch lever AND LED, so it will be hard to become confused about which way you have the switch lined.
Standard sidings will have 2 LEDs, one for the normal route and one for the reverse. I was planning on using green and yellow LEDs, similar to the switch indicators on CTC machines. Red is reserved for future occupancy detectors.
Crossovers get 3 LEDs, one for each straight route and, if I put the toggle off to the side, a yellow in the middle of the cross connection to indicate the turnouts are lines to cross over.
I figured to make the face of the panels from two layers of styrene, solid and clear, with a color print sandwiched in between for the diagram part. To that end I am laying out the panels full-size with Visio - so there will be plenty of room for the switch bodies.
Actually, it won't be DPDT switches, they will all be SPDT. I plan at some point to add a full signal and dispatcher system such as C/MRI, so I am wiring the Tortoise motors like the example shown in the Signalling Made Easy series in MR last year. I did some experimenting on a breadboard and determined that using a modified computer power supply like I am, a 470 ohm resistor on one leg and a 560 ohm resistor on the other leg are just about perfect for a 2-Tortoise crossiver with 2 LEDs on one leg and 1 LED on the other, to give balanced operation.

--Randy

[Seamonster]

I'm in the process of making major changes to my layout so, like you, I'm going to be making a new control panel (the thought makes me shudder, but it's gotta be done). On the old one I put the turnout switches right on the intersection of the lines with the LEDs on the track lines where they diverged. For crossovers, I put the switch right in the / with the LEDs on either side between the tracks. A red LED indicated that the X-over was set for crossing and a green LED that both routes were set for straight through. I also labelled the switch with "X" and "=". One change I'm going to make is to use 2-colour LEDs so that I will need just one at each switch position. Tom's advice about having a large enough panel so that the switch bodies aren't crowded is very good advice. My old panel was way too crowded in back--a nightmare to wire. You may have to distort the track positions on the panel to get enough room.

[TBat55]

I wired mine in series with Tortoise using Red for crossover and 2 Greens for normal route (not necessarily straight part of turnout). Toggle switches were not in the middle of the X because I show gaps in the rails (helps me with wiring). LEDs are Radio Shack
276-084 Red and 276-085 Green mini's that mount flush with the surface (to wipe dust off). They have a built-in resistor.


With Digitrax Zephyr DCS-50 mounted with foam tape

Note programming track has DPDT toggle on end labeled "program" and "run".
Also middle of some blocks have switches no longer used.

The 4 tournouts at the bottom (2 Xovers) are for this:

[Anonymous]

Question: I was looking at LEDs last night at Radio Shack, as I want to use them in my control panel. The 12V ones I saw were only rated for less than an amp. Since they all seem to be rated for milliamps, are they OK to use? I know some have resistors built in. Is that enough protection? What I'm looking to do is have LEDs wired in series w/ my blocks so I know for certain that juice is going to a block, etc. Throw the switch, LED lights...

How will the LEDs work since the electricity going through them will vary (old-fashioned DC Cab Control layout) with the throttle setting? Which type do I need to buy?

Thanks!

[Seamonster]

It won't work to have the track voltage pass through the LEDs. Most LEDs can handle only about 20 milliamps (0.02 amps) of current. More than that and they go poof! Any resistor in series with the LED to limit its current would also limit the current to your track. The value of the resistor depends completely on what voltage is being applied. I.E. an LED lamp with a built-in resistor for operation on 12 volts has the resistor sized only for 12 volts. If you applied 6 volts, it would be dim, and if you applied 16 volts, it would probably burn out. There's another consideration. It's called Light Emitting Diode for the reason it IS a diode and conducts current in one direction only. When you reversed the track polarity to back up a locomotive, nothing would happen because the LED would block the reversed voltage. Finally, if you have the switch thrown for a block but don't have a moving locomotive in the block drawing current, the LED would not light.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but LEDs in series with track power just won't work. The only way to use them to show when a block is connected to a throttle is to use a double-pole switch, with one set of contacts switching the track voltage between throttles and the other set of contacts powering the LEDs from a dedicated D.C. power supply. Powering them off the track voltage side of the switch won't work because the voltage is always changing so the resistor would be correct for only one specific throttle setting.
...Bob

[rrinker]

For what are you intending to use the LEDs? You can't generally use LEDs where the voltage varies over a large range - LEDs are current-driven and need a steady current source to light. Those "12v LEDs" have a resistor in them so they can function on 12v - just connect the leads to a 12v source and the LED will light. If you connect an ordinary LED to 12v, it would instantly destroy itself, not from too much voltage, but from too much current.
I am using the LEDs to indicate position of Tortoise switch motors. The Tortoise switch motor only draws about 10-12ma. Thus, if you put an LED (or two) in series with the switch motor, it only gets 10-12ma, which is perfectly safe for them. You can't do this for twin-coil switch machines like Atlas and Peco. For one thing, the power isn't continuously there. Second, the pulse of current to throw these machnes in 1 amp or more, and would instantly fry an LED. Third, it's usually AC, not DC.
If you want to use LEDs to indicate position for twin coil switch motors, you need to add extra contacts, such as with the Atlas deluxe machines, or add the Atlas snap relay. This gives you an electrical switch that moves with the turnout points, and you can use a 12v DC power source to drive LEDs, either those 12v LEDs, or regular LEDs with 1K resistors.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Seamonster & RRinker, I have been educated! Thanks!

[rrinker]

Here's my panel layouts I worked up so far. Still need to do one for the yard.

This is the front edge of the layout:




This is for the back section. One spur will be designated as my programming track, hence the extra switch to toggle between runnign and programming, and the name of the siding, PGM Siding:




--Randy