New to model RR..

[jacon12]

First off let me say I'm 61 and have always been fascinated with this hobby but never had the time or space to get into it. I now have both, I'm retired AND I have a room that is about 15x21 feet, tiled floor... air conditioned. I've followed this forum some, even built a shelf O guage "layout" in my computer room, running around the room over the doors and window, into a closet and back out. Now I think I'd like to get into HO and probably ,like a lot of others before me' I want to tackle that whole room with an around the wall layout but I keep reading things that advise against that but instead do a simple 4x8 foot layout first to develop skills and get ideas. Is that what you did and would you advise that for someone like me?
Thanks for any advice!
Jacon12

[selector]

Hi. I, too, am recently retired, and new to the hobby.

The experts in most fields will tell you to start modestly, learn what your limitations are, what your preferences are, and what you would change when you go for the 'big one'.

However, if, like me, you are keeping a sharp eye on the $, even your 4X8 will set you back about $400-$800 US without super detailing.

I have to tell you that I dove in head first. Really!. My 90% finished 11-8 foot HO scale was quite daunting, especially since I had never soldered, built a table, carved foam, run wiring, etc. You'd think a grown man would be able to do some of that , but I was green, oh so green.

There were times I felt I was over my head, lost, never going to get to running trains, and so on. Then, just last week, I finished my hollow mountain's lift-off top and placed it on the unfinished base. For the first time in about five weeks I actually grinned and felt iIwas winning.

My advice, if you'll trust a newbie, is to go for it, within reason of course, and don't lose the forest for the trees if you get so busy (like I did) that you are 'on the job' more than a few hours every day.

I must say that I am my own worst critic, and my eye tells me that this layout is a winner. If you have any skills to draw on, Jacon12, take a deep breath and do it.

Just keep up the daily research, here and elsewhere, and think ahead. You'll do fine.

[jacon12]

I too have never soldered, built a few tables etc , but never ran wiring. I think the experts, and rightly so, are concerned that the beginner will get so overwhelmed that they'll simply lose interest, quit and pack it up. I can understand that train of thought.
I thank you for your answer and congradulations on your progress, it's probably getting to be something you're proud of!
Jacon12

[darday]

Don't know if my story will help, but I have found building a small pike after reentering the hobby to be a good choice.

I originally started in model RR'ing over 35 yrs ago, at age 11. By the time I was 16, I had started three HO layouts, a 4x8, a 5x9, and a 6x10 shelf layout. Because my family moved around all the time, I only completed the second one (5x9). Then I went off to college, served in the military, moved around the country and overseas, and only dreamed about building a layout again until about 4 yrs. ago.

Although I have space in my current house for something larger, I decided to build a very small 4x6, that I could move when I retire from the service, and to experiment with some of the new tools and techniques that had been developed during the 25 yrs. that I wasn't actively building anything. Within the next year, I'm planning to start construction of a larger, 5x10 layout, with an 8 ft. shelf extension along the wall (perpendicular to the long side), to serve as a staging yard. It will be built in 3 pieces, to be portable, because I'm about 18 mos. from retirement. After I get that pike done, probably in a few years and at a different location from where I live now, I think I'll finally tackle my ultimate layout.

--Dave

[Anonymous]

Think Big, plan small.

You can do the whole around the room, but do it in pieces, start with a small 2'x4' section, when you get that looking the way you want, move on to the next 2'x4' section. after that, you may feel you have enough practice to tackle a bit bigger section, maybe a 2'x8' section. Keep going till you got the whole room done.

On the side, I'd keep scrap track, ballast, loco's and roling stock for practice. want to solder rail? use the scrap sections to enhance the skill, want to weather that loco? Use that old Tyco you bought off Ebay for $2 as a practicer.

Same with structures and other things. Luckily for you, Woodland scenic makes lot's of practice sets for landscaping, roads and water. could pick up a few of those and practice that way too. They also have a Diarona kit that lets you preactice rails, ballast and lanscaping in one package.

[CP5415]

Welcome Jacon

While I'm not as old as you, no offence, I started out reading different books & magazines to see what I wanted to do with a track plan.
That's where Id start if I were you.
my Dad built a 4x8 table for me 30 years ago.
It was ok, but you seem to have a large space to work with.

When building the framework for the layout, use 1x4's.
They're lighter & easier to use than 2x4's
I used 2x4's for the legs.
I also screwed everything together, not nails.
A lot easier on the arms.

Most of my modules are 2.5' X 3'.
These I could manage to build in place with no help.
To hold the modules together, I used 1/2' nuts & bolts through holes I drilled in the module sides.
If you use this idea, you can build a section or two at a time & lay track just to give you something to "play" with.
Remember, you don't have to use the whole room.
My layout is 9x12 in a 9x24 room.
You're going to need space to sit, chit chat with freinds & storage, lots & lots of storage.

I hope this helps

Gordon

[jacon12]

Much obliged for all the advice. I'm wondering though.... it seems building a section at a time is a good way to go but.. what happens when you just have the urge to run trains, and I know that is going to hit? Unless you lay your track and then do all the scenics in sections. Is that the way its done?
Jacon12

[IRONROOSTER]

I started with a 4x8 using a plan from the back of John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation". Then I did a 6 x 6 1/2 using my own plan. Then I switched to O scale and started a 8x10. Then I did a G scale 5x12. For various reasons none of these got to scenery stage except the second one. Currently I am building an 11x18 S scale. Each of these layouts helped me learn a little more about what I wanted to do, as well as, developing some skills.

The primary reason I see to start small, is that once you have actually done some building and running trains your desires and enjoyment may change. You may decide you like building kits and/or scratchbuilding but HO is too small. You may decide you really like running long trains and HO is too big. You may decide you want to faithfully model the NYO&W and HO has the most available.

And of course with a small layout in the middle of your space you can run trains while you build the around the walls layout of your dreams.

Enjoy
Paul

[dwRavenstar]

Jacon:

Here's a thought. Faced with that much area and the vision of an extensive layout around the perimeter I believe I'd follow the module route, doing a bit at a time rather than tackling a major construction project that would hold me back from running any trains. The construction of that extent of benchwork would become a full time job in and of itself.

Running trains while moving from one module to the next could be accomplished by building an end cap module that could be moved as the pike progresses. Like a simple loop to connect two mainlines or a reversing loop to run back onto your progressing mainline. I'm thinking that I'd keep the entrance to the endcap module near the back of the base board as that would allow for a connection to any point at the edge of future modules. When you've gotten around the room you could either dismantle the endcap or incorporate it into your existing, extensive layout as a peninsula or in some other way.

Hope it all goes well for you and congrats on your early retirement. (I'm still a couple months short of 50 and wondering if I'll ever reach the easy life [8D])

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[tstage]

jacon12,

Here's a thought. You can always start with a 4 x 8' layout, hone your skills, then incorporate it into your around-the-wall layout as a penisula. Your efforts and money are then not wasted.

With the 15 x 21' space you have at your disposal, you would have plenty of room for a couple of peninsulas and increase the length of your running capabilities at the same time.

Tom

[egmurphy]

There's probably not one right answer, so don't agonize over it too much. I suppose I side with the "start small" group. Actually as I read through the thread two suggestions came to mind. Then as I reached the end of the thread I found that Dave suggested one of my great ideas and Tom came up with the other. And they each expressed it better than I could have. [bow]

Good luck which ever way you go. Post photos of your progress, please.

Here's a couple of recent in-progress shots of my little 3' x 6'-8" N scale layout built on a hollow core wood door.







Regards

Ed (who is 58, retired, and jealous of anyone with that much space!! [:D] )

[BRVRR]

jacon,
Welcome to the hobby and to the forum. As you can see already, you will get plenty of advice and help here whenever you ask.
As for myself, I am 59 and retired military. (30-years). I got back into model railroading after a nearly 35-year layoff because of my grandsons interest in trains. I've had a ball.
I started small, 4x4', and worked up to my present 4x10' BRVRR in less than 3-years.
I envy the space you have to work with!
My two-cents worth on your dilemma: I would go with the module and end-cap idea. You could be running trains almost immediately. But first, work out your track plan for the whole thing, at least the mainline(s) and major industries. Pick a starting point and start. If you want to start with something larger than a 30" x 48" module, Tom's idea of a 4x8' layout/peninsula, has great merit.
In the end it is your decision.Read, plan well, read, decide what you want, read, and read some more, then jump in. There is no teacher like experience.
I wish you much luck with your endeavor and a long and happy retirement.

[dehusman]

A 15 x21 room will allow you to put 2 ft wide benchwork around the walls with a 4 ft wide peninsula down the middle and have 3 foot plus wide aisles on either side of the peninsula. the end of the peninsula could go a little wider to accomodate a better radius (30" vs 21").

With me so far?

If you were to design a layout like that, you could build the peninsula as a "4x8" ilsand style layout, just make one end of it "temporary". After you have your feet wet, whack off the temporary end and build the rest of the layout around the walls and up to the "original" layout. You get to start small, but keep virtually all of your original efforts.

All it takes is a little prior planning.

Dave H.

[mcouvillion]

jacon12,

My 2 cents is to get involved with a local club, group, or individual where you can be part of the action and act like a sponge. After learning where your interests and skills lie, talk to your train buddies and get help designing a layout. I would build a sectional wall-mounted layout over a 4x8 any time. Regardless of room size, you can set up at least one or two sections and switch (read - run trains!). With a 4x8, you need a lot of room, the middle of the room is taken, you have to reach to the middle, and its heavy and awkward to move. The track plan will be either short or resemble a bowl of spaghetti. I would much rather build wall-mounted sections that are 12" - 15" wide by 36", 48", or 72" long. Work on them in the garage and leave the mess out there. Carry them by yourself, wire them on their side on the kitchen table, put them at your eye level, above the furniture. No sir, I would not build a 4x8 again if you paid me.

Mark C.

[selector]

Mcouvillion, that was more-or-less my slant earlier. I saw the very informative MRR DVD that came out near Christmas and felt that, skills or no, I would not be happy with such a small layout (pardon if I offend anyone, this is my personal preference) for long. So, as I said to Jacon12, I dove in with one three times that size and (whew, it was a daunting task at times!) have not looked back. Well, okay, once or twice maybe, but.....you know.

[camarokid]

After giving your request some thought, here's my 2cents worth. My layout room is 24x16. There is a door 12 feet in on the 24 side and the stairs to the basement on the 16 side. This cuts down the size of the room considerably which makes it look like a giant "P". Do you have any such obstacles in your way or is the room accessible by only one door that opens out, not in? Any windows that might be a concern for weather problems? With that much space your plan will take you some time to get trains going. If you want to just jump in(like I did) and get going, start by planning a table that is all one height and laying roadbed and track so you can run trains in a big loop. Just make sure you don't get caught up in watching that one train go around and around for hours (like I did). From that one big track plan will come ideas for your towns, passing sidings, industrial areas, yards and the most important, turntable and roundhouse (if you're into steam). Try to keep it as simple as possible because you (and the rest of us) always want more track to run on than we really need, so it ends up looking like a bowl of spaghetti. You will know what I mean by next year when you look at what you have (if not planned right) and all you see is track. I have that problem now, so it's curtains for about 90% of the layout. I am now 58 and started this building process over 30 years ago and I'm still not anywhere near where I want to be with the layout. This is not meant to be a flaming post even though it might be construed as one. You have the room for a big, nice layout. If you plan everything right the first or second time, you won't have to go back and do it over and over again (like I did, 6 times). An around the walls pike is the easiest to build because it only has to be no wider than 3feet in any one place. Build your turnaround end pieces (if you are going to have any) big enough to have a good curve to show off your passenger cars. A 30" inch radius should be minimum (that's 60" track center to track center). Build your dream, run it and enjoy it. I'm still working on mine and I have just realized I'm rambling like the old man I am. Ain't it great to get old.
Archie

[selector]

Very nicely said, camarokid. My compliments.

[Anonymous]

If you're using 3 rail O, "DONT" get HO scale, the curves are larger. N is
probally a better choice & if you're into streamliners N streamliners are easier
to find. I've seen SF's blue goose in N & O but not HO.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

Much obliged for all the advice. I'm wondering though.... it seems building a section at a time is a good way to go but.. what happens when you just have the urge to run trains, and I know that is going to hit? Unless you lay your track and then do all the scenics in sections. Is that the way its done?
Jacon12

YES!!! I agree here...you wont ever see the light at the end of the tunnel ---namely, the locomotive's light!! Some people like to work on ONE section until its done, then move on, but I wouldn't say that method is for all!!! Certainly not me---I got into the scenery, detailing, etc. so my trains would be enhanced...I didn't want to get so bogged down in construction the trains would have to wait a year or more to run!!!

Its good to put a backdrop in first (if you can find one or make one), then build benchwork, then lay some tracks (and have a loop /reverseloops so you can watch them go around the layout).. then i would concentrate on scenes---not just "scenery" but take little parts of your landscape and model what you want...steam terminal, factory setting, or mountain scene. If you get bored--you can start a different section!!

[Anonymous]

FOR THE NEWBIES: (and veterans, too)

Another tip i find useful!

a lot of progress on a model railroad means that you work on several items at the same time. for example, while i am waiting for glue to dry on a section or piece , i pull out my kit pine trees (i always need more of these for my large mountains!!) and slap sticky goo on them for the ground foam ("leaves" cover). it takes at least 30 minutes before the glue can set, so i go back to my previous project, what i have put together and by that time its dry enough for the next "stage" of construction. if i had to paint it, i paint then must wait for that to dry--so i go back to the trees.

in MR you will need to wait for things to dry, working with laquers, epoxys and paint--i always recommend having tree kits or structure kits handy for those times you are "stuck" waiting for things to dry!!!

[fishplate]

[#welcome] Jacon
When I started in the hobby, I got involved in a club. My favorite time was work nights.
There was just a few who were dedicated to working on the layout and they were very knowledgeable. They were usually older members (retired) of the club and had more time. I believe that what I learned by asking questions and hands on ( they put me to work) helped in the building of my Layout. What I learned on a given night I would apply
the next day at home. Here is a list of what these gentlemen tought me. Soldering,
handlaying track, wiring and circuits, rolling stock maintainance, etc. I have yet to come across a model railroader who is not willing to share any knowledge they have with others. Just look at the great advice from the other modelers on this subject.
[:o)] Have fun [:o)]

[simon1966]

Jacon12,

I am with you on wanting to get things running to keep motivated. After designing my layout (around the walls), I built the bench work and laid my mainline loops as quickly as I could so I could get something running. I did not build my yard till months later as I needed to spread out the cost of the turnouts. Also, I planned from the start for DCC, but used a cheap DC powerpack for almost a year before getting the DCC system installed. One bit of advice that I did not heed, is to get the backdrop in early!! Anyway, with some careful planning, I think it is quite possibe to get trains running in a reasonably short time.

[Anonymous]

Put in a backdrop first,,yes! i had not done that!!! But after the benchwork tackle the track and roadbed for the mainline(s) , some oval or reverse loop, so that the trains RUN and RUN WELL. Note that dont ru***hese stages, the more precise in your track alignments, the less frustrations of trains later when running!!! scenery later---no not the way some pros do it , but i think the majority of us want the track and trains running before one small section is completely "done" from bench to scenery.