110v Help please

[claycts]

I took the cover off the panel board and found:
(1) 30 amp 2 pole breaker SPARE in the panel. What can I do?
1. Add a sub-panel with more ckts to handle the train room.
2. Remove th 2 pole and replace with (2) 20 amp single pole
3. Call an electricean and tell him what I want and pay thru the nose.
[?]
Very Dumb Question!! My grandson typed it (he is 12 and wants to start BUILDING) sorry for the time waste. We are going to Split the 2 pole with (2) 20 amp single pole. One for power and 1 for the lights. Should be plenty in a 20x18 room.

[jwar]

Are you rewireing the room or going to do the electrical yourself, How much amps do you need and how long is the run.

[mcouvillion]

Claycts,

Sounds like you have the makings of a 220V circuit, or two 110V circuits that happen to trip at the same time if one has a problem. If you are not sure what I am talking about, you have no business inside the open panel box.

If you do know what I am talking about, you could connect your outlets for your railroad to the breaker (black wire to breaker) and the neutral and ground to the bus bars in the back of the panel box, adjacent to similar colored wires. Do all connections with the breaker off, and maintain the color code. Ask one of your friends who is familiar with electricity to help, supervise, or do it for you. Don't work on a live circuit. Work from the receptacles back to the box, and button everything up before connecting the black wire to the breaker LAST and then powering the circuit. Test with a 3-color LED tester before plugging anything else in. You could be a short-timer if you get in over your head. Never work where the floor is damp or you are in direct contact with a conductive surface (i.e. - barefoot). For extra safety, insulate the shaft of your screwdriver by wrapping it completely to within about 1/2 inch of the end with a good-quality electrical tape.

Get someone at the Home Depot to instruct you in how to properly terminate receptacles if you are unsure. It's not hard, but must be done correctly.

Model railroading gives you the opportunity to learn about a whole bunch of neat and useful things. I like model railroading because it keeps me in practice with what I call "saleable skills", things that can be used to make a living or save money if you know how to properly use them. But, safety is the first priority. When in doubt, get an experienced person to instruct you until you can demonstrate proficiency in the skill. Electricity can be unforgiving.

Mark C.

[claycts]

The room is 22x18 and the panel is less than 5 ft away from the room. PLans call for:
10 duplex outlets with low voltage track lighting. Also using fiber optic for special lighting. I was thinking of a sub panel, I guess that is where Eddie (my grandson came up with the post. He heard me complaining about the cost of hiring someone to rewire the room. The old circuits where not useable since there was a freezer and other loads already on it.

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mcouvillion

Claycts,

Sounds like you have the makings of a 220V circuit, or two 110V circuits that happen to trip at the same time if one has a problem. If you are not sure what I am talking about, you have no business inside the open panel box.

If you do know what I am talking about, you could connect your outlets for your railroad to the breaker (black wire to breaker) and the neutral and ground to the bus bars in the back of the panel box, adjacent to similar colored wires. Do all connections with the breaker off, and maintain the color code. Ask one of your friends who is familiar with electricity to help, supervise, or do it for you. Don't work on a live circuit. Work from the receptacles back to the box, and button everything up before connecting the black wire to the breaker LAST and then powering the circuit. Test with a 3-color LED tester before plugging anything else in. You could be a short-timer if you get in over your head. Never work where the floor is damp or you are in direct contact with a conductive surface (i.e. - barefoot). For extra safety, insulate the shaft of your screwdriver by wrapping it completely to within about 1/2 inch of the end with a good-quality electrical tape.

Get someone at the Home Depot to instruct you in how to properly terminate receptacles if you are unsure. It's not hard, but must be done correctly.

Model railroading gives you the opportunity to learn about a whole bunch of neat and useful things. I like model railroading because it keeps me in practice with what I call "saleable skills", things that can be used to make a living or save money if you know how to properly use them. But, safety is the first priority. When in doubt, get an experienced person to instruct you until you can demonstrate proficiency in the skill. Electricity can be unforgiving.

Mark C.

10-4 on that, I was telling Eddie that we could run the BLACK to each leg and the white and bare to the neutral bus bar. That would give us 120v for light and 120v for power. My only worry was the safety of that set-up. I guess I could put a GFCI at the key dulex outlets in case of a "WET HAND problem".

[jwar]

Before setting in light swiches figure the height of the layout. The GFCIs sound like a good idea as I did the same. As mcouvillon suggest above Stay on the side of saftey first, and check your local building codes. ...John

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwar

Before setting in light swiches figure the height of the layout. The GFCIs sound like a good idea as I did the same. As mcouvillon suggest above Stay on the side of saftey first, and check your local building codes. ...John

In Aiken as long as it is in your house they do not care. I am using NEC to set this up. THe local still has KNOB AND TUBE wiring in it. LAyout LOW height (bench) 36" High bench is 54". I have a work bench planned under that area. The biggy is still using the 2 pole breaker for (2) 120v circuits. It is allowed but I am still thinking of a sub panel box with 2 15 amp circuits using the 30 amp as the feeding main for it. The incoming is 480/240 3 phase 400 amp. The house panel is normal 200 amp service with my shops at 3 phase..

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwar

Before setting in light swiches figure the height of the layout. The GFCIs sound like a good idea as I did the same. As mcouvillon suggest above Stay on the side of saftey first, and check your local building codes. ...John

In Aiken as long as it is in your house they do not care. I am using NEC to set this up. THe local still has KNOB AND TUBE wiring in it. LAyout LOW height (bench) 36" High bench is 54". I have a work bench planned under that area. The biggy is still using the 2 pole breaker for (2) 120v circuits. It is allowed but I am still thinking of a sub panel box with 2 15 amp circuits using the 30 amp as the feeding main for it. The incoming is 480/240 3 phase 400 amp. The house panel is normal 200 amp service with my shops at 3 phase..

They may not care, but your insurance company will care a lot. If you have an electrical fire and they can blame your wiring they may deny your claim if you did not have it inspected.
Enjoy
Paul

[claycts]

Good Point!

[Seamonster]

As someone who worked for an electrical power utility before retiring, the tone of your first message sent a chill up my back. I can only emphasize what mcouvillion said: if you don't know what you're doing, stay the heck out of the electrical panel. If you do it wrong, you could hurt or kill yourself or set your house on fire. And what ironrooster said is true--when I wired my basement I was told that if my work started a fire and I didn't have a permit, my insurance company wouldn't pay out. I got the permit and had it inspected and approved. Please hire an electrician to do the work and get a permit. I'm sorry about the harsh words, but I've had over 30 years of electrical safety pounded into me by my former employer and it's a sensitive issue with me. Electricity is dangerous stuff if not treated properly and knowlegably, and I don't want to see anyone hurt.
...Bob

[Anonymous]

Yo Clayts,

I'm with Bob on this...Hire someone.

[cacole]

I wholeheartedly agree with the people who have advised you to keep your hands out of the circuit box if you are not a trained electrician, and go hire someone who knows what they are doing. You will invalidate your fire insurance if you try to do it yourself and subsequently have an electrical fire. Worse than that, you can electrocute yourself, and your life insurance policy, if you have one, will be null and void.

[mcouvillion]

claycts,

My mom's house is near 100 years old and has knob and tube wiring. That old stuff is scary. The wire is brittle and small, the insulation is cloth, and it is all the same color - dirty black! And no ground!!!! Stay on the safe side and get an electrician to look at it.

Mark C.

[claycts]

Thanks folks, I got a Master E.E. to look at the tota; design and loads and he found me a elecrician that understands BUDGET.

[leonardbrand]

Amen to ever thing all ready said, I have over thirty years experience and when I went to change out the light fixture on my front porch,turned off the switch indoors to the light and after droping the fixture down and undoing the wire ( which was taped being careful not to touch them) got my trusty meter and dicovered that the hot was still hot, The yahoo's who wired this house back around world war two, broke the nutuals not the hots with the switches, So take nothing for granted.

[jkeaton]

Amen to that. My current house, wired in the 1960s, has more than half the receptacles wired backwards. As I replace the worn-out or just failed receptacles, I wire 'em back the right way. Boy, were cheap 1960s receptacles ever cheap - some of these literally faell apart as I unscrewed them.

Jim