I think the earth berm issue might be due to the age of the refinery. For example one can see earth berms at this now shut down refinery at Bloomfield NM. I'm not sure but this may have been built in the 1970s or so.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6976974,-107.9742332,180m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
It looks like some pipes go through the berms.
Nearby is an even older abandoned refinery. Might have been built in the 1950s or earlier.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7039747,-108.0904999,193m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
It looks like one can see remnants of earth berms.
One never thinks of molasses when thinking of these giant tanks. Wonder if that was a related rail industry at that time. hgbatsf. You could always put a berm around all the tanks instead of individually. Give the illusion of leak control that way.
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
wrench567 For a real interesting subject that was the catalyst for modern day tank storage design and safety rules Google Boston molasses disaster. Although it's been many years, some people still smell molasses on hot humid days. Pete.
For a real interesting subject that was the catalyst for modern day tank storage design and safety rules Google Boston molasses disaster. Although it's been many years, some people still smell molasses on hot humid days.
Pete.
Very interesting story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood
Rick
PennsyLou As a ChemE who designed refineries and petrochemical facilities for 40 years, I can comment on tank farm design. There is usually a single inlet/outlet - there would be bypass piping around the pump to allow liquid to be pumped IN to the tank, the associated pump being used to pump OUT. Piping through a berm and running at grade would not be typical. The "berm" would be a low concrete wall, and the area inside the berm would also be concrete. An earthen berm and floor as shown is obviously permeable and would result in serious environmental contamination (to groundwater etc.) if the tank leaked or failed, containment being the purpose of the berm. The piping to/from the tank would run vertically upward and then join a "piperack" running alongside the line of tanks and pumps - a steel structure typically about 15 feet above grade though it could be lower. Piping running on the ground is not only a safety hazard but also takes up valuable real estate, blocks access pathways to fight fires, etc. [Edit - It is possible that the Walther's picture is accurate for some installation, somewhere - however I have seen and designed hundreds of facilities on 6 contenents and have never seen a tank farm that looked like that - though I've seen one that was a bit similar in El Salvador (though the tank farm also had "missile catchers" to shield the tanks from the guerillas in the jungle)]
As a ChemE who designed refineries and petrochemical facilities for 40 years, I can comment on tank farm design. There is usually a single inlet/outlet - there would be bypass piping around the pump to allow liquid to be pumped IN to the tank, the associated pump being used to pump OUT. Piping through a berm and running at grade would not be typical. The "berm" would be a low concrete wall, and the area inside the berm would also be concrete. An earthen berm and floor as shown is obviously permeable and would result in serious environmental contamination (to groundwater etc.) if the tank leaked or failed, containment being the purpose of the berm. The piping to/from the tank would run vertically upward and then join a "piperack" running alongside the line of tanks and pumps - a steel structure typically about 15 feet above grade though it could be lower. Piping running on the ground is not only a safety hazard but also takes up valuable real estate, blocks access pathways to fight fires, etc.
[Edit - It is possible that the Walther's picture is accurate for some installation, somewhere - however I have seen and designed hundreds of facilities on 6 contenents and have never seen a tank farm that looked like that - though I've seen one that was a bit similar in El Salvador (though the tank farm also had "missile catchers" to shield the tanks from the guerillas in the jungle)]
Great info. You put that up as I was typing that I was thinking about leaving the berms out. I guess a better solution would be a concrete berm to take up less space.
NVSRR The pipe the fills the tank can be reversed to empty it as well. When I did work on the Philadelphia airport fuel tank farm, the pipes went over the berms. Which makes sense. Don't want any path for the contents to find a way through and get free defeating the purpose of the berm. To do the thru berm, put the pipe in before scenery work. Cut the pipe to fit snug against the berm. When the scenery is applied it will hide what small gap is there between berm and pipe shane
The pipe the fills the tank can be reversed to empty it as well. When I did work on the Philadelphia airport fuel tank farm, the pipes went over the berms. Which makes sense. Don't want any path for the contents to find a way through and get free defeating the purpose of the berm. To do the thru berm, put the pipe in before scenery work. Cut the pipe to fit snug against the berm. When the scenery is applied it will hide what small gap is there between berm and pipe
shane
Thanks, Shane. For many of my tanks using one pipe will simplify things. I have a couple where I will need to run two but that will be easy. If I use the berms I will go over them but I may use artistic license and leave them out to save space.
[Edit - It is possible that the Walther's picture is accurate for some installation, somewhere - however I have seen and designed hundreds of facilities on 6 contenents and have never seen a tank farm that looked like that - though I've seen one that was a bit similar in El Salvador (though the tank farm also had "missile catchers" to shield the tanks from RPG fire from the guerillas in the jungle)]
Got it. Thanks.
That's okay, Rick - neither do I.
Using the URL you were trying to post as an example, hopefully this will clear things up and display the code properly...
(url)https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/261209.aspx(/url)
Replace the parentheses with brackets and you're golden.
The front slash in front of the 2nd bracketed url is important, as it tells the software that that completes the command.
FYI: The link icon works fine for any link(s) outside of the MR forum. For threads inside the forum you have to use the above workaround.
HTH,
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage You're welcome, Rick. FYI to you and others: The forum software isn't what it used to be. To create a working link to another thread in the MR forum, add a bracketed "url" and "/url" on each end of the link - minus the quotation marks. Tom
You're welcome, Rick.
FYI to you and others: The forum software isn't what it used to be. To create a working link to another thread in the MR forum, add a bracketed "url" and "/url" on each end of the link - minus the quotation marks.
Tom, I don't know computer code. I did try using the button to insert link. Are you saying to put [url.....url] inside that dialog box?
Thanks, Tom.
MR thread link now clickable:
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/261209.aspx
I have finally finished the sub-assemblies and am ready to complete my refinery scene. An area I need some info on are the details of the storage facility.
I have several of these kits:
In the picture it appears that the piping goes through the berm. If anyone has done that can you share how?
Also, pictures that I have found of modeled scenes show one pipe going into the tank. That is also how the Walthers instructions say to set it up. Wouldn't each tank need at least two pipes - one to fill and the other to empty?
BTW - I have been working on this a long time. The first thread that I started on this board was on the refinery. https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/261209.aspx At that point I had been working on it on and off for 15 years.
Edit: I don't know why inserting the link to the old thread doesn't work. Sorry.