Hello!
I am building my first real layout with scenery, buildings, etc. I have built several "train boards" with my son over the years, but I am finally getting down to it!
I just finished reading Cody Grivno's "Tips for successful ballasting" article. I have just completed my track and wiring and am now ready for the ballast. I have about 120 feet of HO track. My question is: How much do I need? I am planning on using Arizona Rock and Mineral's 1052 LBS PENNSYLVANIA GRAY HO Scale Ballast as my railroad is the Pennsylvania Railroad or Woodland Scenics Gray Medium Ballast.
Thanks!
There are too many "it depends" to give you an accurate answer. Just buy what you think you need, and if that's not enough, order some more.
Joe
Personally I like the WS ballest better, to me real rock looks out of scale as far as color, Some don't like it because they say it floats but properly done it dose not (if it is floating you have not used enough wet water). I use matt medium for the glue because a lot of our ways of doing scenery involve water and the matt is water resistant to quite a degree but not water proof, maybe because the way we use it it is deluted. I can say that with confidece as I salvaged most of my turnouts from a previus layout and had to remove the ballast.
As far as your main question, depends on the scale (I know, HO in this case) and how wide you make the shoulders are.
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As others stated, there is no magic formula for how much you need. I build my roadbed high, so I need more ballast that others that just use a thin layer.
I hate Woodland Scenics "ballast" material. It is too light, too uniform, and too difficult to sculpt to a good profile.
I use Arizona Rock And Mineral and am quite happy with it.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
I hope to see you around here a lot more.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I use Scenic Express Ballast which is real rock. It comes in various shades of gray. I used to use Woodland Scenics but shifted to Scenic Express. Start out by buying a small quantity and put it down to your satisfaction over a 1 foot or 3 foot length. Calculate how much you used and then extrapolate how much you need to cover the track on your entire layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
I use Woodland Scenics ballast, and I'm happy with it. My layout is on the order of 100 square feet with a lot of track.
I think I'm on my third big jar of ballast. Don't worry. Buy one jar, and if you run out, buy another. It's cheap.
When you're ready, ask for ballasting techniques, too. We'll be happy to help out.
And,
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Wayne_PRR Hello! I am building my first real layout with scenery, buildings, etc. I have built several "train boards" with my son over the years, but I am finally getting down to it! I just finished reading Cody Grivno's "Tips for successful ballasting" article. I have just completed my track and wiring and am now ready for the ballast. I have about 120 feet of HO track. My question is: How much do I need? I am planning on using Arizona Rock and Mineral's 1052 LBS PENNSYLVANIA GRAY HO Scale Ballast as my railroad is the Pennsylvania Railroad or Woodland Scenics Gray Medium Ballast. Thanks!
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
NVSRR !I am building my first real layout with scenery, buildings, etc. I have built several "train boards" with my son over the years, but I am finally getting down to it! I just finished reading Cody Grivno's "Tips for successful ballasting" article. I have just completed my track and wiring and am now ready for the ballast. I have about 120 feet of HO track. My question is: How much do I need? I am planning on using Arizona Rock and Mineral's 1052 LBS PENNSYLVANIA GRAY HO Scale Ballast as my railroad is the Pennsylvania Railroad or Woodland Scenics Gray Medium Ballast. Thanks! Wayne_PRR Hello! I am building my first real layout with scenery, buildings, etc. I have built several "train boards" with my son over the years, but I am finally getting down to it! I just finished reading Cody Grivno's "Tips for successful ballasting" article. I have just completed my track and wiring and am now ready for the ballast. I have about 120 feet of HO track.
!I am building my first real layout with scenery, buildings, etc. I have built several "train boards" with my son over the years, but I am finally getting down to it!
Wayne_PRR Hello! I am building my first real layout with scenery, buildings, etc. I have built several "train boards" with my son over the years, but I am finally getting down to it! I just finished reading Cody Grivno's "Tips for successful ballasting" article. I have just completed my track and wiring and am now ready for the ballast. I have about 120 feet of HO track.
I just finished reading Cody Grivno's "Tips for successful ballasting" article. I have just completed my track and wiring and am now ready for the ballast. I have about 120 feet of HO track.
ound. Add one pound. That should give you a very close approximation of what is needed based on how you are doing your ballasting.
shane
Hello, Shane,
Your post got truncated. Only the very end showed up. Could you repeat your reply?
I've used both Woodland Scenics ballast and also real rock ballast, sieved in a variety of colours and sizes...
Wayne
Try this again. The forum softwar e doesnt want me putting up this old formula.
to figure out ballast needed this was given to me years ago.
Start with five pounds of ballast. spread that out. measure the linear feet covered by that ballast. divide that by 5. that is the feet per pound.
Now measure up the remaining amount of track to be ballasted. Divide that by the feet per pound number to get the number of pounds.
then add one pound for extra. That should give you an idea pretty close to what you need.
Ballast can be shallow, deep, nonexistent or thin. depends on what you are modling. No matter the planning, ballast is one of those that is difficult to plan exactly how much is needed at the start. just a rough number.
Shane
My preference is Arizona Rock & Mineral, I also like integrating their rock powders and smaller ballast for various effects. Been awhile, but if I recall correctly ARM's website had a ballast estimator.
Used to be one could obtain samples from various Mfg., even free, maybe still possible? Nice for doing mock-ups, some ballast can darken considerably, and even change hue after being glued. Worth experimenting in my book, as in the end you're 'stuck' with your ballast choice.
Scale size really matters when it comes to close-up layout photography. In retrospect wish I'd gone with N ballast for my switching layout, or maybe better yet, a blend of HO & N.
My suggestion would be to buy all the ballast you'll need, and then some. Before all my track work was complete ARM discontinued the color I chose. Man, was I bummed! Regardless of prototype practice of changing ballast I prefer my ballast all the same base color.
Happy ballasting and have fun. Regards, Peter
In spite of the price, I use Woodland Scenics ballast because I can buy it from a local store. I get the finest available (for an HO layout) and the lightest color.
The color uniformity works in my favor, because in studying ballast at a normal viewing distaince on local railroads, I realized that what at first appeared to be color variations in the stone was actually shadows. Real ballast is large enough to cast shadows, which are not well represented by color blends.
Instead, I use brown and gray color washes on the ballast after it's laid, and when the washes settle in and dry it looks much more realistic to me.
I think the ballast blends have too much of a salt and pepper look, because the colors need to be more extreme to be noticeable in the small sizes.
The same "color" effect can occur when the ballast is wet, because it won't dry evenly on all sides at the same time.
Dr. Wayne's photos say alot. Notice the figure standing in the three pictures. The top one shows ballast that to my eye looks way too large. The PRR used 4 inch minus ballast for their well groomed mainlines in the steam era. Branch lines, sidings, spurs, and yards if ballasted regularly got whatever was cheaper. Cinders, and steel mill slag was common in areas with foot traffic to cut down on tripping hazards.
When I built my modules. I painted the roadbed a natural dirt color for the area I was modeling. In my case it was sand. On my yard and industrial siding was ballasted with real screened sand from work. Only the mainlines got real ballast. Changing size and colors gives the illusion of maintenance freshly done or sections needing renewal.
Pete.
Where I live ballast is about 1 1/2" crushed granite.
Wayne_PRRHello, Shane, Your post got truncated. Only the very end showed up. Could you repeat your reply? Thanks!
Sometimes the forum gets glitchy.
It is kind of like owning a BMW. You never know what the daily glitch might be.
HO-VeloMy suggestion would be to buy all the ballast you'll need, and then some.
This is also my suggestion always and exactly!
My ballast stockpile:
Losing the ability to buy something you need is a terrible roadblock against progress.
Ballast.
I have more than I actually need. I have different shades and sizes - HO/OO and N.
Sometimes I mix the shades, sometimes not. A length of 'new ballast' just like the real, I like.
It is known here on this Forum I do not glue down the ballast. If I decide to alter or renew track it is such a simple procedure. Release the track pins and track, gently clear away the ballast. Then relay and re-ballast.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
All!
Thanks so much for your replies! Even though I didn't get a precise answer (as there is none!), all of your comments, suggestions, and pictures have been a real help. Looks like I am going to the hobby shop and coming home with a variety.
Before I started laying any track, I got a 4' by 8" board and put down practice track to see how it worked. I used that board to learn soldering the rails. Now, I will use that to learn how to put down ballast.
Thanks, again! Wayne
I always test the tracks by running trains for several days or weeks after wiring them. This allows for remedial fixes, but also for the layout, itself, to settle, change with temps and humidity, and to find a happy medium in my controlled train room (I operate a dehumifier year-round, although surprising, not during the summer unless humidity obviously climbs and is sustained for a while).
Once I decide to ballast, with regular cork roadbed below the tracks, I find I need about a third of a cup of ballast per three-foot length of flex, sometimes more if there are steep gullies outboard of the ballast. So, for your purposes, you should count on about 30-40 cups of the ballast.
You'll want some left over for eventual repairs, unless you don't mind different colours and textures of ballast...much like the prototype doesn't mind if it is acceptable for engineering and operational purposes.
BTW, unless you're really stuck on a certain colour, there's nothing wrong with the sharp sand bags at HD or other hardware supplies. Playground sand is literally dirt cheap. You'll want to sift it through regular window screen to get the correct size of ballast pieces, but you can use the rest for fill on the terrain or in gondolas...lots of other uses. Nothing wasted.
For my ballast, I use Arizona Rock & Mineral as well as they have the exact color that my prototype road used. (I've ended up having a bunch of bags as when I think I need them, I couldn't find them. However, I now have them where I can find them.)
I do something a little different than most when it comes to turnouts and any track that goes over a joint. I put a layer of Duck tape on the bottom and then press the ballast into that. For turnouts, I make sure that I cut the tape clear of the turnout bar so that it will work freely, Doing it that that way makes sure that I don't over load the throw area of the turnout and it allows the turnouts and the joint tracks to "float." Especially on joints it makes it a lot easier to put things together after a move. (There are componets on my current layout that have moved once already without a reassembly problem and I hope they never move again. I also have a section that was originally designed to be portable that has three track lines that are on a joint. Having that makes it simple to get everything realigned.)
As for glueing the ballast down, I use something simple. Carefully dose the ballast with isopropyl alcohol. (The 70% works just fine.) Doing that makes sure that the glue goes all the way through and doesn't just glue the surface of the ballast. I then use a roughly 50-50 mix of Elmer's Glue All and water for the glue. I apply both liquids with tie dye bottles. (Got a few sets cheap on clearance from a local retailer.) With the alcohol already onboard the glue seaps through nicely. (Doesn't wotk well going the other way.)
FRRYKid For my ballast, I use Arizona Rock & Mineral as well as they have the exact color that my prototype road used. (I've ended up having a bunch of bags as when I think I need them, I couldn't find them. However, I now have them where I can find them.) I do something a little different than most when it comes to turnouts and any track that goes over a joint. I put a layer of Duck tape on the bottom and then press the ballast into that. For turnouts, I make sure that I cut the tape clear of the turnout bar so that it will work freely, Doing it that that way makes sure that I don't over load the throw area of the turnout and it allows the turnouts and the joint tracks to "float." Especially on joints it makes it a lot easier to put things together after a move. (There are componets on my current layout that have moved once already without a reassembly problem and I hope they never move again. I also have a section that was originally designed to be portable that has three track lines that are on a joint. Having that makes it simple to get everything realigned.) As for glueing the ballast down, I use something simple. Carefully dose the ballast with isopropyl alcohol. (The 70% works just fine.) Doing that makes sure that the glue goes all the way through and doesn't just glue the surface of the ballast. I then use a roughly 50-50 mix of Elmer's Glue All and water for the glue. I apply both liquids with tie dye bottles. (Got a few sets cheap on clearance from a local retailer.) With the alcohol already onboard the glue seaps through nicely. (Doesn't wotk well going the other way.)
that is actually a good idea using tape on the underside of the ties. Especially for a beginner or somebody who has trouble with ballasting and glues.
Even though I use matt medium for ballast, I do use full strength white glue around the moving parts of a turnout. I paint the white glue in the space between the ties next to the throw bar and paint a space around the thow end far enough to allow full movement of the throw and then add the ballast, let dry and then valcum and then do the rest of the ballasting.
Wayne_PRR Looks like I am going to the hobby shop and coming home with a variety.
If you decideon Arizona Rock & Mineral... keep this in mind...
Since the product is made from real stone, there will be a colour variation from bag to bag, and lot to lot. When I made the ballast for SGRR #2, I mixed up over half of a five gallon busket of ballast from dozens of bags to guarantee consistency across the layout.
I made way too much, and used the excess as beach covering for several wargames project over the years.
I used the last of it as beach prop sand for photo scenes.
It was a great color for ballast on a freelanced railroad.
Nothing wrong with over-buying a bit to avoid paying shipping twice. I'd get two large shaker containers of ballast. You not only want to cover the track but also the cork roadbed.
Do you have sidings and/or a yard? You might consider a different shade of gray. Plenty of folks (me included) use two different shades. Nothing wrong with using only one shade.
Google "ho ballast coverage area". Lots of info. Two items were 1 oz per foot, and Selector estimated 1 cup per 6 ft. A 9 oz bag of AR@M should do about 9 ft.So about 13 bags would do it, I would order 2-3 more just to be sure. At about $6 a pop that would be $96 plus shipping. A number of other articles are there to read so as to gain more information.