My next scratch-built structure will be an HO scale, interlocking tower (brick) with a flat roof. (This is not the same PRR tower that Walthers is coming out with soon.) My tower is only about 16 x 22 ft. in outside dimensions.Anyway, though I have drawings, they don't include any details for the top of the flat roof. There is a downspout that exits the wall on one side, near the top of the building, from some kind of housing, and runs down the side of the building. I spoke with an architect friend at church, and he says likely whatever the surface, for drainage, there would be a slight grade to one side (about 2% and probably not noticeable in HO) and a scupper.I have looked on the Internet, but photos and details are for much larger buidlings. I note that there are HO scuppers available on Shapeways. I woulld like to detail the top of the roof and the housing for the downspout on the side of the building. Is the scupper a square or round box on top of the roof where the rainwater or melted snow drains into to get to the downspount? Or is this all one assembly that runs from the top of the roof to the downspout? Any photos would be appreciated.
I think I got it figured out. I found this product on shapeways developed by a friend of fellow model railroader Seth Neuman.
Array of 25 Drain Scuppers (EY88B6ASL) by SethNeumann (shapeways.com)
I also found this diagram. Scroll down the page and see the small square roof illustration titled "scupper drains"
Guide to Flat Roof Drainage Systems for Disposing of Roof Runoff (inspectapedia.com)
I'll just make a square hole in the inside of he paraphet wall and attach the casting on the outside of the wall. From there, I'll add a downspout.
It's quite possible that there are/were no scuppers on the prototype. The need for scuppers wasn't something realized for many years. While it's now part almost all building codes, that wasn't always true. Buildings from the steam era wouldn't necessarily have them, especially for something as small as an interlocking tower.
Danial
Ok, granted the drawings may show a later application, but you had a flat wall surrounded by a paraphet wall. Surely, there had to be some way to drain the water or melted snow. Incidentally, my structure was built in the WWII period.
I've built a lot of flat roofed kits with brick walls. One thing I've done to greatly improve the roof appearance is to use styrene brick sheet and build up the insides of the parapets. Most kits just leave the insides of the walls blank, but adding this detail greatly improves the roof modeling, which is, after all, far more visible in our models than in real life. I just cut brick strips 3 bricks high, paint them and mortar the brick like the outside walls, and glue them on.
For my roof surfaces, I use thin foam board. I paint it with Rustoleum textured speckled black spray
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Made my'scuppers' aka 'conductor head', with scrap styrene, but those from Shapeways sure look nice.
Regards, Peter
It was always a 'fire drill' when during a rain storm, a customer would call saying ''hey, it's been raining and there is no water running out of the down spout". Off we go with a ladder, boots and a stick. Removed anything from balls, shoes, squabs, bottles and cans.
Either a roof drain going down cast iron pipe through the inside of the building so as not to freeze, then exit at the street level or into the under ground public storm water system or the side parapet wall drain going down the outside of the building mostly ran through threaded steel pipe, sheet metal spouting or cast iron something or other. A lot of industry had a cast iron riser at the street level to protect the sheet metal spouting. Some had the down spout missing. This first picture shows what looks like a copper collector with the down spout missing.
The second picture shows a branch going off to the right side roof. An edition was built on top of the left side roof and the branch was extended farther to the right.
I used the shapeways scuppers. Paint the inside black and the outside a patina copper. stuck it on the building at roof height. I didnt bother with holes through the wall. dont notice that anyway. Used a styrene tube (could also use a rod) to replicate the down spout. nothing fancy.
To answer the question round or square, Its both. depends on the architect design raeally. Generally they are square. Like the shapeways one. Basically they are a funnel. so think of funnel shape and what that consists of. A scupper is exactly the same. Its a three sided funnel on buildings. You could even take a square styrene stock and cut it to length to represent an enclosed scupper. A little sanding to put the bottem taper in. and there you go.
Shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Thanks Folks. I think the scratchbuilt scuppers look great in your photo Peter. Mister Beasly, when I scratchbuild brick structures I go to the trouble of adding brick strips inside the window and door edges too. On the newest structure, the turrets atop the paraphet wall will have brick on the backside too. I was thinking of putting a square hole on the inside where the scupper gets its inflow.
wabash2800I was thinking of putting a square hole on the inside where the scupper gets its inflow.
I would definitely add that detail. You could even add some built up debris like brown leaves and perhaps a bit of garbage right in front of the hole in the wall.
Not quite related to the OP's request, but when I worked for Sears Canada as a manager we would go onto the flat roofs after a heavy rain to see that the drains (internal in this case) were functioning. However, if a drain was clogged with leaves or other debris (pork chop bones and other garbage was not unusual thanks to the seagulls), you only cleared enough of the debris to get the flow barely started. If you cleaned everything away from the drain, the sudden heavy flow of water down the drain pipes could cause the pipes to leak at the joints where the pipes followed the support columns down through the building. That could lead to some serious flooding inside the store because once the flow was started, there was very little that you could do to shut it off!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
wabash2800 Ok, granted the drawings may show a later application, but you had a flat wall surrounded by a paraphet wall. Surely, there had to be some way to drain the water or melted snow. Incidentally, my structure was built in the WWII period.
While it's hard to find the history of scuppers moving from ships to buildings, apparently a gargoyle is not a gargoyle unless it is also a roof drain from a scupper.
Thanks Dave. I am also finding photos of the sqaure holes being reinforced with metal and/or patched material.
wabash2800 Thanks Dave. I am also finding photos of the sqaure holes being reinforced with metal and/or patched material.
If you are talking about the square holes though the wall, yes a piece of metal sheeting (galvanized or copper) would fit in the hole (top, bottom and both sides) in the wall so no water would leak though the wall brick or block work and run inside the wall.
Not all the holes in the wall are visible from the street as with these two pictures below.
Both of these pictures below are on one story buildings.
Well the way it is raining here now (south central Pa.), your conductor heads better not be clogged up or you will be sitting below a swimming pool.
A little more information from a Lyon, Conklin & Co. Inc. Baltimore - Washington Supply catalog circa 1927.
And one picture of two Flat Roof Drains somwhere around the year 1925, sooner or later.
The Scupper is the hole though the side wall to drain water from a flat roof with raised walls higher then the roof. This hole would be lined with sheet metal being folded over the outer wall's brick/block work with the bottom fold going into the Conductor.
Then next the Conductor (the box thing) was fasten to the wall, then the Conductor pipe went down to the ground level.