A little bit ago someone posted here that they felt we were overbuilding our bench work.
My n scale benchwork was built using 1'X3"common white board with 2"x2" furring strips as legs...inexpensive, but you have to cherry pick your pieces in order to get straight pieces.
I let the lumber aclimate to the basement for 6 months...6 impatient months, then coated them with a floor grade poly that I mixed a 2 part walnut and one part cherry wood stain into. This was all material we had left after building our house (ourselves!) The stain and poly were left over from building a dual trestle table out of red oak for the dining room...good size, seats 14 with ease and weighs a ton!
I used Titebond wood glue and countersunk #8 2 inch wood screws to hold things together. The stringers were set 16"oc.
For the top, I used Dow solid poly insulation boards, 1 and 1/2 inch, and appropriate adhesive, let that cure for 48 hours.
The bench work is quite sturdy. I think our op on overbuilding may be on to something.
I built a 4'x8' nscale layout using four 8 foot long 1"x2" pine to support a 4x8 2" thick foam board. The result is not strong enough for me to stand on, but it is plenty strong enough not to sag. The facia I glued to the edges also provides depth and therefore strength. Prior to adding plaster scenery, the whole layout weighed about 25lbs. (11 Kg.).
You can see images of my benchwork here: https://nscale4by8.github.io/nscale4x8/benchwork/benchwork.html
https://nscale4by8.github.io/nscale4x8/
Looks like an interesting track plan, so I hope that you'll keep us up-to-date as your layout progresses.
Wayne
One of the reasons to go 1x4 is they are more common and you usssually get a better selection.
Better to overbuild rather than the opposite. Benchwork that eventually twists, sags, or fails in any other way will forever be a source of frustration and regret.
Anything is possible, but curious if anyone experienced benchwork that sags or bends over time.
The original section of my HO layout was 5x12 feet. It was built with a 1x4 frame using 1x3 crosspieces. The subroadbed was 2 inch pink foam. It was simple and worked very well. I stained and polyurethaned the outer wood surfaces and that provided a suitable fascia. I used 2x3 lumber for the first legs, reducing that to 2x2 for subsequent sections.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Cabinet grade 3/4" birch plywood, ripped to "1x4 dimentions" was the base for my current and previous layout framing. Desipte being garage-stored in unfriendly climates for several years, it has remained straight and true. For shorter spans, I used similar grade pine plywood.
Back in the day, the cost was about the same as high-grade stick lumber; not sure about this now.
Jim
The track plan is my variation of the famous Atlas Granite Gorge & Northern. https://nscale4by8.github.io/nscale4x8/plan/plan.html
- The adapted plan can be configured as a double track figure eight with two trains running in opposite directions.
- The adapted plan enables local switching operations on sidings while other trains run continuously.
- The adapted plan can be configured as a twisted dog-bone that crosses the river six times before traveling over the same segment of rail twice.
- The adapted plan provides two variants of out-and-back originating either direction from the industries along the river.
The layout is quite far along these days. There are lots of sections to the web site with lots of pictures. My primary interest in the hobby is scenery and structures. I design and 3d print most structures and all of the lift bridges.
kasskaboose Anything is possible, but curious if anyone experienced benchwork that sags or bends over time.
I did years ago. I had a 10 foot span using 10 foot long 1x4's. The sag was slight but noticeable. I added a leg in the middle which solved the problem. I now limit my spans to 8 foot using 1x4's.
Paul
IRONROOSTER kasskaboose Anything is possible, but curious if anyone experienced benchwork that sags or bends over time. I did years ago. I had a 10 foot span using 10 foot long 1x4's. The sag was slight but noticeable. I added a leg in the middle which solved the problem. I now limit my spans to 8 foot using 1x4's. Paul
Was the 1X4 just a 1X4, or was it constructed like an L-girder?
FWIW I've adapted the construction specs from the NMRA HO module construction specs. 1x4 for the frame and 2x2 for the legs. (Finding straight 2x2 is always a task.) Instead of the 1/4 hex bolts specified for the legs, I have 3/8" diameter furniture levelers. (The current layout was originally built in a room that was badly out of level and I needed the bolt length to get the layout level.) One piece of my lake section is an old module from when I was in a club over 30 years ago with the new levelers installed. (Yes some of the sections and parts of sections are that old or older.) The tops are mostly plywood of various grades and thickness. Two section tops however are hollow core closet doors that are older than I am.
Even on the old section, i have found no sagging.
kasskabooseAnything is possible, but curious if anyone experienced benchwork that sags or bends over time.
My friend Randy's N scale Norfolk Southern layout developed a peak in the yard middle over a decade after being built.
It was easily fixed.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I live in southern California where it is almost impossible to find decent dimensional lumber. Even the kiln dried stuff you have to sort through to find a few straight pieces turns to pretzels by the time you get it home! I prefer to rip sheets of cabinet grade plywood into the benchwork framing pieces I need. Good plywood is far more stable and actually stronger than dimensional lumber. My current 10' by 19' double deck HO scale layout benchwork is all constructed from 1/2" plywood. The only dimensional lumber I used was several kiln dried 2x4's I carefully picked out, let sit for a few weeks, then gradually ripped down to a true 3" width using a 4' long rip fence on my table saw. These 2x4's were then used to build a central backbone wall from which I double-cantilevered my peninsula decks. Fortunately, these 2x4's have all remained straight over the last 15 years. The 2x4's that didn't make the cut for the backbone wall were cut up into 2x2 glue blocks used to reinforce the joints in the plywood benchwork. These allowed me to quickly erect the benchwork using wood glue and 18 gauge wire brads. The layout decks are only 3/16" plywood with supports every 16". No warping, no sagging, and the benchwork will easily stand up to someone falling and catching themself on the edge of the layout. Of course, they might not survive my wrath for their clumsiness!!!
Hornblower
maxman IRONROOSTER kasskaboose Anything is possible, but curious if anyone experienced benchwork that sags or bends over time. I did years ago. I had a 10 foot span using 10 foot long 1x4's. The sag was slight but noticeable. I added a leg in the middle which solved the problem. I now limit my spans to 8 foot using 1x4's. Paul Was the 1X4 just a 1X4, or was it constructed like an L-girder?
It was not an L-girder, just plain 1x4's. I don't use L-girder since I use the underneath of the layout for other things. In this case I had bookcases underneath.
I used four of these primed 1x2s glued under 2" foam:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Trim-Board-Primed-Finger-Joint-Common-1-in-x-2-in-x-8-ft-Actual-719-in-x-1-5-in-x-96-in-347154/202085978
Foam:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/GreenGuard-GreenGuard-LG-2-X4-X-8-XPS-Insulation-Board/5001939777
The whole thing is supported by two chests of drawers that are positioned about a quarter of the way in from each end.
I can load the layout down with weights and do not see sagging. Everything stays nice and level. The combination of 2" foam and 2" wood glued together is strong.
When I built this benchwork, it was open grid. 1"x3" can warp eventually so I added blocks between the 16" on centers so that stringers were attached at the perimeter but were blocked in the center.
That has the effect of adding a third joist amidships and should go a long way towards eliminating warping. It also adds quite a bit more strength. Time will tell.
With the 1 and 1/2 inch extruded hard foam, I can lean on the top with no problem, but I would not try to walk on it! It seems to be very sturdy and a lot lighter than ply.
hardcoalcase Cabinet grade 3/4" birch plywood, ripped to "1x4 dimentions" was the base for my current and previous layout framing. Back in the day, the cost was about the same as high-grade stick lumber; not sure about this now. Jim
Cabinet grade 3/4" birch plywood, ripped to "1x4 dimentions" was the base for my current and previous layout framing.
Back in the day, the cost was about the same as high-grade stick lumber; not sure about this now. Jim
Update - I was at the big-box home center yesterday and stopped by the lumber section. The cabinet grade 3/4" birch plywood was $84 per 4' x 8' sheet - which would yield 12 1x4 8 foot boards at $7 each.
The 8 foot "treated, appearance grade top choice" (this was the step below "perfect") 1x4s were $8.87 each.
So, at least per this sample, for both quality and cost, the high grade birch plywood is the better choice over stick lumber for building benchwork.
Your mileage may vary.
Treated lumber for benchwork? That seems odd to me.
hardcoalcaseThe 8 foot "treated, appearance grade top choice" (this was the step below "perfect") 1x4s were $8.87 each.
This sounds like pressure treated wood for outdoor use.
I wouldn't use this for a layout indoors. The treatment chemicals are hazardous.
That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't want to mess with that for benchwork. And it is more expensive anyhow.
I use 3/4" oak veneer plywood for my benchwork. I cut it into 3" wide strips, which gives me 15 strips, or 120 linear feet of lumber. Even though the plywood is expensive, it's a lot cheaper than 120' of halfway decent 1X4 pine.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I'm helping build a new layout and we are using 40mm x 20mm (= ex 2"x1") batten material (=furring strips) for all construction. Legs are two pieces to form an L girder. The actual L girders might be a bit light, not sure yet how far to span them, but if need be we can easily add another strip to make an L girder equivalent to 80mm x 20mm web plus a 40mm x 20mm flange.
Reason for using the battens is that they are inexpensive here, and straight.
Bagal
I built a 4x6 layout using L-girders made from totally from 1x2s. I turned the L-girder flange to the bottom instead of on top, then used 1x2s as the joists between the L-griders. Then cookie cutter plywood on top.
The L-grider is very good at preventing the 1x2 from warping.
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon in HO and HOn3, where it's always 1900....
My 1x3 benchwork is completed. I coated it with a polyethylene stain, two coats. The other thing I had done was to let it acclimate to my cellar for about 6 months,
laying it down on 2x4s with weights. It is all straight and true lumber, nice and dry. It's topped with 1 and 1/2 inch solid foam insulation. The legs are 2x2 with two cross braces and are set back about 6 inches so you won't hit them with your feet. The stringers (16" oc) are blocked to help prevent future warping, and add strength as a centerbeam. It is quite strong, though I would not want to walk on it!
The cat loves walking on the benchwork! And sleeping on it! I think she likes the pink solid foam color. She sllpes between the tracks. I still wouldn't want to walk on it myself.
For years I've been buying the best 3/4 Oak plywood I could find and ripping it into the widths I desired for various projects. Not only is it less expense it is also diminsionally stable and stronger than a 1x4. The Kreg tracksaw is my friend,..
-Mike in NC,
Years ago I used to build a lot of things using 1x4s since they were cheap. One spec that stuck in my mind was two 1x4's laminated together are more than twice as strong as a 2x4 for the same weight. For one special 5x40 table project (with 10 ft spans) I even searched out warped 1x4's to use as one part of the laminated support. Once glued and squared the table was assembled with two stringers. The table was solid and in the twenty plus years it was in use it was solid and never sagged.
Not sure if the link will work but I created this modular staging layout to run trains just for fun while I continue to build a much larger layout for a permanent space.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194659410@N08/52985382150/in/dateposted-public/
It's two 4'x6' 3/4 inch panels framed with 1x3's and stiffened with cross bracing. The use of 1x3's was intentional because they are lightweight for moving these panels around the basement into storage.
Though they could self support, it would be sketchy supporting weight or leaning on it, hence cork and trackwork are installed with it on the floor. When I'm running trains this will be set on top of my 40" X 12' long work bench.