I'm considering a lift-up section for a future around-the-walls switching layout. The new design in the Jan 2023 MR (page 57) looks intriguing to me! I'd like to read the opinions of the more experienced layout builders. What do you think of this design? Would you recommend it or do you have other suggestions to consider? Thank you for your advice!
If i had need for something like that I think I would prefer a drop down section.
IDRick I'm considering a lift-up section for a future around-the-walls switching layout. The new design in the Jan 2023 MR (page 57) looks intriguing to me! I'd like to read the opinions of the more experienced layout builders. What do you think of this design? Would you recommend it or do you have other suggestions to consider? Thank you for your advice!
I am still planning on a swinging gate, as was described in "another" publication a year or so ago.
A big strong gate that has upper and lower hinges and swings out of the way and then closes and latches to bridge the opening.
Either that or I will stay with simple lift outs.
The two places I need to be able to open require 5 tracks to cross.
The cabinet hinge idea is interesting but that "bridge" looked a little too flimsy to me?
Sheldon
Hey Maxman, thanks for the reply! Just curious, why do you prefer a drop-down? I'm thinking that the scenery on the lift-up will be better protected from damage than the scenery on a drop-down. I could be wrong... Just my guess
Thanks for the reply Sheldon. Was the swing gate you referred to a part of the Richlawn RR? If so, I found the link! I respect your skills in planning and doing construction. I agree, I thought lift-up in MR looked flimsy and needed reinforcing. I could use a swing gate but it would put more restrictions on gate location than a lift-up.
IDRick Thanks for the reply Sheldon. Was the swing gate you referred to a part of the Richlawn RR? If so, I found the link! I respect your skills in planning and doing construction. I agree, I thought lift-up in MR looked flimsy and needed reinforcing. I could use a swing gate but it would put more restrictions on gate location than a lift-up.
Very similar but I don't think it is the same one I saw. I made a note somewhere, but understand, I still get MR and "another" publication the old fashioned way from the mailman. I will find it.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL IDRick Thanks for the reply Sheldon. Was the swing gate you referred to a part of the Richlawn RR? If so, I found the link! I respect your skills in planning and doing construction. I agree, I thought lift-up in MR looked flimsy and needed reinforcing. I could use a swing gate but it would put more restrictions on gate location than a lift-up. Very similar but I don't think it is the same one I saw. I made a note somewhere, but understand, I still get MR and "another" publication the old fashioned way from the mailman. I will find it. Sheldon
Found it, June 2021. If you need more help let me know.
maxmanIf i had need for something like that I think I would prefer a drop down section.
I much prefer a drop down, too. In my case the lowered bridge tucks nicely into a slight alcove and is out of the way.
I installed my drop-section about 24 years ago and never regretted it.
DB_6 by Edmund, on Flickr
It is 42" long and there is no ceiling clearance for that length. The bridge is 50" above the floor here, at age 66 I can easily "limbo" under it but if I have some kind of cleaning or maintenance activity going on I'll drop it down.
One nice advantage for a drop down is the fact that the hinge can be under the deck and the track-arc swings away from the stationary piece. In my case I didn't want to have hinges on either side of the double track. I kept the bridge "channel" narrow on purpose. It is only 5-3/4" on the outside dimension. The bridge is skewed by 8.6°.
DB_8 by Edmund, on Flickr
The hinge is a very heavy commercial model with oilite bronze bushings in it. The opening end has 1/4" aluminum plate with indexing pins and leveling set screws and lock nuts. It spans a frame wall anchored to masonry block.
DB_3 by Edmund, on Flickr
I've only made one or two minor adjustments to it in the past 24 years. One thing I would have liked to do was solder the last inch or so of rail to PC board ties but I didn't do that at the time and, well, I'll see how the next couple dozen years go. It is always an option.
Good Luck, Ed
IDRick Hey Maxman, thanks for the reply! Just curious, why do you prefer a drop-down? I'm thinking that the scenery on the lift-up will be better protected from damage than the scenery on a drop-down. I could be wrong... Just my guess
Oh, I don’t know. Just a preference.
I would agree that in the up position the scenery on the top would be better protected, and the pathway would be wider by whatever the tallest item is on the top.
On the other hand any scenery on the top of a lift up would run into whatever scenery is on the top of the adjoining section of bench work. In addition a drop down section will stay down on its own power, while a lift up will require some sort of mechanical assistance to remain vertical.
Okay, Ed, I’ll bite. What does the door knob do?
If I'm holding a drink in my hand I like to stabilize myself as I duck under so I don't spill my drink
Well, that, and the contractor at GE ordered double doors where only single doors were specified. Those nice hinges and other hardware were going to be tossed. The stationary knob followed me home and it became a handy place to hang cords, dusters and anything with a lanyard hand strap, like the new Digitrax throttles.
You're not the first to ask so I guess that also qualifies it as a conversation piece
Cheers, Ed
Lift up or drop down often depends on the height of the layout and the length of the span and what's above it. If you have a double deck layout, the lower level may have to be a drop leaf and the upper level a tilt up. If its a double deck layout and the lower deck is less than 36 inches high, a drop down won't clear a 36" wide door.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I have a lift-off section on my layout. It's a fully scenicked river valley spanned by a Central Valley truss bridge. The "benchwork" is a block of pink foam with thin hardboard around the edges. It's very light.
I usually just climb under it to get behind.
The layout sections on either side are independently powered and only the DCC track bus wires cross the gap on the liftout section.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Sheldon: Got it, you're referring to an article written by Bill Schopf and published in June 2021. I've ordered a copy. This style of swing gate is really the cadillac model that allows significant scenery on the gate but requires more available open space to operate the gate. May take more time to operate hardware to keep the gate properly aligned and stable (a guess). Lift-outs can be a great solution for occasional use but, IMO, are problematic when desiring multiple open/close uses during an operating session.
Ed: thanks my friend, you always provide excellent answers with illustrations! I could install the drop end in an alcove area to protect "the bridge". Could you please explain the construction of the connect/release end? How involved is the process to open and close the bridge? I get the impression that you do not routinely use the drop bridge during operating sessions. Is there a way to make it easy to open and close the bridge during operation? In my future layout, I would like to be able to go in and out of the pit (many times during a session) to access trains in staging.
Lots of decisions to be made and I'm only getting started in the process. What is the minimum span width for the bridge? I would have clearance for a 3-1/2 ft lift-up span at my desired layout height (44 inches).
**** NO!!!
IDRickCould you please explain the construction of the connect/release end? How involved is the process to open and close the bridge?
Looking up at the mating end. I sandwiched two pieces of 1/4" aluminum then drilled the indexing holes for the dowel pins and drilled and tapped the upper piece for a 5/16-18 threaded cap screw acting as a stud and a clearance hole on the lower (bridge) piece.
DB_5 by Edmund, on Flickr
I had a few different threaded hand knobs but finally settled on the black phenolic type shown here.
DB_2 by Edmund, on Flickr
You can see the dog-point set serews protruding closer to the bridge. These can be adjusted to get a perfect rail height.
Here is the mating stationary end. I can drop the bridge in a matter of fifteen seconds or so. The only areas on the other side of the bridge is the paint booth and model workshop. Again the height is comfortable enough that I can (still) easily duck under.
DB_1 by Edmund, on Flickr
The bridge itself is two clear pieces of poplar that have been dadoed (actually groove, since it is parallel to the grain) to accept a good quality 3/8 piece of plywood for the deck. It hasn't warped or twisted one bit.
If you needed "quick access" to drop the bridge you could use a toggle lever (De-Sta-Co clamp) and this would easily flip open in moments.
BEAUSABRE **** NO!!!
It would be really nice to have some context to this emotional outburst?
IDRick Sheldon: Got it, you're referring to an article written by Bill Schopf and published in June 2021. I've ordered a copy. This style of swing gate is really the cadillac model that allows significant scenery on the gate but requires more available open space to operate the gate. May take more time to operate hardware to keep the gate properly aligned and stable (a guess). Lift-outs can be a great solution for occasional use but, IMO, are problematic when desiring multiple open/close uses during an operating session.
My new layout is around the walls with peninsulas so as you enter the basement you need to get "inside" the layout. That spot has 5 tracks on three differnt elevations and I want easy access, so I think the "high quality" gate is the answer.
My gate will need to be 14" wide for the 5 tracks, and will open to over 3' clear.
At another location, to access the workshop area, a simple 4 track lift out will do the job just fine.
I can share my experiences.
Only my fifth SGRR layout had such consideration. It was about 10 by 12 and an around the walls design.
Initially, it had a duck-under, but that just limited how much time I spent in the train room. The duck-under was replaced with a gate. After a while I found I just left the gate down all the time. Then the layout was converted to a loop-and-back design, and finally to a point-to-point.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL IDRick Sheldon: Got it, you're referring to an article written by Bill Schopf and published in June 2021. I've ordered a copy. This style of swing gate is really the cadillac model that allows significant scenery on the gate but requires more available open space to operate the gate. May take more time to operate hardware to keep the gate properly aligned and stable (a guess). Lift-outs can be a great solution for occasional use but, IMO, are problematic when desiring multiple open/close uses during an operating session. My new layout is around the walls with peninsulas so as you enter the basement you need to get "inside" the layout. That spot has 5 tracks on three differnt elevations and I want easy access, so I think the "high quality" gate is the answer.
And being a crackerjack finish carpenter certainly helps.
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICK ATLANTIC CENTRAL IDRick Sheldon: Got it, you're referring to an article written by Bill Schopf and published in June 2021. I've ordered a copy. This style of swing gate is really the cadillac model that allows significant scenery on the gate but requires more available open space to operate the gate. May take more time to operate hardware to keep the gate properly aligned and stable (a guess). Lift-outs can be a great solution for occasional use but, IMO, are problematic when desiring multiple open/close uses during an operating session. My new layout is around the walls with peninsulas so as you enter the basement you need to get "inside" the layout. That spot has 5 tracks on three differnt elevations and I want easy access, so I think the "high quality" gate is the answer. And being a crackerjack finish carpenter certainly helps.
Good to hear from you. However slow, layout construction is underway. Pictures soon.
Six years of dealing with a side opening section in Jersey's varied heat and humidity. The Club I belonged to could never get it stay in adjustment, despite some fairly heroic engineering
BEAUSABRE Six years of dealing with a side opening section in Jersey's varied heat and humidity. The Club I belonged to could never get it stay in adjustment, despite some fairly heroic engineering
Well, my model railroad is not a club, it is not in some building or space left unheated or un cooled when unattended, so problems from temperature or humidity are not likely to occure.
Additionally, I am a skilled carpenter, it is a large part of what I do for a living. I have no doubt I can build such a device and design it to be reliable and easily adjusted when needed.
I agree that building model train layouts in spaced not fully climate controlled can be challenging and problematic. That is why all my layouts have been in rooms with full time climate control.
Sheldon, thanks for showing your layout, marvelous! Thanks for the recommendation for the Bill Schopf article, looking forward to reading it!
Ed, thank you for the detailed response to my questions! You are an excellent teacher by explaining processes in pictures and in text! Quality work, through and through!
I'm still in the early dreaming phase, not sure it all will fit together in the final design. I am pleased to have two fine design examples of a swing gate bridge and a drop down gate.
In doing some surfing on youtube, I found an interesting design for a lift bridge. Here is the link. IMO, there are some important modifications to make to the general design but a good illustration of the concept.
Rather than lift-ups, drop-downs, or swing-gates, I opted for lift-outs...
The lower one is normally used only if I wish to run a train completely around the layout room, usually for the benefit of visiting grand children...
...whereas normal operations are point-to-multiple-points, not requiring the lower lift-out.
The upper lift-out...
..was installed mainly to allow access to trains (and/or locomotives) on staging tracks...
(additional tracks have been added since the photo above was taken)
In most cases, the layout is operated as a point-to-multiple-points system, so once trains have crossed the upper lift-out, it's usually removed, as most train cars end-up spotted somewhere on the actual layout, or are removed from the layout and returned to their respective boxes under the staging yards...
I purposely chose to not allow any basement windows in the layout room, so with good insulation, the temperature year-round is usually equally comfortable unless there's a real temperature drop outdoors, like -20F or -30F (this is southern Ontario, but it's still part of the great white north).
Because there are no bare walls beneath the layout (it's all storage room, elevate off the floor)...
I couldn't install any electric baseboard-type electric heaters, so if it's necessary, I simply plug-in a portable electric heater, and in 15 minutes the whole room is a comfortable temperature.All three of the other basement rooms have wall-mounted electric heaters, the same as all of the rooms upstairs.
Wayne
My layout has a lift out, a swing gate and a duckunder (60"). The lift out is stored out of the way and used mainly in OPs sessions. The gate and duckunder allow for pretty easy access.
Here is a link to build thread:
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/127351/1434854.aspx#143485
The lift up section in MR looks like it will work, my layout configuration didn't have space for that type of design. The gate has been in for many years and has worked out pretty well...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Wayne, thanks for sharing pictures of your liftouts and describing how you use them. Certainly a viable option in many circumstances. Always enjoy seeing pictures of your layout!
Guy, wow, love that trestle bridge on your swing gate! Excellent work on both the trestle and gate. Can you describe how you provide power to the track on the gate? In particular, I am interested in how you handle the varying length of wiring needed for an open gate versus a closed gate? Probably easy but I'm not envisioning how you do it... Also, the gate has many years of operation under its belt. Were any adjustments required over time? Thank you so much for sharing this beautiful gate!
Rick,
Thanks for the kind words. The wire feeding the gate is along the edge of the hinge for the gate so the wire length doesn't change much from open to closed. I just used some zip cord and it has worked out fine over the years.
I have had to make a few adjustments to the gate in terms of keeping the gate aligned when closed but those have been pretty minor. I usually keep a clothespin in the pocket so the gate doesn't close completely when I am not running trains. The clearance is so tight that inadvertant downward pressure on the gate will cause the rail ends to catch on each other as they pass. Not a problem but not something I want to deal with when entering or leaving the room when not running trains.
It would be better if the gate could swing all the way open but my space doesn't allow for that. The other thing to watch out for when you design a gate is where the gate might contact the benchwork across the aisle. Mine happens to contact in the middle of a switch panel...not ideal...
In general, I have been pretty happy with the gate and the trestle....
IDRick,
I actually have the same type of lift-up section on my layout - using the same type of cabinet hinges. The bridge is 1/2" Baltic birch plywood, and spans 30 inches. I've had it in use for about 8 years, and have had no problems with it. We (model railroaders) tend to over build benchwork. The lift bridge has to carry it's own weight, plus a little for scenery, etc. For that kind of load, the 1/2" plywood does just fine. I use a ball catch on the free end to maintain alignment.
Regard,
Dan Fisher
Thanks for posting your reply Dan! Eight years of operation, great success! Can you share pictures of your lift up? I always enjoy looking at others' handiwork! IMO, it is also incredibly helpful for beginners to see working gates that are simpler to build and not requiring fine craftsmen's tools.