Control Panel Design

[Anonymous]

Hello all. This is my first post, so be gentle.
My 4x8 HO layout, originally described as my 6 year old son's, has morphed into a fairly complex, DC, dual cab, 6 block, 14 turnout affair. He still enjoys running tracks around the oval, but there's plenty of operating interest available for me. I'm using Atlas code 100 flextrack and under table switch machines, that I'll be wiring up to Atlas relays to power frogs and control panel LEDs. The switch machines will be powered off of a Circuitron Snapper.
Currently, the control panel is a rather unsophisticated affair, using the Atlas family of switches. As the number of turnouts has expanded, I've run out of room on the panel and have decided to rebuild it, using a sheet of aluminum on a hinged wooden frame.
The new panel will have a track schematic, with momentary DPDTs and green or amber LEDs at each turnout position. I've seen plenty of examples that illustrate how to build/wire this. I'll be using center-off DPDTs to selectively route power from the cabs to the blocks. When he saw me putting in insulators, my kid got worried that he wouldn't be able to use the new parts of the layout, but I explained that when he's running trains, he'll just switch all the blocks to a single cab. So far he isn't convinced that dad can actually deliver, hence my questions:
1. Any suggestions for integrating the block control switches into the panel? Should they be overlayed on the diagram on top of the block they control, or arranged off to the side somewhere with numbers to reference the block?
2. I want to provide LEDs indicating which cab is active on a block. I'm assuming that these can be wired onto one pole of the DPDTs. I don't want to confuse these indicator LEDs with the turnout position indicators, especially since they might have to be placed close to the turnout indicators on the schematic. Any suggestions on the color of LEDs to use? Or are these indicator lights redundant? Remember that my operator are still in Kindergarten.
3. I also have six roundhouse tracks that need SPST toggles to allow me to park engines. Should these be arranged in a semicircle that roughly corresponds to the position of the tracks on the layout, or should I stick them in a row off to the side? These won't need indicator LEDs.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[rrinker]

If your two cabs are located so that they flank the control panel, just arracnge the block toggles to that when the handle points to the cab on the left, that's the one connected, and so on. No indicator LEDs needed. I would put the switches int he center of the block being controlled. Likewise, the roundhouse track control I would arrange to be in the roundhouse pattern, also on the actual schematic. Step 1 in recognition is locating the place ont he schematic witht he place ont he actual railroad. Requiring a younger child to go one step further and then find the number, and the switch arranged in a line below the panel using that number, may be too much to ask at this stage. It will be easier for him if the switch that controls, say, the third track from the back, is on the diagram of the third track from the back. Probably easier for you, too. Back when I was your son's age, my Dad always put up a large layout, it started as a 4x8 but then grew with an extra shelf around all sides plus a 2' extension on one end - totally filling the alloted space int he family room. He did all the track work and wiring, however, I was the only one who could actually run trains without running a switch and derailing. It was also my intro to electricity - one morning I got up after he went to work and found that he had completed one of the loops but not wired it yet. I found the wires and hooked them to the power pack, and the train went halfway around and stalled. I finally found the insulated joiners, and then found the second feeder - hooked that up and now I could run my trains all the way around. Yes, I was 6 or 7 at the time. Any wonder I eventually went to college for a degree in electrical engineering? [:D]

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the suggestions, Randy.
Since I will have the two cabs flanking the panel, I'll use your suggestion to avoid using indicator lights. If I use a different colored plastic toggle cover, like the kind available at the 'Shack ("You've got questions? So do we!") then it'll be clear which toggles are for blocks and which for turnouts.
Kind of wish I had that EE background now. Although since that was my Dad's area, I was sort of forced to rebel and do something else. At least he's available for free consultations. Maybe the gene skips a generation.
- David

[cwclark]

welcome to the forum!...sounds like you already know what you want to do...as far as dividing the blocks, I usually paint a black stripe on the diagram denoting a change from one block to another (adding a block # next to the toggle switch would'nt hurt either)...and randy is right..if the toggle for a block is one way for one cab and another way for the other cab then LED's aren't needed...I'd just use the LED's to denote the turnout position, maybe red for diverging track and green for the straight track....another thing you can do is (I do this) is use a power pack throttle for cab A and a hand held throttle for cab B...this way you can hand your son the hand held throttle, choose the route he wants to take, and set all the block toggles and turnouts for that route then turn him loose.......another thing you have to remember is that he is in kindergarten...don't expect him to be the control tower dispatcher guy at the Englewood yard right off the bat....this is your chance to work with him and show him how it all works in the end...finally, the circle in the roundhouse seems ok too..or you can tape it in a way that all the round house tracks meet at the turntable and bend into a horizonal pattern ...chuck

[ericboone]

I would simply wire your roundhouse tracks (and all your blocks) with center-off DPDT switches. (You could use center-off SPST switches if you use a common rail wiring sysytem, but those sysytems make isolating short circuits more difficult.) Then you can assign individual roundhouse tracks to individual cabs and keep the rest unpowered. Don't forget that the turntable itself must be wired as a reverse loop!

[rogerhensley]

A picture is worth a thousand words. This is from the NMRA Beginner's pages. (Yes, it is my control panel).
The blocks are controlled with a dpdt center off toggle switch for direction and on-off capability. Cab control is done with the row of switches toward the bottom of the panel. You should be able to see the full size photo by using your right mouse button and 'view image' or go to: http://www.nmra.org/beginner/CtrlPanel.html

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the responses.
ericboone, I'm using the Atlas turntable with a single approach track. I was planning on wiring the approach track, the turntable and all the stall tracks on a single block, then adding SPST toggles to power the stall tracks.
rogerhensley, in the picture you said that the bottom row of toggles controls the cab selection and on/off state. What do the toggles do that are on the diagram, but not near turnouts? For instance, on the left hand side of the schematic, there's a red-handled toggle with what looks like a "1" next to it on the inside track. Also, you've got a two-position rotary switch over the meters. Does this control what's being displayed on the meters? And the two red push buttons below the meters? What about them?
Sorry to ask so many questions, but I hoping to make this first layout as sophisticated as possible, in preparation for the empire I'll build next.
Thanks, David

[rogerhensley]

The toggles on the diagram are the Block Control switches. They control direction and on-off of the individual blocks. The bottom row just controls which cab in in control of the indiviual block.

There is a '1' next to that toggle as it controls Block 1.If you follow the line upward, you will see the mark for the change from Block 1 to Block 3. The other blocks change at a turnout and no marker is needed.

The rotary switch does control the meter display. Exactly right.
The two red buttons? Ah, well, I have grandkids coming through frequently and one controls an old Tyco flatcar loading accessory and the other controls a 'steam whistle' accessory which will soon go away. :-)

You didn't ask, but the 3 small toggles control building and accessory lighting on the layout. And there are two pushbuttons on the diagram that control the turnout for one siding.

Ok that said, I have removed all of the other turnout control pushbuttons from the diagram when I changed to Tortoise Slow-Mo switch machines. I now control them with the panel below.

[Seamonster]

One thing to remember when using toggle switches is that the electrical connection inside the switch is made from the centre terminal to the outside terminal at the OPPOSITE side to which the handle points. That is, for two controllers, one at each side of the control panel as rrinker suggests, the wires from the left-hand controller have to connect to the right-hand terminals of the toggle switch (as viewed from the handle side of the switch) and the wires from the right-hand controller have to connect to the left -hand terminals of the switch.
...Bob

[rrinker]

Yup, that's usually the FIRST thing you learn about DPDT toggles - AFTER you've screwed them in and wired the whole panel!

--Randy