snjroy Lou Sassi's layout fits in a room 21 X 23. Is that not correct? Simon
Lou Sassi's layout fits in a room 21 X 23. Is that not correct?
Simon
snjroy I like this one from Lou Sassi: https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/lou-sassis-ho-scale-moving-coal-on-the-co-layout/ You might be able to flip it to align the entrance to the door. You can also remove the yard (at 9 o'clock) for increased access. And these: https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/ho-scale-st-george/ https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/track-plan-ho-scale-chester-ridge-pennebrook/ Simon
I like this one from Lou Sassi:
https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/lou-sassis-ho-scale-moving-coal-on-the-co-layout/
You might be able to flip it to align the entrance to the door. You can also remove the yard (at 9 o'clock) for increased access.
And these:
https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/ho-scale-st-george/
https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/track-plan-ho-scale-chester-ridge-pennebrook/
? They are all nearly twice the size of the available space......
PennsyLou Something like:
Something like:
Alton Junction
PennsyLou ATLANTIC CENTRAL I would build a 19' long x 6' wide layout with a backdrop down the middle. The mainline could loop twice around and part of it could disapear into some thru staging. That is an 80' mainline run that could have 32" or 34" radius curves, a nice yard for 12-15 car trains and similar hidden staging. No duck unders, no hard to reach areas. And 3' scene depth is a great for good appearance and room for industies , etc. Sheldon This idea has a lot of potential. To use the whole 10' (or 10 1/2') wide space, the 19 x 6 could be a peninsula attached to one wall (say the right hand one) - with access in front, around the left side, and behind (with the viewdrop down the middle). Now there is a 4' or 4 1/2' aisle between the "back" of the layout and the back wall - take a spur off the back and you can either run a branch line around the back of the room on an 18" shelf (maintaining a 30" aisle) all the way to the left side window, or have great visible staging that feeds the rest of the layout (or maybe even both if the staging is lower level with the branch line on the upper). Something like:
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I would build a 19' long x 6' wide layout with a backdrop down the middle. The mainline could loop twice around and part of it could disapear into some thru staging. That is an 80' mainline run that could have 32" or 34" radius curves, a nice yard for 12-15 car trains and similar hidden staging. No duck unders, no hard to reach areas. And 3' scene depth is a great for good appearance and room for industies , etc. Sheldon
I would build a 19' long x 6' wide layout with a backdrop down the middle. The mainline could loop twice around and part of it could disapear into some thru staging.
That is an 80' mainline run that could have 32" or 34" radius curves, a nice yard for 12-15 car trains and similar hidden staging. No duck unders, no hard to reach areas.
And 3' scene depth is a great for good appearance and room for industies , etc.
Sheldon
Or...
you could start by rotating the peninsula counter clockwise by 90 degrees so it comes off the middle of the top wall and runs N to S. Make the radius sharp enough along the top wall so that you can have access to the base of the peninsuls from the sides. The radius will be you bare bones minimum for equipment to run. Scenicked to conceal the sharpness of the curve.
Then have two wings on either side along the E and W walls, connected by shallow shelves along the N wall. These E and W wings can represent Station A and Station B.
The track plan in the peninsula might not work exactly as shown, but the concept of having a loopy mountain ascention could still work, IMO. (Station A wing could be higher than station B wing, keeping the loops from having to ascend and then descend in the same space....a gentler grade)
Trains move between stations, and use the continuous running provision in the center peninsula to build up mileage between stations, or just let'em run while you work at the bench.
It would amount to a walk-in plan with no duckunders and a deep scene in the peninsula. The challenge would be access at the base of the peninsula, but as mentioned, if you keep the radius sharp and the shelves that come off the base shallow, there should be no more than a 30 to 36 inch reach (by my eyeball).
The left side station, Station A, could exentend as far as OP wanted, around the window and over the workbench if he wanted, since Station A is higher than B. There should be room for some staging tracks in the peninsula, under the ascending tracks.
- Douglas
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
So my idea still works, just needs slightly smaller aisles and losses a little length.
Bear. no obstructions. If you follow the walls, 21 feet long and 10 feet deep area un obstructed. AN e shape, the back would be 21 feet, the top leg and bottom leg would be 10 feet. a center leg (penisula) could reach 12 feet long but should stay at 10 feet to keep a rectangular
The window and door split the room in half equally
Shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
NVSRR I went back over to the building to measure where the door is even though sticking to the 150 sqft means the layout can be positioned to completely avoide the door no matter the spape of the layout. I realized the waste of space. If i move the workbench next to the spray both then move the stored largescale (when not in use outside) where the work bench was, i now have half the building for layout space. a whole 21x10 area.
I went back over to the building to measure where the door is even though sticking to the 150 sqft means the layout can be positioned to completely avoide the door no matter the spape of the layout.
I realized the waste of space. If i move the workbench next to the spray both then move the stored largescale (when not in use outside) where the work bench was, i now have half the building for layout space. a whole 21x10 area.
JaBear The Bear has been told from time to time that he is “as thick as a short plank” because I’m not actually getting what the 21’ x 10’ dimension means. Is it the area that the layout has to fit into, or is it the possible layout size? Are there any walls, doors, appliances, or other services that may impinge on the space, and if so, where are they? Is a 30” wide aisle acceptable?
Are there any walls, doors, appliances, or other services that may impinge on the space, and if so, where are they?
Photos of the room would really help. My room was full of all of the above and required being creative.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL I think something was said earlier about a door along the long wall limiting that space to 21'? So if we can use the "public" space as a front aisle and as the aisle by the door, I would build a 19' long x 6' wide layout with a backdrop down the middle. The mainline could loop twice around and part of it could disapear into some thru staging. That is an 80' mainline run that could have 32" or 34" radius curves, a nice yard for 12-15 car trains and similar hidden staging. No duck unders, no hard to reach areas. And 3' scene depth is a great for good appearance and room for industies , etc. Sheldon Agreed, that shape would be high on my list, especially if access inside the room is needed for other things. The long backdrop provides the well-defined scene separation you want. It sort of replaces the sheer distance that other layout shapes need for that separation. And there are no access issues for a person who might have mobility challenges.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I think something was said earlier about a door along the long wall limiting that space to 21'? So if we can use the "public" space as a front aisle and as the aisle by the door, I would build a 19' long x 6' wide layout with a backdrop down the middle. The mainline could loop twice around and part of it could disapear into some thru staging. That is an 80' mainline run that could have 32" or 34" radius curves, a nice yard for 12-15 car trains and similar hidden staging. No duck unders, no hard to reach areas. And 3' scene depth is a great for good appearance and room for industies , etc. Sheldon
I think something was said earlier about a door along the long wall limiting that space to 21'?
So if we can use the "public" space as a front aisle and as the aisle by the door, I would build a 19' long x 6' wide layout with a backdrop down the middle. The mainline could loop twice around and part of it could disapear into some thru staging.
Agreed, that shape would be high on my list, especially if access inside the room is needed for other things. The long backdrop provides the well-defined scene separation you want. It sort of replaces the sheer distance that other layout shapes need for that separation.
And there are no access issues for a person who might have mobility challenges.
I have designed several "island" trpe layuts like that for others. They all turned out nice.
It looks like Shane is not going to tell us.
Rich
And maybe Bear would have some ideas on a 21 x 10 space too.
shane
richhotrain Which of Bear's options will you choose? I wouldn’t be offended if none were. It was a useful exercise for me.
richhotrain Which of Bear's options will you choose?
richhotrainWhich of Bear's options will you choose?
Which of Bear's options will you choose?
I realized this is mostly a health decision. Really. With this stroke, I am recovering good but the damage is done. What if another comes along, how will accessibility. And just general abilities be. I decided to take the 12 year old layout down redesign to something more friendly to potential handicap. Plus I have learned along via internet that wasn't around 12 years ago when this one was designed. Off to start the process. First the list of industries and such plus looking over track arrangements and track plans. See what might work, and what won't. See if bear's ideas work
A dogbone design inherently puts access problems into the two turnback lobes unless you have access on all four sides. Even if one lobe is up against a wall, there is still an access issue there, especially if you use broader curves (which makes the lobe bigger).
You can install an access hole into the middel of the large lobe. The hole can be concealed by a backdrop that's installed in front of the hole but set back 30 inches from the edge. It would sort of bisect the lobe diagonally. Behind the backdrop would be the access hole and even a good start on a staging yard, since that portion would be unscenicked.
But you would still want access behind the long straightaway. You could scenic a part of that straightaway if your staging was largely contained within that one lobe.
The shape of the layout also might depend on what you want to run/model. A C-shaped layout with a 15 x 15 footprint that had access all around and backdrops in the center (like Bear's design) would give you the potential for the most scenes. But each scene would be relatively short and half of them would be very curvy. Probably a good choice for a 1950's coal hauler. Not so much for a midwest grainger or even passenger ops, IMO. Just tossing out some concepts to mix and match with layout shape.
You certainly have a lot of space to play with. That leaves you with many options, as you have heard from many members. My advice would be to look at the MR track plan database, or purchase one or two books on designs (Kalmbach has a few "101" plans books). Consider your preferences (era, industry, rolling stock), and see what fits. When I designed my plan, I got a lot of inspiration from these books.
If I follow the 21 x 10. I could have zero isles. No duck understand either. With a a dog bone that has one side mostly hidden as to appear to be a single main in a roral area going point to point
richhotrain I am having a difficult time visualing this proposed Z-layout. Can someone draw it? I thought I could but… Apologies to Dave H, I’m not trying to “take the mickey!” Shane Rev2 by Bear, on Flickr Shane Rev3 by Bear, on Flickr I fear that I’m providing a “How to not plan a Layout” tutorial. Cheers, the Bear. P.S. Perhaps I should stick to colouring in books and try to keep the crayon within the lines!
richhotrain I am having a difficult time visualing this proposed Z-layout. Can someone draw it?
Shane Rev2 by Bear, on Flickr
Shane Rev3 by Bear, on Flickr
I like both of these, but the same concept applied to the 21' x 10' space would be even better. urban on one side, rural on the other, some staging could be hidden in the middle.
I have designed several large "island" layouts for others, they all turned out nice.
One more general comment - 30" aisles are not acceptable to me.
16' x 16' = 256 sq. Ft.
If it were me, I would go for that 21' x 10' space.
We all forgot something. the layout stands two feet off two walls. that makes the spaces 16 x 16 or 150 sqft.
I realized the waste of space. If i move the workbench next to the spray both then move the stored largescale (when not in use outside) where the work bench was, i now have half the building for layout space. a whole 21x10 area. effectively splitting the building in half the same way my grandfather hadf when he built it for storage and his large layout in 65. that space at two levels is quite large indeed. I do not need to use it all though.
I was originally looking to review this decision of do I start over or keep going. in 10 years. the existing layout would be 23 by that time. but the stroke made me think now is better since 10 years from now i might not be able to build a new one. or afford it. If I go that route. helth says a no ductunder deisgn might be far better than working with the current deign. .
Bear's one design kind of creates four different areas though.
If there is access around the whole outside, this is possibly an ideal candidate for a "mushroom" type layout i.e. access to the outside lower level, with "inside" access to an elevated upper level. Of course this would entail a significant degree of complexity. I would also consider a dogbone with "blobs" on each end of a double track mainline. The space for the yard is inadequate - barely 5' straight if the minimum curve radius is considered, and this will be eaten up by the ladder(s). The yard needs most of an entire wall or possibly something along the diagonal something like 10' long as a minimum. What train lengths are going to be run?
Where is the door entering this room?