John-NYBW I discovered that an Altas #8 curved turnout has a tighter inside radius than advertised and has been a source of derailments with my fully lenghth passenger cars. I am currently replacing it with a Peco #7 curved turnout which actually has broader curves, both inside and outside. I was able to salvage the #8 by carefully breaking it free from the ballast and discovered that the inside curve matches my 30" gauge almost exactly.
I discovered that an Altas #8 curved turnout has a tighter inside radius than advertised and has been a source of derailments with my fully lenghth passenger cars. I am currently replacing it with a Peco #7 curved turnout which actually has broader curves, both inside and outside. I was able to salvage the #8 by carefully breaking it free from the ballast and discovered that the inside curve matches my 30" gauge almost exactly.
Rich
Alton Junction
I used the rail gauges on my shortline which runs much shorter equipment and therefore tighter radii. I have both a 28" and a 30" gauge which is the minimum on my shortline. On my mainline, 36" was the minimum or so I thought. I discovered that an Altas #8 curved turnout has a tighter inside radius than advertised and has been a source of derailments with my fully lenghth passenger cars. I am currently replacing it with a Peco #7 curved turnout which actually has broader curves, both inside and outside. I was able to salvage the #8 by carefully breaking it free from the ballast and discovered that the inside curve matches my 30" gauge almost exactly. I'm going to repurpose it on the shortline where I am adding a turnout on one of my 30" curves. The Atlas #8 seems to fit it perfectly. "
As far as ribbon rail gauges which I use, I have fould that you have to make sure it is loose in the flex or you could have a hair less. My whole layout is mostly 18" radius and if I did it again I would use 19" for a bit of wiggle room. I'm not saying fore sure that that was the proublem with the one curve I reworked but I do know that it would not have been an issue with wiggle room.
This a trick question?
Fix it right and move on!
hbgatsf Now that I know what I am looking for I am going to use the sectional track to check each curve to help find problems. Once I am done with that I'll go back to the misaligned curve. To help resolve that I was thinking of soldering the sectional track together and replacing the flex track with it. It is in an obscure spot and won't be noticeable. That should make any roadbed realignment that is needed easier. Any thoughts on that? Rick
Now that I know what I am looking for I am going to use the sectional track to check each curve to help find problems. Once I am done with that I'll go back to the misaligned curve.
To help resolve that I was thinking of soldering the sectional track together and replacing the flex track with it. It is in an obscure spot and won't be noticeable. That should make any roadbed realignment that is needed easier.
Any thoughts on that?
Rick
What I really like about flex track is that you can determine a minimum radius and then allow broader curves to occur, whether intentional or not, to form easements. To do this, I use and recommend the Ribbon Rail Metal Track Alignment Gauges.
Let's say that your layout is designed to include 24" radius curves. If you had three 10-inch long curved alignment gauges, all 24" radius, that would be sufficient to lay out a minimum, consistent, 24" radius curve, moving the alignment gauges forward along the formed curve in the flex track, nailing the track down as you move along. If you do that carefully, you will form a perfect 24" radius curve.
hbgatsf richhotrain I did have problems with BLI 2-10-2s and 2-10-4s on anything less than 28" radius curves, but my Northern could handle 24" radius curves. Rich Thank you for stating several times that your Northern would negotiate 24" curves. That gave me the motivation to keep working on this. I checked the wheels on the locomotive and they were in gauge. I then ran it through a 24" curve that covers about 200 degrees. Going back and forth a number of times revealed that it only derailed in one spot and it was the same spot all the time. The front drivers would climb the rail. The track there was a little tight on the gauge but otherwise it looked fine. When I put the sectional track on top of it in that spot the ties between the two did not line up perfectly for about an eight tie lenth. I moved the track about 1/32" and nailed it back down. After that the loco ran through the entire curve without a problem. I am now going to meticulously check every curve on the layout. The challenge will be if a section that is ballasted has a problem. If I get them all fixed I will go back to the problematic curve that started this discussion and do whatever needs to be done to fix it. Thanks for all the suggestions. Rick
richhotrain I did have problems with BLI 2-10-2s and 2-10-4s on anything less than 28" radius curves, but my Northern could handle 24" radius curves. Rich
I did have problems with BLI 2-10-2s and 2-10-4s on anything less than 28" radius curves, but my Northern could handle 24" radius curves.
Thank you for stating several times that your Northern would negotiate 24" curves. That gave me the motivation to keep working on this.
I checked the wheels on the locomotive and they were in gauge. I then ran it through a 24" curve that covers about 200 degrees. Going back and forth a number of times revealed that it only derailed in one spot and it was the same spot all the time. The front drivers would climb the rail.
The track there was a little tight on the gauge but otherwise it looked fine. When I put the sectional track on top of it in that spot the ties between the two did not line up perfectly for about an eight tie lenth. I moved the track about 1/32" and nailed it back down. After that the loco ran through the entire curve without a problem.
I am now going to meticulously check every curve on the layout. The challenge will be if a section that is ballasted has a problem. If I get them all fixed I will go back to the problematic curve that started this discussion and do whatever needs to be done to fix it.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Some years back, I bought a number of Ribbon Rail Metal Track Alignment Gauges with various curve radii, ranging from 26" to 40". I initially bought one of each. When I settled on 32" minimum radius curves on my new layout, I bought five more 32" radius gauges. I won't settle for less than 32" radius. If the curve is broader, you can see it as the 32" gauge is placed between the rails.
I have had to re-do some ballasted track from time to time. No problem. I soften the glue to release the track and correct the problem, then re-ballast.
As far as BLI their quality control is pretty bad at times. Had (note the had) a diesel by them and one of the main truck holes was off by a bit, enough so that it derailed at one point on my layout, only item that did. Was going to fix it once I discovered the proubem but desided the handrails were to cunky for my liking so sold it.
snjroy Turnouts are more often the cause of derailments than the curves.
Turnouts are more often the cause of derailments than the curves.
wrench567 How many holes in the drawbar? You have to use the furthest drawbar hole to get the tighter turns. I run some really large steam on some small radius turnouts and yard tracks. My BLI J1 2-10-4 is probably my longest wheelbase locomotive and it can go where my 0-6-0 can go on my little modular layout. Pete.
How many holes in the drawbar? You have to use the furthest drawbar hole to get the tighter turns. I run some really large steam on some small radius turnouts and yard tracks. My BLI J1 2-10-4 is probably my longest wheelbase locomotive and it can go where my 0-6-0 can go on my little modular layout.
Pete.
By furthest do you mean the one that is closer to the tender or to the locomotive?
I have a number of 2-8-2s and 4-8-4s (Mantuas, Bowsers, Bachmanns, brass) that can go through four 22" curves on my layout. Track is level in both directions. My old brass 2-10-4 can handle them too. Turnouts are more often the cause of derailments than the curves.
Simon
Regarding steam locomotives, I follow a 4x guideline. A 4-wheel driver configuration (e.g., 2-4-0) needs a minimum 16" radius curve (4x4). A 6-wheel driver configuration (e.g., 4-6-2) needs a minimum 24" radius curve (4x6). An 8-wheel driver configuration (e.g., 4-8-4) needs a minimum 32" radius curve (4x8). A 10-wheel driver configuration (e.g., 4-8-4) configuration (e.g., 2-10-2) needs a minimum 40" radius curve (4x10). Some modelers use a 3x guideline, but in my experience that is too tight.
hbgatsf Just to clarify, I didn't run the locomotive on the sectional track. I put it on top of the flex track to check the radius. I also used a metal yardstick bent around the curves to check for problems and didn't find any.
Just to clarify, I didn't run the locomotive on the sectional track. I put it on top of the flex track to check the radius. I also used a metal yardstick bent around the curves to check for problems and didn't find any.
A layout with minimum radius curves of 40" or broader can handle any loco without derailments if the curves are soldered, the rails are level with one another, and the track is in-gauge. In my experience, any curves less than 32" radius cannot guarantee flawless performance unless the curves are "bullet proof". Once the curves get narrower than 28", problems are likely to arise except for smaller locomotives.
Just to clarify, I didn't run the locomotive on the sectional track. I put it on top of the flex track to check the radius. I also used a metal yardstick bent around the curves to check for problems and didn't find any. I just realized I haven't put a gauge on the locomotive's wheels. I will check them.
hbgatsf Answers to some questions: - all joints were soldered while straight and then formed into curves. There are no kinks.
Answers to some questions:
- all joints were soldered while straight and then formed into curves. There are no kinks.
hbgatsf - locomotive's driving wheels derail. They can't navigate the 24" radius. - I checked curves with some 24" radius sectional track that I bought for that purpose. Except for the section that started this thread all curves are laid correctly. The Northern derails on any that are less than 26.5".
- locomotive's driving wheels derail. They can't navigate the 24" radius.
- I checked curves with some 24" radius sectional track that I bought for that purpose. Except for the section that started this thread all curves are laid correctly. The Northern derails on any that are less than 26.5".
Since I am not going to tear up the whole layout for this locomotive I will sell it and consider this an idea that didn't work out.
Count me in for fixing the issue.In doing that, you might encounter something else thtat's been bothering you or you find another area you'd like to change. Altering the layout is a great idea (side note: hands up who changed their layout after seeing someone describe something here or in an MR article?).
Get rid of the loco that doesn't work for the era, or only use it for excursions.
hbgatsf I put about 5 hours into the project and couldn't get the Northern to run through the curve without derailing.
I put about 5 hours into the project and couldn't get the Northern to run through the curve without derailing.
Also, are all of the rail joiners soldered throughout the curves so that there are no kinks?
My BLI Northern has no problems on 32" radius curves and will perform just fine on 30" and 28" radius curves. On my first layout with its 24" and 22" radius curves, the Northern had issues, but that was because of kinks on unsoldered curves and less than perfect radius when using flextrack. If you have soldered curves and perfectly formed curves, the Northern should be able to negotiate the curves without derailments.
Sounds like there is some sort of interference between parts that might be causing the issue.
Anyone tried calling BLI and telling them that the engine doesn't seem to like 24 inch radius curves, mentioning that their literature states that it should run on 22 inch or better radius, and asking them if they have any suggestions?
hbgatsf Well, I tried. I put about 5 hours into the project and couldn't get the Northern to run through the curve without derailing. I was able to enlarge the radius of the curve a little by putting cork on the outside of current track but that didn't work. I was about to start to realign the approach and realized I had never taken the locomotive all the way around the layout because of the problem I have been disucssing. I decided to check the other curves before I put any more time into this. I am glad I did. It doesn't like anything under a 27" radius. Since I have a number of 24" curves that I am not going to change the Northern is back at the roundhouse awaiting sale. I am disappointed BLI lists this model as needing 22" curves. My experience shows that is not valid. Rick
Well, I tried. I put about 5 hours into the project and couldn't get the Northern to run through the curve without derailing. I was able to enlarge the radius of the curve a little by putting cork on the outside of current track but that didn't work. I was about to start to realign the approach and realized I had never taken the locomotive all the way around the layout because of the problem I have been disucssing. I decided to check the other curves before I put any more time into this.
I am glad I did. It doesn't like anything under a 27" radius. Since I have a number of 24" curves that I am not going to change the Northern is back at the roundhouse awaiting sale.
I am disappointed BLI lists this model as needing 22" curves. My experience shows that is not valid.
BLI has disappointed me too many times for me to continue as one of their customers. Their quality control leaves much to be desired.
doctorwayne I'd be bugged enough by the glitches that I'd fix it. Wayne
I'd be bugged enough by the glitches that I'd fix it.
Wayne
I feel the same way, Wayne. I got an Athearn Genesis UP Big Boy for Christmas and some Walthers passenger cars. They didn't like the radii of the curve at one end of the layout. I cut the scenery with a Dremel and removed all of the scenery and track. I have styrene templates that I bought years ago from a company that doesn't exist anymore. Other than a curved turnout, all of the track is flex-track. There were some sections of the track that were reusable. Now, running my excursion train with no issues makes it enjoyable to run it.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
As I said yesterday I needed to step back and think about this some. The responses I got have helped.
It will be easy enough to remove some track nails and move the track around to see if that helps. If that doesn't work I can cut the track in the straight section to see how far I need to move it to fix the problem.
At that point I should know how much more work will be needed and I can decide if it is worth proceeding.
Thanks again.
I'm a guy that gets up from dinner to replace a light bulb that burns out over the dining room table, even if it is one of many bulbs in the fixture. These bigger fixes on the layout never seem as daunting once started and/or done, so I am in the FIX IT! Category.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
hbgatsf snjroy Fix it. You will probably get other rolling stock that will also derail. Is it level laterally? A shim could do the trick. Otherwise, it's a 2 hour job... Simon It is going to be much more than a 2 hour job. As I said earlier I will need to re-align a long section of approaching track as well as cutting the splice in the curve and redoing it. Rick
snjroy Fix it. You will probably get other rolling stock that will also derail. Is it level laterally? A shim could do the trick. Otherwise, it's a 2 hour job... Simon
Fix it. You will probably get other rolling stock that will also derail. Is it level laterally? A shim could do the trick. Otherwise, it's a 2 hour job...
It is going to be much more than a 2 hour job. As I said earlier I will need to re-align a long section of approaching track as well as cutting the splice in the curve and redoing it.
Fix it!!!!!!!https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2014/12/december-22-2014-ho-turnouts.htmlMel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, CaliforniaGrowing old is a bummer, aging is definitely not for wimps.
How long have you benn running the layout and how many times has this been a problem?
It seems to come down to struggling with the irrationality of fixing it....only seems to effect a very limited amount of equipment......, or having to emotionally deal with the irritant of knowing there is a problem.
Eliminating the irritant is an easy fix. Just go on vacation and drink a lot of booze. Come back a month later and you will have forgotten all about the problem that isn't really a problem anyway.
The irritant will be gone, and you'll have more fun eliminating the irritant than relaying the track.
- Douglas