rrebell You need a very small spray bottle, I have them from quart size to one for small spaces that is only 2" tall.
You need a very small spray bottle, I have them from quart size to one for small spaces that is only 2" tall.
I have one. I had gaps less than a half inch wide and I didn't want to get water or alcohol on structures. It was better to apply precisely with a pipette.
Rick
hbgatsf I have been working on ballast for the past week and this is the part that I am having problems with as I can't seem to master tapping on the rails with a brush handle or spoon to get the ties clear. Rick
I have been working on ballast for the past week and this is the part that I am having problems with as I can't seem to master tapping on the rails with a brush handle or spoon to get the ties clear.
I figured out why I was having such a hard time getting the ballast to behave.
The area that I started on is a steel mill with the track laid directly on painted plywood. Tapping the rail wasn't getting the ballast off and no matter how much effort I put into grooming it after glueing it was always rough looking. That was ok because I wasn't trying for a pristine look for the mill.
After I moved to the mainline things got much easier. That track is on cork roadbed which is glued to plywood. Tapping the rail had the ballast jumping off the ties and the ballast didn't float while glueing. The only place that was testy were the ties that were glued in place between the sections of flex track. That is understandable.
On another note I found using wet water worked better than alcohol when I had space to spray. A fine misting didn't disturb the ballast like dispensing the alcohol from a pipette did. On the other hand in those tight spots wet water wasn't as good.
NorthBritWho was it that came up with the idea that gluing down ballast was the way to go? I see many modelers holding back on ballasting for fear of getting glue everwhere and making a mess. As I mentioned earlier, I ballast the track dry and leave it. No glue, wash-up liquid whatever. Simple really.
I can't say for certain, but it dates back, at least for me, to the mid-'50s although there's a good chance that that it started long before that. When I was a kid, my father built a 4'x8' layout for me, and all of the track (brass rails on fibre ties) was ballasted, with the ballast glued in-place.That was also used on the ground cover, which in those days was sawdust tinted dark green, and if you wanted some bushes, clumps of dyed lichen would do the trick.
The is absolutely no way I would have a layout without gluing down all of the ground cover, whether ballast or scenic material, as use of my shop vac is my method of cleaning track and pretty-well anything else that has dust on it. There usually isn't much dust, unless I'm working on adding to the layout, as I did when adding the partial second level to my layout.Ballasting track is one of my favourite pastimes, and it, along with painting rail, is one of the biggest "bangs for your buck" that you'll get in model railroading, as it changes a toy-like scene into something much more realistic.
If you use the right materials, it's also very easy to remove glued-down ballast and/or ground cover if you wish to make changes to the track or scenery.
Wayne
I just don't see how anyone who has any sort of operation on their railroad would ever consider loose ballast.
The GF had a decorative plate loosely filled with beach sand and a few shells picked up from the beach. It was a nice, beachy decoration. (We do live at the beach.)
She also had two cats, and never a problem, until one cat crossed the Rainbow Bridge, and another soon came into our home. It was only a few days until he, actually being a good cat but in the wrong place, used the decorative sand plate as a decorative cat box. Shortly thereafter, he found the bag of real kitty litter in the laundry room, and that loose litter became another impromptu cat box.
I would worry about loose ballast or kitty litter if you have a cat, particularly a young male. Don't tempt them.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
doctorwayne hbgatsf ...I have been working on ballast for the past week and this is the part that I am having problems with as I can't seem to master tapping on the rails with a brush handle or spoon to get the ties clear. I use a paper cup to dump the ballast onto the track and the shoulders of the cork roadbed, then use a soft 1" brush, held almost parallel with the track, to drag the excess along, towards the track that has not yet had ballast applied - do not use the brush in a sweeping motion, as it will simply spray the loose ballast all over the place. To remove the particles of ballast left on the top of the ties, the key to using the brush handle is to grasp the ferrule very lightly, with the brush as close as possible to level, then use your forefinger and middle finger alternately to rapidly and lightly tap the brush handle as you move it along the track. This will cause the excess ballast on the tie-tops to bounce into the spaces between the ties. This method works well with both real rock ballast and the lighter ballast from Woodland Scenics. I was skeptical the first time I tried it, but it works like a charm. Wayne
hbgatsf ...I have been working on ballast for the past week and this is the part that I am having problems with as I can't seem to master tapping on the rails with a brush handle or spoon to get the ties clear.
I use a paper cup to dump the ballast onto the track and the shoulders of the cork roadbed, then use a soft 1" brush, held almost parallel with the track, to drag the excess along, towards the track that has not yet had ballast applied - do not use the brush in a sweeping motion, as it will simply spray the loose ballast all over the place.
To remove the particles of ballast left on the top of the ties, the key to using the brush handle is to grasp the ferrule very lightly, with the brush as close as possible to level, then use your forefinger and middle finger alternately to rapidly and lightly tap the brush handle as you move it along the track. This will cause the excess ballast on the tie-tops to bounce into the spaces between the ties.
This method works well with both real rock ballast and the lighter ballast from Woodland Scenics. I was skeptical the first time I tried it, but it works like a charm.
All the same here except the paper cup. I have one of those ballast spreader tube things MICRO-MARK #84115 with holes in the bottom. Ballasting goes so fast and nice. I've use mostly WS FINE ballast and a little of other manufactures. My spreader has been modified, it normaly will do center and both sides at the same time. It has been modified to do center only, side only or the other side only. Oh and I think the rubber scraper on the bottom to scrap the ties has a groove to miss the heads of track center nails.
Just finished ballasting after finally reaching a point where enough scenery is done. I have N scale and used plastic spoon to spread ballast but always have those accidental dumps of ballast. Tried an empty tic tack type container that held breath mints. The small opening is easily guided between the rails while I tap on the container to ease the ballast out. Works well along the sides as well. I brush and glue middle first so I can vacuum up what gets in the middle while doing the sides. No full proof way, inevitable you have to do a final chip away of random grains, especially with code 55. I can't see how you can get away with not glueing ballast down. I have vacuumed track many times to remove loose scenery and could not do that if ballast was not glued down.
NorthBrit rrebell ------- and if you don't fix it and one grain gets into a switch, bad news. True. A bit of glue into a switch? There we differ. The beauty of railroading. David
rrebell ------- and if you don't fix it and one grain gets into a switch, bad news.
------- and if you don't fix it and one grain gets into a switch, bad news.
For ballasting, I've not glued it down yet either to ensure I'm satisfied with the trackwork. It's been going fine and will glue the ballast soon. Until then, I've found PLENTY of other things to do.
I too use a craft brush to slide ballast along the track after applied with a Dixie cup.
I believe Lion also uses cat litter as ballast, that is held only by gravity. I can't see someone vacuuming the layout very easily with that approach.
As for ballasting, I applied Dr. Wayne's approach and find it works very well. I also agree that applying small quantities is the secret. Removing excess material is a pain. After it is cured, I apply a stiff brush to remove any small pieces that remained on top of the ties (which sometimes happens when applying the detergent).
Simon
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
Now scale has something to do with it and type of ballast. Now I am in HO and I glue the ballast down with a matt medium mix but even as I groom it for gluing I have many times moved the ballast out of position and if you don't fix it and one grain gets into a switch, bad news.
Just a thought.
Who was it that came up with the idea that gluing down ballast was the way to go?
I see many modelers holding back on ballasting for fear of getting glue everwhere and making a mess.
As I mentioned earlier, I ballast the track dry and leave it. No glue, wash-up liquid whatever. Simple really.
Just a thought - Who said glue the ballast down? Why?
David
wrench567You have to resist the urge of putting too much down.
+1
Regards, Ed
In regards to ballast... I use code 100 Model Power brass flex track on cork roadbed with Atlas turnouts. Both nailed to plywood. All track joints soldered. DC operation, blocks cut with Dremel tool. Ballast is kitty litter. Nothing is glued down. This has remained for 30 years with no issues. Change to track work is easily done. There are many variations of kitty litter....find one acceptable to your eye and buy several big jugs. You're good to go for years. Enjoy!
You have to resist the urge of putting too much down. I use a plastic spoon and kinda let the bumping ties as I tilt the spoon. Then it's a quick thumb rub. On the sides I let the ballast run off the side of the spoon. Lighten up on the volume of ballast is the key. You can always add more if needed.
Pete
A fan brush works well for me. Seams to be good for decent control because of it being so thin.
SHane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
MisterBeasley Back years ago when I was using Code 100 track, I found ballasting difficult, partially because the tie depth was so large. Someone suggested running an old electric razor down the rails to vibrate the track gently and settle the ballast. As I recall, it worked pretty well.
Back years ago when I was using Code 100 track, I found ballasting difficult, partially because the tie depth was so large. Someone suggested running an old electric razor down the rails to vibrate the track gently and settle the ballast. As I recall, it worked pretty well.
Soon after I joined here in January 2005, I saw a post where tapping the rails with the applicator brush handle worked well. I have used that technique to pretty decent effect. I'd give it an A-.
I use a long bristled camel hair brush to groom ballast, but I do glue it. I don't want it migrating anywhere due to vibrations of passing rolling stock, or to inadvertently knock it askew, even with derailing items. So, I glue.
Pour a healthy bead midships, between the rails, maybe a foot long. Then, commence with long strokes, not letting the bristles bend too much, or gather too much material. Maybe twenty strokes later, first between the rails and then over the rails to get the grains out to the tie ends, the rest is just wetting and glueing.
I keep wondering if a model version of a ballast broom would work if the bristles are set maybe .20 above the tie. Enough to catch any on the tie but clear that which is in between.
shane
hbgatsf mbinsewi I just used a brush, and "swept off" the ballast. What I don't get, with the vacuum, and the ballast not glued down, one would think that it would suck it all up. Mike. I am using Woodland Scenics fine ballast and the brush method just doesn't get it all off. Rick
mbinsewi I just used a brush, and "swept off" the ballast. What I don't get, with the vacuum, and the ballast not glued down, one would think that it would suck it all up. Mike.
I just used a brush, and "swept off" the ballast.
What I don't get, with the vacuum, and the ballast not glued down, one would think that it would suck it all up.
Mike.
I am using Woodland Scenics fine ballast and the brush method just doesn't get it all off.
hbgatsf...I have been working on ballast for the past week and this is the part that I am having problems with as I can't seem to master tapping on the rails with a brush handle or spoon to get the ties clear.
Rich and Charles.
On all my layouts I have made over the years I have never glued down the ballast.
I know it goes against 'the rules' and have been 'reprimanded' by some members of a Forum I am on here in the U.K.. Not that I am worried.
Most of my locomotives are 40-50 years old and still run well. In fact my eldest grandson is here ad has been running my oldest locomotive I have and it ran perfectly.
When we move house or I want to alter the track layout a simple clearing of the ballast, unpin the track and that is it.
The only challenge I have had is relaying old track thinking it is okay. That has nothing to do with loose ballast, but I renewed it quickly.
Gluing down the ballast is definitely not my way.
When ballasting, I use a chunk of cork roadbed which happens to be about HO width. I use it as a sort of bulldozer to push the ballast down to the level of the tops of the ties, and scrape away ballast from the inner edge of the rail where the spike heads (or for Atlas track, the shoe boxes) are. I then do the same for the outer sides of the rail. Then I apply the Scenic Cement (or diluted matte medium, or a distilled water/white glue/isopropyl alcohol/india ink mix) in a pipette or drop applicator. I do NOT touch the ballast then even if I see something wrong until it hardens. Then I go over it again with that cork bulldozer and generally try to recapture and reuse any ballast that is bulldozed up (it may need to go thru a sieve). Sometimes ballast needs to be reapplied here and there; sometimes the liquid cement application causes a bit of a crater or bulge that needs to be addressed. After yet one more run with the cork bulldozer, and again trying to capture and save any ballast that is brushed up, only then do I vacuum. Sometimes I need to do a bit more to get rid of the stray grains of ballast that stick to the sides of rails or the tops of ties. If there is quite a bit of that, one more vacuuming might be needed.
Ideally when I ballast I like to have enough materials, and enough time, to do several feet of track at a time.
I know David Barrow was experimenting with loose grains of ballast years ago -- not really fully ballasting the track, a very thin application of grains. Of course that was also when he was experimenting with not even tacking down his flex track, and his structures were reresentation and made of white foam-core. He was a minimalist for a time and his goal was to be able to change his layout regularly. It was a phase that he grew out of I believe but he gave it a fair trial.
Dave Nelson
NorthBritI have never glued the ballast down.
I would be very interested in hearing your results on this method too.
To be honest, it never occured to me to not glue the ballast down was a workable option.
I always thought the ballast police would come after me if it wasn't glued.
charles
NorthBrit I go for the simple approach. Pin the track down and dry ballast. I have never glued the ballast down. David
I go for the simple approach.
Pin the track down and dry ballast.
I have never glued the ballast down.
Rich
Alton Junction