The first picture in earlier series is a clue. The upper subroadbed is on risers. Under each edge of the bridge is the OSB subroadbed. Had I not had to tear down that layout I would have added more bridge support detail and concrete wings etc.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761There is no subroadbed or plywood under the bridge. There wasn't enough clearance for tall cars to pass under it.
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
@Riogrande, it was instructive to see your cardboard strips process.
I figured it would be more helpful to see the steps of the scenery support rather than finished photo's where you can't see how it was constructed.
Your first photos show a bridge where one track crosses another, but the abutments are not yet installed in that photo, and that spot is out of frame in later photos. I reckon since there is another subroadbed piece of plywood there, you just stood them on the lower board.
There is no subroadbed or plywood under the bridge. There wasn't enough clearance for tall cars to pass under it. I used a stout piece of metal I bought at home depot which was thin and had was able to support the track at the bridge.
doctorwaynethe abutments were made using .060" sheet styrene, with the bottom edges carved to more-or-less follow the contours of the plaster-on-screen "ground".
doctorwayneProbably more info than you wanted...
selectorBy that, I mean only to encourage people finding their way through this marvelous, complex, hobby to master a technique to the extent they are able, or wish to, and thence to move on and tackle another method.
crossthedog Thanks for all these great photos. Wow, you guys have really well-established and well-documented scenery processes. I'm impressed. ... @Selector, it sounds like all the weight of your scenery (a whole inch thick everywhere!) is borne by just the screen and whatever it's attached to. That surprised me a little. Seems it would be really heavy. Anyway, your countryside scene is stunning. ... -Matt
Thanks for all these great photos. Wow, you guys have really well-established and well-documented scenery processes. I'm impressed.
...
@Selector, it sounds like all the weight of your scenery (a whole inch thick everywhere!) is borne by just the screen and whatever it's attached to. That surprised me a little. Seems it would be really heavy. Anyway, your countryside scene is stunning.
-Matt
I am very pleased that you can appreciate this method, and that it appeals to you. Now, I'm gonna say something that might cause some tightened jaws, but please, guys, it's not really meant to be taken seriously:
You're not a real model railroader unless you can do anything at least two ways.
By that, I mean only to encourage people finding their way through this marvelous, complex, hobby to master a technique to the extent they are able, or wish to, and thence to move on and tackle another method. I have so far done the stacked and shaped/rasped extruded foam insulation board thing, the plaster cloth thing, the ground goop over screen thing, and most recently stacked foam over which I glued sheets of thin, low loft, polyfiber stuffing. I haven't nailed that last one, but I'm surprised and pleased enough that I have left my latest attempt in place on the layout. I'll want to improve it at some point, but I have other priorities right now for the layout's completion.
When you pick a method, study it in detail, do dioramas and mockups to figure out what works and what won't for you, and then have at it. Another time, or maybe on another half of your layout's scenery, try another technique. It can work rather well, and it'll be seamless.
crossthedogI am particularly interested in the abutments for that high bridge. What are they standing on? They can't be just mounted on the scenery... or? Did you just make a flat spot in the scenery wherever an abutment was to go?
If you're referring to this photo...
...the abutments were made using .060" sheet styrene, with the bottom edges carved to more-or-less follow the contours of the plaster-on-screen "ground".
The footings for the support towers used the same material, but it was stacked and cemented together using solvent-type cement. I then used a coarse file to create the sloped tops. The bottoms of the footings were also carved/filed/sanded to more-or-less match the ground. Each footing has a piece of.060" diameter piano wire projecting from its top, and each support leg has styrene plate cemented to the bottom, complete with a .060" hole, so the bridge simply clips into place. Here's one of the footings of another bridge, showing the piano wire onto which the support legs fit...
All of the five major bridges on my layout were designed to be removeable as single units, although the one surrounded by trees may be a bit difficult to remove without damaging the trees.
Here's one in place...
...and with the five-span bridge removed...
The bridge abutments and piers were all cast using Durabond-90 patching plaster, in homemade moulds, like these...
Probably more info than you wanted...
Wayne
@Matt the only downfall I've found for the cardboard strip method is when you goto poke a hole to plant a tree you will meet the bouncy cardboard.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
Super job Wayne, I figured it was similar to mine , I just completed installing my Walthers 90' Built up , it was in storage for many years and other than me having to clean each tooth in the motor gear track in the pit, it's working fine. I think with indexing I would definitely prefer the manual operation.
@Riogrande, it was instructive to see your cardboard strips process. Your first photos show a bridge where one track crosses another, but the abutments are not yet installed in that photo, and that spot is out of frame in later photos. I reckon since there is another subroadbed piece of plywood there, you just stood them on the lower board.
@Lynn, same in your photo. It looks like you can just rest the abutment on the lower plywood. Do you have places where there's nothing below? By the way, that rock face is amazing.
Likewise @Wayne, I'm surprised to hear that you can actually lean on your scenery and it won't collapse. I am particularly interested in the abutments for that high bridge. What are they standing on? They can't be just mounted on the scenery... or? Did you just make a flat spot in the scenery wherever an abutment was to go? This is very like the situation I have.
Thanks all,
First subroadbed laid on risers on the open grid benchwork.
Then card board strips with hot glue for terrain.
Then plaster cloth.
Added a mesa on the top of the above area:
Opposite corner has gotten some hillside and the flat area is the beginnings of a lake:
Corner before filling in with cardboard strips.
End is filled in now and river banks.
Started adding plaster cloth to area after cardboard in.
Thanks for the kind words, Lynn.
The turntable is Walthers un-powered 90'er. I added a small self-contained motor and gearbox from, I think, a scanner. While it worked well enough, it was a real hit-or-miss without indexing. I removed the motor, and plan to increase the drag on the shaft, making it operable with a fingertip, as it's only inches from the edge of the layout.The photo below (click to enlarge) shows the scratchbuilt (but not yet complete or painted) arch, along with the handrails made with phosphor-bronze wire and Athearn diesel-handrail stanchions, along with a scratchbuilt operator's cab...
With the layout's fascia visible to the right, you can see how close to the edge the turntable actually is. I should also mention that this turntable is on the partial upper level of my layout.
This one, on the lower (main) level of the layout, is pretty-much scratchbuilt, with a couple of hacked-up Atlas through-girder bridges fastened to a block of wood, which rotates on a beater shaft from a kitchen mixer. It's only 89' long due to limited available real estate, and is finger-operated...
Nice scenes Wayne, what kind of turntable is that?
The main level of my layout is open grid. Some areas have plywood where there are streets and structures, while some other areas may have plywood to support one or two structures, with other structures on the surrounding scenery (Durabond-90 patching plaster over aluminum screen - supported, where necessary, with risers from the grid). Some risers may stay in place, but the majority are removed, to be used elswhere.The scenery will easily support my weight if I'm leaning on it, but I doubt that I could stand on it.Here are some views showing risers supporting track (there are a lot of grades on my layout, as it has a partial upper level, supported by welded steel brackets...
...to the right is some not-yet-sceniced area, with at least one riser under the plaster-on-screen scenic contours...
This area is plaster-on-screen, but the support risers have been removed...
...eventually, most of this area will be covered in trees.
This area is pretty-well all plaster over screen (some risers may or may not still be in place). The road was added atop the plaster landforms, using more plaster.
The stepped plywood, shown below, will eventually have a street and houses on it, with low-relief structures along the wall, and the backs of truncated houses facing the tracks, with foreshortened backyards....
...here's another view of the nearby area, with only the factory and the track atop plywood. Everything beyond that use plaster-over-screen...
This area is plaster-on-screen, with the bridge and its footings added...
...and here's the same area, in the process of getting some scenery...
...and the scene later...
The partial upper level is also open grid, but completely covered with plywood. If I wish to add any scenic contours, it can be done with plaster-over-screen (supported where necessary) or with extruded styrene sheets....
Here are a few views of the only portion with some scenery...
A picture would help but I generally work upward from the grid and build abutments off the base. https://photos.app.goo.gl/FmanFjgcvYLNorFC8
I use plastic or metal window screen cut into sections and hot glued to supports rising up out of the frame and some cross-members or joists that are strategically placed to allow them to support risers. Over the basic land contours that the screen forms, I slather a goop of plaster of Paris, Portland cement, and fine-ground vermiculite, but I also add powdered masonry dyes ('brown', and 'mesa') to make it look like soil.
So, more succinctly, joists to which risers are affixed, and over that is glued wide swaths of window screen. Onto that, I layer about 1" of 'ground goop.'
The image below shows some of what I mean, vertical or horizontal supports, the sheets of window screen cut from a larger roll, and the second image shows the finished product with bushes, grasses, trees added over the goop.
Hey Team,
I have a sort of hybrid benchwork with stringers spanning two long parallel L-girders. I did this specifically so that I could make valleys or rivers deeper than track level. But now I'm thinking about how to support ravines and the bottoms of rivers. In a particular case, I have a through girder bridge near the outside edge of the layout, where the track is supported by a length of plywood subroadbed. Underneath this is a five foot drop to the garage floor. I need to put abutments under the ends of the bridge, but there's nothing there but space. I suppose I could cantilever some plywood support out from the nearby benchwork. I'm having trouble picturing how the abutments and all the surrounding terrain would be affixed to anything.
Thoughts?
Thanks,