Here goes - you can put me in the camp of people who were interested in model trains at an early age and then after a 40 year hiatus are re-aquainting themselves with the hobby (HO scale).
This is where I am at - I just finished my bench work - it is an 18' long by around 6' wide dog bone shaped layout. I am using 1" - 2" foamboard for the base on 1/2" plywood and am planning on laying 100 code track on cork. I am using DC for power. I created a scale layout on the computer using Railmodeller Pro that I am going to follow and am about to start laying track.
Here is the question/ advice please- I am in need of a peptalk on how to start to lay the track and cork properly. It looks to me that there are many pitfalls I could fall into if the direction of the track goes askew or if track doesn't line up etc.
For example - it seems to me that I should start at a point with fixed track like the 9" straight pieces and then use the flex track when I get to it as my sort of wiggle room to make sure everything fits together. How does that sound?
Any thoughts or advice on how to start? It seems a bit overwhelming....
Thanks.
A few questions first: Are you starting from scratch, or do you have stuff you've already bought? How wide do plan your curves to be? Will your layout be a rectangle, or irregularly shaped?
I also took a 40 year vacation from model railroading. I had everything in boxes and carried it with me for all that time. I made mistakes, so I will tell you about some of them.
First, the track. Don't try to reuse old brass track. It tarnishes easily and needs more frequent and more agressive cleaning. Go with nickel silver track. I also built the first section of my layout with Code 100 track, but later sections are all Code 83. I think it looks better and trains stay on the track just as well. I don't see any need for sectional track. I use flex track everywhere.
Have you looked at other options, like a narrower around-the-walls layout? My original section was a 5x12 foot rectangular table. It was accessible from all sides, but the rule of thumb about a 30 inch reach from the edge is a good one, even stretching it a bit.
A lot of modelers run DCC now. I really like it, particularly the ability to run locomotives independently. It's something to consider.
You will have more reliable performance with a system of bus wires and feeders to power your track. I also use lighting buses for structures and street lights. I install the bus wires first, before laying any track.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
It would help to know what type of track you are using and how are you planning to attach the cork and track.
For example, you seem to be mixing sectional and flex track, as opposed to using all flex track.
Generally what I do is paint the surface with an earth color.
Then I draw the track center lines. I may also make a mark where the throwbar on the switches are for reference, extending the mark out past where the cork will be.
I lay the roadbed (cork) on the centerlines.
I lay the track on the cork following the center lines. Generally I will lay the switches and curves first and then connect them with the rest of the track, trimming the flex track to fit.
I cut rail and flex track with "rail nippers", or flush cutting pliers. They are available from Micro Mark and hobby shops from Xuron and most electronics stores sell them. When you cut the rail, put the "flat" side of the cutters towards the piece of track you are cutting. Then smooth the cut with a file and remove any burrs. Track can also be cut with a cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Thanks for your response. Here are some answers to your questions.
I bought new nickel silver track even though I have a bunch of the brass track from the 70's. I want to avoid that pitfall from the start.
The layout design reflects space contraints and the 30" reach rule of thumb. The bench work physically looks like a dog bone - fat on the ends to make 22" min radius curves and thin in the middle to give physical access to all the track.
I have been reading a lot of the old and new MRR mags - resubscribed, got the CD's that featured the 2000 - 2019 years as well as the CD with the annual payout planning editions. I have been devouring them as well as lurking here on the forum to get as much info as possible before starting.
I am one of those people who really enjoy the researching and planning before the execution part. But when the execution part comes I start procrastinating - I think largely for fear of making a wasteful mistake.
Thanks for your suggestions re the DCC. I know from the reading that DCC is superior in a lot of ways but I think I could enjoy DC just as much since I will be a lone operator. I like the idea of blocking sections of track and learning the skills of wiring and soldering.
But back to the track laying part - maybe I should ask it this way - with the whole bench a blank slate to fill where did you start and why did you start there?
Could you explain how you installed the bus wires first prior to laying the track? Did you have the track marked where it was going to go so the wires would be in proper proximity?
Thanks,
charles
Thanks for your response -
I plan on gluing the cork to the foamboard and pinning the track to the cork rather than gluing. I am using code 100 sectional and flex track.
Can track be painted successfully after being laid or should it really be before?
Thanks for describing how you lay your track that is very helpful! Let me ask you this - for the flex track - does it matter which side the movable rail goes in a curve - on the inside or outside?
to the Model Railroader Forums ABC! (I'm feeling a little lazy today.)
I'm not a fan of layouts on foam, so I won't go into detail on that.
However, I'd suggest using your proposed trackplan to replicate it in full-scale, by drawing a centre-line for all of the proposed track. This should allow you to see if everything fits, and if there are any problem areas, such as curves that are too tight or too close to the edge of the layout. Where there are parallel tracks, you can also test for clearances, especially on curves and where longer locos or rolling stock will be used.
The centre line is also a good guide for installing the cork roadbed, once any problem areas have been addressed.If you already have code 100 flex track on-hand, and it's not brass, you might as well use it - once it's in place and the sides of the rails are painted, it won't look too glaring.If it's brass, I'd strongly suggest going to code 83, in nickel-silver, and in 3' (or metre) lengths. It's a better choice, especially if your layout plan has a few places where the curves don't match-up to fixed radii.A yardstick and/or sighting-by-eye can ensure that your areas of straight track are actually straight, and if you drill a few pencil-sized holes in the yardstick and add a nail to act as a pivot point, you can lay-out the centrelines of the curves, too.
Wayne
AblebakercharlieIt looks to me that there are many pitfalls I could fall into if the direction of the track goes askew or if track doesn't line up etc. For example - it seems to me that I should start at a point with fixed track like the 9" straight pieces and then use the flex track when I get to it as my sort of wiggle room to make sure everything fits together. How does that sound?
Hi ABC,
This is the first time I will have responded to someone ELSE's cry for help. I joined about when you did and I have reaped heaps of useful info from the gang here. But take my comments with a grain or two of NaCl, since I'm barely even ahead of you down the pike. I've laid my cork and I'm now practicing my soldering chops so I can put some track down.
Good luck and let us know how it's going.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Hello All,
The more details you can provide the better the great folks on these forums can help.
So many questions have been posed by responders without answers.
A vague, verbal description of your track plan doesn't help either.
Unfortunately, to post images here you need a third-party hosting site, which can be a frustrating process.
I'm not a fan of track on cork, so I won't go into detail on that.
From the "had I known then what I know now" realm...
As has been posted, I would have painted the base- -in my case foam as well- -before laying track.
I used only sectional track on my pike. For the discrepancies in plan to reality, I fabricated my own flex track.
Check out this thread on the process: DIY Flex Track
I've used this same method to "customize" curved turnouts to fit my needs as well.
Several "tools" will also make the process easier.
"T" pins are an immense help in positioning roadbed and/or track; curved or straight, along with securing track to said roadbed. The 2-inch version is the most versatile. These can be found at craft stores and online, which will be much cheaper than acquiring them through railroad-specific hobby retailers.
Although I used sectional track, with set radii, I still needed a way to find the center lines of the curves for the roadbed.
For this I fabricated trammels. I made them out of wooden yardsticks; found at most hardware/home improvement stores.
The three radii I was dealing with were: 15-, 18-, and 22-inches. For these, I cut the yardsticks at 17-, 20- and 24-inch lengths.
The "zero" point of the trammel will actually be at the 1-inch mark on the yardstick. The setpoint will be one inch (recommended) from the end of the cut length, hence the extra 2-inches over the actual radii.
At the zero point (1-inch mark), I drilled a hole, on the mid-line, large enough for a nail to be placed.
On the other end (at the set radii mark) I drilled a hole large enough for a pencil or Sharpie marker to fit through.
From the end of the straight section of track I placed the marker end on the centerline.
After determining the center point of the radius, I pushed the nail into the foam, then drew the centerline of the curve.
For "S" or asymmetrical curves I moved the center point and scribed the arc. For curves that didn't exactly match I added a small straight section of track as an easement or transition.
After the centerlines were marked it was a matter of adhering the two halves of the split roadbed along these lines for the curves.
The straight sections of roadbed were aligned with the center lines at the ends of each piece and another yardstick, used as a straight edge, was used to ensure their trueness.
From there the track was fixed to the roadbed.
The tangents of the turnouts were marked in with the same method but placing the marker at the center of the diverging route.
Even though I used straight sectional track, I began the process of track laying with the longest section of straight track with the turnouts included.
After my initial track was installed I found that I still needed to make adjustment in the plan for optimal running.
Again, answers to questions posted always help, and...
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Ablebakercharliefor the flex track - does it matter which side the movable rail goes in a curve - on the inside or outside?
The moveable rail goes on the inside of the curve. You can cut off the extra that will result on the ends.
When I went to start track on my layout, I started out at the location that had the most complex trackwork and worked outward from there.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
The way I laid out my last layout was I got old brass, steel, whatever sectional track and laid it out, found out what worked and didn't before any roadbed was laid. Then I marked the centerline of what I liked (you can use the same sectional track many times on the same layout by laying sections and marking and moving on).
Thanks everyone for your input. Greatly apprecitated.
I'm going to digest all of your great suggestions and then start laying some track today. If I run into any snags I'll let you know.
Aside from how you secure the track (track nails vs adhesive), I lay my track using curves and turnout location as the "control" points. The rest fits to them.
- first I draw centerlines where the track will go, such as curve centerlines and straight area centerlines.
- for a yard, I line up where the turnouts will go keeping in mind the turnouts at either end may have to match up with curves.
Here you can see how i drew center lines so that easement were built in where they join the straight away. The flex track gently spirals away from the curve centerline about 9 inches from the meeting point and joins the straight line about 9 inches past the meeting point. The result is a smooth flowing eased curve.
1) draw center lines.
2) "dry" lay the track to make sure critical points line up and work as predected and so the track will flow smoothly.
3) fasten the track down (in yards may be fastened directly to the substrate or mainline area's you may want to fasten down cork first with the inside split edge on the centerline.)
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Thanks very much for the pics to illustrate your technique. Very helpful.
I love the even spacing you have for all the tracks even through the curves.
- charles
Ablebakercharlie Thanks everyone for your input. Greatly apprecitated. I'm going to digest all of your great suggestions and then start laying some track today. If I run into any snags I'll let you know.
This may seem like more work than what is needed, but here is my advice.
I would start by using 22 inch radius sectional track and form the blobs first to see how they fit.
If you have a nest of several turnouts close together, possibly if it creates crossings, lay those out too.
Fill in the center part with flex track or sectional as needed. As you do this, you may find that you might have to adjust the angles/position of turnouts to avoid sharp curves or kinks or funky little S curves.
Since this is your first layout, and its modest sized, I would layout all of the track on to the foam if you can "dry" as RioGrande put it. (if you have grades and over under situation this might not be doable)
I would then trace the track.
Take up the track and draw a center line through the track lines. This is where you will lay each half of the cork roadbed (starting with the backside half so you can see the center line....duh). And secure it. Those track lines now become irrelevant.
This should get you to a good place in transferring your plan on paper to your cork roadbed, having worked out the angles and fitment by laying out all of the track beforehand.
Then simply lay the track on the roadbed, wire, and secure (or visa versa depending upon preference.)
- Douglas
I'm happy that my question provoked you to respond for the first time. I will take your advice to heart.
I've always been a lurker on forums, using them to learn from other people's questions instead of posting my own, so starting to post specific questions is completely new to me. I don't feel like such a luddite now! At least not so much...
Ablebakercharlie It looks to me that there are many pitfalls I could fall into if the direction of the track goes askew or if track doesn't line up etc. For example - it seems to me that I should start at a point with fixed track like the 9" straight pieces and then use the flex track when I get to it as my sort of wiggle room to make sure everything fits together. How does that sound?
[/quote]
Before installing bus wires, I already had a good idea where the track was going. It's not precise. Within a foot of the track is generally close enough. I built my layout using 2 inch foam over a wood frame, so I mostly just wanted to get small holes drilled correctly in the frame.
Develop a color code and stick to it. I use red and black for my track bus and generally blue and white for my lighting us. My track feeders use the same color code.
If you are using modular construction, you might want to think about terminal blocks on module boundaries. This may just seem like a nuisance now, but if you ever want to move the layout you'll be glad you did.
Ablebakercharlie Thanks very much for the pics to illustrate your technique. Very helpful. I love the even spacing you have for all the tracks even through the curves. - charles
There was some trial and error getting the curve center lines laid out. The reason is the parallel straight tracks are just a hair over 2 inches track centers, but the track centers on curves must be substantially wider apart so long rolling stock won't hit models on adjacent tracks.
Notice that radius's on these curves are not simply in incriments of 2 1/2 inches. They are what ever I could work out to maintain wider track centers and still line back up with the straights on either end.
If you click on the picture below, you can see a larger versoin where you can see the markings better.
And if you are wondering how I drew those curve center lines, I bought a 4 foot stick at Lowes and made a Trammel, which I can stick a pencil in one end and a small nail in the other and swing it around like a giant compass. In this case I managed to mount it on a camera tripod so I could posiition it just right to draw the curve center lines:
A trammel is almost a must for many of us. A screw driven through near one end of a length of lath or strapping. Then, about 15 inches out, begin drilling a 1/4" hole every inch until you run out of length. Label each hole per its purported radius value from that screw back yonder. Anchor the screw end, maybe on a tripod or something, place the tripod at a suitable location to be the center of the arc you're about to draw, insert sharpened pencil into the correct hole for the radius you intend, and draw what will be your centerline on whatever you're going to lay roadbed and then track on.
Just very quickly, when I am about to commence benchwork construction, and already have a reasonable plan drawn up to scale on large graph paper, I lay out my track plan using 1" masking tape, the cheapest I can buy. I use whatever flooring is going to be below the layout, and lay the tape out directly on the floor.
If my radii are all correct, and I haven't fudged turnout lengths/angles, and I get my mains to close the loop, then I know I can build my benchwork above this 'depiction' and it will all fit inside.
LastspikemikeAnother type of trammel substitute is a string on a nail.
Monofilament is better, but still 'elastic'. I think the right answer is hard solid wire.
This is like the situation where you excitedly tile out your trackplan from something like 3DPlanIt (sorry if dating myself here) only to find out that your printer isn't calibrated to produce exact 100% scale. I came upon this all unawares when doing Pasteur using an office copier -- each generation got smaller and smaller before I noticed it wasn't lining up. The 'traditional' way around this was the counterpart of the instruction to the blueprint service 'make this line exactly xxx inches' -- you draw a precise datum line, and adjust the print magnification in software until the output is as close as can be.
Of course sometimes cheaper printers turn out not to be precise, as well as not to be accurate...
AblebakercharlieBut back to the track laying part - maybe I should ask it this way - with the whole bench a blank slate to fill where did you start and why did you start there?
I would start with a piece of paper, a pencil, a "C-Thru" ruler and a circle template.
Then I would start designing the biggest, hardest to move things first. Turn back loops that have to go at the ends, large yards. Draw them to the scale of your drawing (3/4" to a foot scale, where 1/16" =an inch or 1 1/2" to a foot scale , where 1/8" = a foot.) If you want go to to a Walmart and buy a package of paper in the moving supplies area. Cheap pieces of big paper.
TRy drawing the different parts you want, the yard, a engine facility, a switching area or a particular industry. Scan them and print out copies to the drawing scale. Reverse the scans right to left and print out copies to the drawing scale. Then draw the benchwork footprint, cut out the various track plan parts from the copies and then play around rearranging them on the footprint. If you get close, then modify the drawing to be closer to what you want. That will allow you to figure stuff out without redrawing everything every time.
Another alternative is to scan a left and right hand switches in the size and type you want. Then make a couple dozen prints of the switches and cut them out. Use the full size print outs to "lay track" using the paper switches. You can attach them with tape, don't like it cut or pull of the tape and try again. That allows you to quickly see what the design will look like. Tape some packing paper to the benchwork and then tape or rubber cement the switches to it. I use a 4 ft long, 2 inch wide aluminum ruler to draw parallel tracks, very handy. Doing it full size you can set cars or locomotives on the plan to see how thing fit.
If you have flex track, you can position the paper switches and then use pins to locat the flex track to text curves and connections between switches.
Dental floss? I have used that stuff to repair backpacks and the woven backs of deck chairs.
Sounds like I should definitely add a trammel to the arsenal of tools that I have.
I like the idea of using a non-elastic material like wood and drilling holes at different points. Although dental floss does sound compelling....
It was just too hot yesterday in the garage where the benchwork is set up so I am going to wait till early evening tonight to start.
Thanks again everyone for your advice. I look forward to hitting you all up with more questions!
If the turn back blobs on a simple dogbone are going to be 22 inch radius, there is not much point to building a trammel that will draw a 22 inch radius center line. Just lay the 22 inch radius sectional track.
The point is that you might want to shift the loop side to side along the benchwork to accomodate slight changes to the plan. If this happens, you're not really saving any time by drawing the centerline first because you will just have to redraw the line or reposition the track any way.
No big deal though. Build the trammel and draw the line if you like.
I did a treatise on "Reliable Track" in the Rail Modeller Australia October 20 Magazine. You can download it at https://railmodelleraustralia.com/downloads.html
along with the 6 other issues to date, - a small donation would be helpful to keep the mag going
Hope this helps,
Cheers from Australia
Trevor
My layout is 2 inch foamboard on top of 1/2 inch plywood. Foamboard does not hold any kind of fastener and neither does cork. I didn't want to glue the track down because fixing problems, a kink, a too tight radius, whatever, is difficult to impossible. I like to put the track down with track nails so I can fix those little problems that always seem to come up. So I made all my roadbed from soft pine that will take track nails
I used my band saw to resaw 3/4 inch boards down to 1/4 inch. Then I cut each piece of pine roadbed to shape with the band saw and used my router table to put the 45 degree edges on it. In fact I bought the band saw just for doing the roadbed. It was only $50 off Craigs list for an old 12 inch Craftsman.
I used Tortoise under table switch machines which require a 1/2 inch hole to bring the operating rod up to the turnout. Since the holes cannot be relocated, I laid out the turnout and drilled the holes. Then I laid flex track right up to the turnouts. I had a supply of code 100 nickel silver flex track so I used it. After brush painting the sides of the rails with rail brown the rails looked a good deal smaller than they had with the entire rail bright nickel silver.
You want to get "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong. It is full of invaluable information.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Curious how the OP is making due on laying track. That's not an activity I'd wanna do in the summer. Give me the cool basement any day!
Since you asked....
It is going well! I'm taking it slow - working in the morning or the early evening when it is cooler in the garage, also have a fan blowing. I have about 80% of the track down. I have a 16ft run remaining that rises and falls about 2 inches so I am leaving that bit for last. I want to make a jig to run a strip of foam board on a table saw to get an even incline. Then I'll glue down the foamboard, add the cork on top and then pin down the track.
Testing the track so far I have had no serious derailments so my plodding is paying off. However, I am having an issue with running steam locos through switches but not the diesels. (getting hesitations or outright stopping) I am going to post a new subject query about this to ask the forum to help troubleshoot.
Looking forward to finishing the track and moving on to the wiring and then scenery.....
Ablebakercharlie Testing the track so far I have had no serious derailments
Testing the track so far I have had no serious derailments
Ablebakercharlie However, I am having an issue with running steam locos through switches but not the diesels.
However, I am having an issue with running steam locos through switches but not the diesels.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Ablebakercharlie Testing the track so far I have had no serious derailments No "serious" derailments? Isn't a derailment a derailment? Rich
No "serious" derailments? Isn't a derailment a derailment?