Thanks John for the link. Very interesting to know more about those grain elevators. Here in Québec, Canada we have the kind of circular one. The biggest are made of concrete but the smallest are near farms and I don't know what they are made of.
Stef
This video has nothing to do with the OP's topic, but here is some good video footage of what happens when grain dust and a heat source meet:
https://www.agweb.com/news/business/health/close-call-no-injuries-after-smoldering-grain-sparks-iowa-grain-elevator
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
hon30critter doctorwayne You've done a nice job on the weathering, Stef... I agree! Dave
doctorwayne You've done a nice job on the weathering, Stef...
I agree!
Dave
Thanks Dave. I am still not very happy with my decals. They look too young for this building. I tried to sand it a little bit but the decals keep moving when I do this.
Track fiddler Your grain elevator model looks great Stef. I like your weathering job as well TF
Your grain elevator model looks great Stef. I like your weathering job as well
TF
Thanks TF. I really like building kits. It's the fourth kit I finished since I began in the hobby four months ago.
doctorwayneYou've done a nice job on the weathering, Stef...
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
doctorwayne You've done a nice job on the weathering, Stef...lights or no lights. Wayne
You've done a nice job on the weathering, Stef...lights or no lights.
Wayne
Thank you. I am also happy with the result. A little bit less about the decals.
Lastspikemike Decalling an uneven surface is very tricky. The decal does not lie down into the grooves or other surface irregularities very easily. There are stronger decal softeners than Microsol. Tamiya makes a couple of levels of stronger softener for example. When softening decals aggressively it's very important not to move or even touch the decal until the softener has dried up. Also, when placing your model on your layout note where the engine house is relative to the main elevator in that prototype picture. That little flat roofed building is the engine house. These buildings were separated from the grain handling parts of the structures for fire safety reasons. The belt drives from the engine house into the elevator lifting machinery ran under the truck delivery area floor. McNab isn't all that far from where I live.
Decalling an uneven surface is very tricky. The decal does not lie down into the grooves or other surface irregularities very easily.
There are stronger decal softeners than Microsol. Tamiya makes a couple of levels of stronger softener for example.
When softening decals aggressively it's very important not to move or even touch the decal until the softener has dried up.
Also, when placing your model on your layout note where the engine house is relative to the main elevator in that prototype picture. That little flat roofed building is the engine house. These buildings were separated from the grain handling parts of the structures for fire safety reasons. The belt drives from the engine house into the elevator lifting machinery ran under the truck delivery area floor.
McNab isn't all that far from where I live.
Thanks for the information. I really appreciate.
Finally, here is the final result and the prototype I tried to model.
I had lots of difficulties with the decals on this model. I have used Micro-Set and Micro-Sol but they don't seem to stick to the model.
ScenerySheetsI've always been a big fan of lights on layouts - they just seem to add a bit liveliness and dimension. It looks like you've already received some mixed replies about lights on grain elevators specifically. As some pointed out its seems logical that it woud hve some light but the argument about the potential for fire also seems sound. That said, I imagine that somewhere there is probably at least one grain elevator somewhere that's lit up at night. And the ultimate answer is that if it looks right on your layout and in your scene then you should probably go for it. (You can always just not invite any grain farmers over to see the layout.)
Hi Dom,
Very well said!
Welcome to the forums!!
Stef,
Sometimes some forum members state things in absolute terms that may make the OPs feel as though they are wrong if they do things differently. We shouldn't take those pronouncements to heart. It's your railway. If you want lights in the grain elevator, then put lights in the grain elevator!
Cheers!!
I've always been a big fan of lights on layouts - they just seem to add a bit liveliness and dimension. It looks like you've already received some mixed replies about lights on grain elevators specifically. As some pointed out its seems logical that it woud hve some light but the argument about the potential for fire also seems sound. That said, I imagine that somewhere there is probably at least one grain elevator somewhere that's lit up at night. And the ultimate answer is that if it looks right on your layout and in your scene then you should probably go for it. (You can always just not invite any grain farmers over to see the layout.)
BATMANI just googled explosion-proof grain elevator light and got lots of images. Note the pipe, just as I remember.
When we built the CNG training center in Atlanta, the explosion proof light fixtures in the lab area looked almost exactyly like that. They were about $750.00 each, and looked like something from 1940.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
That was a nice find Brent, I guess that sums up safety lights for grain elevators or other high-risk explosive areas.
I would imagine that amber globe was shatter-resistant or shatterproof even though it had a guard on it.
The distributor was at the top of the elevator and if it got stuck or didn't seat properly usually caused by spilled grain someone would have to go clear it. At busy times the loading could go on all night and if someone had to go up they would need light.
I may be wrong but I think the lights would all be turned on before operation started as a spark is most likely to occur when the switch is flipped. Flipping the switch before things get going means fewer combustibles floating around inside.
So have a light, it works for me.
I just googled explosion-proof grain elevator light and got lots of images. Note the pipe, just as I remember.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
ModelTrainQuestion: I was thinking of maybe adding a light, in a few months, in the upper part of the elevator but I don't know if normally we can see lights inside a real elevator like this. What do you think?
There is a wide range of modeling thought here.
Are you aiming for absolute authenticity, or are you making a layout that is what you like but may not be accurate?
If you would like the look of some light coming from the windows, I'd say put it in. Who cares if it's completely accurate? You will like it, and that's the important thing.
I grew up on a fishing resort. Somewhat similar to farm life I reckon as there was ALWAYS LOTS of W**K to be done. One difference between a resort and a farm is hospitality, you have to be nice!
International Falls was 35 miles away. Our basement and garage were full of things that you think you would need if anything went wrong and something always went wrong!
If the thing you needed was not there, it wasn't like you could stop what you were doing and run to town. Not Today!!! Not with guests running all over the place needing a fishing license, minnows, gas, fish cleaned, pizza or Whatever!
You taped things back together good enough so to speak until the next time you went to town. Literally!
It would get to 40-50° below zero in the winter sometimes (Just see how fast you become an experienced furnace repair guy on a night like that), although you thought you bled all the water lines in the fall under each cabin perfectly Not even close as plumbing was extensive in the spring but some of those didn't show up until your guests were there. Many-a-times we had those rubber things with the clamps on a pipe to Band-Aid it until the time it could be done right. Black tape wrapped tight worked for a while if you ran out of clamps. Just one example of the many.
So if someone said to me, That doesn't look right Track Fiddler. I'd say "I know", I haven't been to town yet!
Nothing ever looked right anytime all the time. So if something doesn't look completely right on your layout, don't worry about it, that's the real world!
BATMAN There are no cookie-cutter examples of what things should be like as far as what we model.
That's the truth.
Looking on farms for standardization is a losing venture.
Down here, if you give a farmer an old school bus and a couple tons of angle iron, he can build anything.
I was very surprised to find out that "grove goats" are mostly custom made from used school buses.
My earliest ancestors settled in the Swan River Valley in Manitoba in the 1790s. My cousin married a kid off the farm in 1976 from Saskatchewan. In 1969 they were still using horses and wagons to take their grain to the elevator and had no running water or electricity on the farm. They were probably the last farm in Canada to be operating like that.
I live a very comfortable life in B.C. but have had plenty of exposure to ranch and farm life. There are no cookie-cutter examples of what things should be like as far as what we model, If the cattle bust a 2" x 8" board in the cattle pen and you grab a 2" x 10" to replace it, so what. Yet if you do that on the layout someone will point out sloppy modeling. "Not all your boards are the same" they will say.
The same goes for lighting the elevator. All-nighters loading railcars were commonplace at that time of year, just to provide space in the elevator and bins for more incoming grain the next day. City slickers telling how it was done and what was is a none starter.
I have a 4 x 4 F-350 p/u that rarely gets put in 4 wheel drive. I remember my Uncle saying he did not think his truck had ever been taken out of 4 wheel drive from the day he brought it home. Half the time I drove that thing around the ranch I was not even on a dirt path never mind a road. It is another world on the farm and/or ranch and unless you spend time there you are being presumptuous pretending to know what goes on.
I know nothing of grain elevators, but I have worked in hazardous and explosive environments that had electric lighting.
It was specialized hardware, but if you can have electric lighting in a concentration plant, sugar mill, or fertilizer plant, why not a grain elevator?
LastspikemikeI've lived on the Prairies for over 50 years. I've never seen a grain elevator lit at night.
Me neither.
Nicely done Stef!
ModelTrain Here is a photo of my progress right now. The elevator is almost completed. I only need to add the ladder
Here is a photo of my progress right now. The elevator is almost completed. I only need to add the ladder
I have visited a few elevators in the past when traveling across the Western Provinces and I am going from memory of what I learned from those visits most of which were decades ago. When electric light was introduced the lighting was specialized and actually called "grain elevator explosion-proof electric lighting". In Manitoba, I saw the packaging in my Uncle's basement in 1966.
A metal (lead?)pipe (steel conduit in later years) was run up the outside of the elevator and the colour of the light where the distributor was located up top was amber as just like fog lights, amber helps you see through the dust just as fog lights do on cars. The bulbs were specialized and placed inside a sealed glass covers. Sometimes there were also red and green lights at different locations around the elevator, I cannot remember what those colours were for.
Most of my photos are on slides in a box somewhere, but I did take this one about ten years ago that shows the covered bulbs and conduit. Up top, at a different elevator, the setup was the same but with an amber bulb or amber glass cover maybe and the wire ran through old steel pipe threaded at the joints.
I am no expert on the subject and yield to anyone that is.
BATMAN Lastspikemike Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling... How's this, better?
Lastspikemike Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling...
How's this, better?
Perfect! Actually I don't think you're too far off Brent. Makes perfect sense to me.
ETHANOL!!!
Apparently your grain elevator is stocked with corn
Besides the seal housings and special bulbs for lighting related to the old prairie grain elevators, new modern day precautions are much further advanced.
http://www.kcsupply.com/compliant-lighting-grain-handling-facility/
ModelTrain Track fiddler Question: Are those kinds of elevators still in use today? I live in Québec, Canada and I don't remember seeing one like those here. From what I have seen and the little I know is that here our grain elevators seems to be more circular and metallic in shape.
Track fiddler
Question: Are those kinds of elevators still in use today? I live in Québec, Canada and I don't remember seeing one like those here. From what I have seen and the little I know is that here our grain elevators seems to be more circular and metallic in shape.
Lastspikemike That's the classic small local elevator. There are still hundreds of these dotted all over the prairies and anywhere else out West where grain was grown. They are no longer used as far as I know. Since heavy trucks are able to haul large volumes of grain long distances driven by just one person these elevators have fallen into disuse. Custom feedmills or local seed cleaning perhaps. There's a working replica at our Heritage Park which is interesting to see. Grain is grown on the tiny farm which forms part of the mostly outdoor exhibit. There's a full sized railroad loop, Wye and turntable. Elevators like this were built every 7-10 miles apart with spurs to serve them. That was the maximum feasible distance a wagonload of grain could be hauled, emptied and returned to the farm in daylight. Even when grain was trucked initially the trucks were of the small variety pictured in the National Film Board short. If you have room and inclination one of these belongs on any layout placed in grain country. You really date your model if you show it in use. Anything pre 1940 presents no obstacle. But by the late 70's to maybe the late 80's you would not see a boxcar or hopper spotted on those elevator sidings. Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling... Note the elevator siding was graded very gently. This permitted one man to roll and spot the empty box car and also move the loaded one on down the siding. The process is one way all the way. Except for the elevation procedure. Note the "modern" boxcar juxtaposed beside the very old elevator. Note the high tech cardboard panel "reinforced" with sheet metal strapping the elevator guy nails to the inside doorframe. This would be in the 70's still. There are models of later boxcars with grain doors let into tops of the steel doors which duplicate these cardboard shields. Then, all of a sudden we get covered hoppers. 150 box cars per year become, what, 50-70 huge covered hoppers, top loaded. Pretty quickly the round hatch hoppers got replaced with trough filled hoppers, for speed. Then the heavy trucking of grain to huge unit train elevator complexes basically happened "overnight". Trucks go in and the loaded and tare weights taken in just one step. Boxcar strings are spotted "uphill" from the elevator spout and removed from the downhill side. The slope of the grade is imperceptible by casual look which is why the casual observer is impressed by the strength of the elevator man. He got all the City girls.... Note the danger sign shown in the video (it's actually a movie, remember those?) and the almost complete absence of metal anywhere in the elevator building. Certainly no metal to metal contacts were permitted in normal operation. The engine house is completely separate and the drive belts go under that wooden decking between the buildings. Note the use of a grounded trouble light when descending into the elevator pit to grease the machinery. Note also the heavy fall of grain dust (think very robust whole wheat flour, then think of those flour bombs from your childhood chemistry book) as the elevator man descends. Note all the dust everywhere, that's pure grain dust and highly explosive. Note the windows really high up. Those are for light, no electric lights up there. Somewhat ironically, the main man made danger was static electricity generated by the various belt drives.....kaboom for no apparent reason. I'm pretty sure no local elevator ever operated after dark. Dawn, sure but never after sundown.
That's the classic small local elevator. There are still hundreds of these dotted all over the prairies and anywhere else out West where grain was grown. They are no longer used as far as I know. Since heavy trucks are able to haul large volumes of grain long distances driven by just one person these elevators have fallen into disuse. Custom feedmills or local seed cleaning perhaps. There's a working replica at our Heritage Park which is interesting to see. Grain is grown on the tiny farm which forms part of the mostly outdoor exhibit. There's a full sized railroad loop, Wye and turntable.
Elevators like this were built every 7-10 miles apart with spurs to serve them. That was the maximum feasible distance a wagonload of grain could be hauled, emptied and returned to the farm in daylight. Even when grain was trucked initially the trucks were of the small variety pictured in the National Film Board short.
If you have room and inclination one of these belongs on any layout placed in grain country. You really date your model if you show it in use. Anything pre 1940 presents no obstacle. But by the late 70's to maybe the late 80's you would not see a boxcar or hopper spotted on those elevator sidings. Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling...
Note the elevator siding was graded very gently. This permitted one man to roll and spot the empty box car and also move the loaded one on down the siding. The process is one way all the way. Except for the elevation procedure.
Note the "modern" boxcar juxtaposed beside the very old elevator. Note the high tech cardboard panel "reinforced" with sheet metal strapping the elevator guy nails to the inside doorframe. This would be in the 70's still. There are models of later boxcars with grain doors let into tops of the steel doors which duplicate these cardboard shields. Then, all of a sudden we get covered hoppers. 150 box cars per year become, what, 50-70 huge covered hoppers, top loaded. Pretty quickly the round hatch hoppers got replaced with trough filled hoppers, for speed. Then the heavy trucking of grain to huge unit train elevator complexes basically happened "overnight".
Trucks go in and the loaded and tare weights taken in just one step. Boxcar strings are spotted "uphill" from the elevator spout and removed from the downhill side. The slope of the grade is imperceptible by casual look which is why the casual observer is impressed by the strength of the elevator man. He got all the City girls....
Note the danger sign shown in the video (it's actually a movie, remember those?) and the almost complete absence of metal anywhere in the elevator building. Certainly no metal to metal contacts were permitted in normal operation. The engine house is completely separate and the drive belts go under that wooden decking between the buildings. Note the use of a grounded trouble light when descending into the elevator pit to grease the machinery. Note also the heavy fall of grain dust (think very robust whole wheat flour, then think of those flour bombs from your childhood chemistry book) as the elevator man descends.
Note all the dust everywhere, that's pure grain dust and highly explosive.
Note the windows really high up. Those are for light, no electric lights up there.
Somewhat ironically, the main man made danger was static electricity generated by the various belt drives.....kaboom for no apparent reason.
I'm pretty sure no local elevator ever operated after dark. Dawn, sure but never after sundown.
Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation. I will not put any light inside this elevator.
Here is a photo of my progress right now. The elevator is almost completed. I only need to add the ladder and the spout. But the weathering has not began yet.
I also need to build the two other buildings in this kit: the storage bin and the office.
Question: What is the use of the storage bin? I thought all the grains were stored in the elevator. I am probably missing something.
LastspikemikeSlightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling...
Track fiddler I don't think you'll mind if I post your video Ed. Stef, I seen John even had a light on up there during the day right in front of the stairs I always liked this video
I don't think you'll mind if I post your video Ed.
Stef, I seen John even had a light on up there during the day right in front of the stairs
I always liked this video
Wow, thanks for this cool video. I am not just modelling but also learning about history, buildings ... Now I understand how an elevator grain works.
BATMANHands up all you MRRs that messed up in the construction of a model.
Me Me Me!