How do you tell the position of a turnout? ***Schematic Added***

[Anonymous]

spacemouse says:
What difference would that be from say wiring your switch normally...

scada:
I don't know what you mean by 'normally' but if you mean the way the schematic has it, the difference is that it keeps the power from running through the coils of the switch machine all the time. The way I described would be just like the Atlas Control Switches meaning, slide the switch to the left (or right) and push in momentarily to change the position of the switch. If you run DC to your controls you probably don't notice the constant power on the coil unless you touch it and feel how hot its getting. But if you ran AC you would hear the coil 'chatter' until you released the power.

dehct says:
Can rbturner's circuit run on AC instead of DC?

scada:
yes, AC or DC, but watchout for the constant power on the switch machine coils...


dehct also says:
My concern is that I'm using a Circuitron Snapper to power my Atlas UTT switch machines, and that unit outputs AC, doesn't it?

scada:
I don't know about the Circuitron, but every cheap power supply that comes with a train set has DC terminals to run your train and AC terminals to run the switches and other accys... AND the Atlas remote Snap switches come with a controller 'designed' to apply momentary power to the turnout machine.

[Anonymous]

Can rbturner's circuit run on AC instead of DC? Does the latching relay require DC? I know that LEDs generally are used on DC circuits, but they'll work just fine on AC (in my very limited experience). My concern is that I'm using a Circuitron Snapper to power my Atlas UTT switch machines, and that unit outputs AC, doesn't it?

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scadaman29325

If you added an inexpensive momentary pushbutton (normally open) to the negative (-) wire going just to the center terminal of the Atlas twin coil, you can eliminate the constant voltage across the twin coil and still have power to the LED side of the circuit.

If the button had 2 poles, you could wire it into the outside terminals...

I've seen this on control panels before, that is, a push button mounted right beside the toggle. Works similar to an Atlas Control switch, flip the toggle and then pu***he button to make the change.

scada

What difference would that be from say wiring your switch normally and just adding a spst switch next to it? Flip the switchs up: open the turnout; turn on light. Flip the switches down: close the turnout, turn off light.

[Anonymous]

If you added an inexpensive momentary pushbutton (normally open) to the negative (-) wire going just to the center terminal of the Atlas twin coil, you can eliminate the constant voltage across the twin coil and still have power to the LED side of the circuit.

If the button had 2 poles, you could wire it into the outside terminals...

I've seen this on control panels before, that is, a push button mounted right beside the toggle. Works similar to an Atlas Control switch, flip the toggle and then pu***he button to make the change.

scada

[rbturner]

Chuck/Randy, I am not saying anything bad about tortoise machines or guys who buy those $30 turnouts. I am in awe when I read about guys building their own turnouts. But for low budget and big rail empire guys like me we have to compromise. I am settling for $10 Atlas turnouts that I buy and pitch the controller. I buy a DPDT MOMENTARY for $1.04. It will control both the turnout and a latching relay (85 cents instead of a $9 Atlas relay) that will control my turnout position indicator lights. The lights themselves are 2 LEDS that I got in a lot of 300 for $10 as I recall. I am using 680 ohm dropping resistors that cost $2 for a 100. So a ballpark figure for the turnout, switches etc. is what $12.50? I have no idea what a tortoise costs or what some guys have invested in some of their layouts but it would be interesting to see what it cost per turnout on different layouts. I'd say mine may be near the cheapest. What is everyone else doing.

[rrinker]

Yep, Tortoises SEEM expensive, but to do all that you can with a Tortoise requires adding extras to the Atlas switch machines, and when you start adding all that, it adds up. What's a snap relay go for, PLUS the regular Atlas machine? And to reliably trigger it you really should consider a capacitor discharge power supply, although to be fair ONE of those will handle the entire layout. And pushbuttons always seem to be more expensive than toggle switches.

--Randy

[cwclark]

tortoise machines are wired using 12v but no more than 16v DC..the motors on tortoises run continuosly and "stall" as they reach the limit of travel...you can wire a tortoise using a SP/DT with a common wire or a DPDT switch in an "X" wiring schematic that reverses the polarity of the motor, so that the motor will run the other way and switch the turnout points...personally, i prefer the motor type turnouts over the coil type..they move slower and look more realistic..the coil type slam the point rails against the stock rails and wear them out quicker...if you want LED indication lights, then they can be wired directly in series with a tortoise motor without using resistors ..an Atlas coil type machine will require an atlas relay wired in parrellel with the Atlas switch machine and another DC power source of wires ran (with resistors) to accompli***he same indication LED lighting as a tortoise can...Chuck

[relation]

What about stall switch machines like tortoise are they wired the same way?

[rrinker]

It's just a coil of wire, it will work on either. However, with DC there will be a BIG arc when the switch contacts open and the magnetic field collapses in the coil. This is why you see, in circuits where a transistor or IC controls a relay, a diode across the relay coil lines. In a switch (electricla switch), the arcing just pits the contacts and wears them out over time. If that pulse got back to a transistor or IC, it would destroy it.
If you power twin-coil switch motors with a capacitor discharge system - the coils are being fired by DC too.

--Randy

[SpaceMouse]

I thought switch motors were AC. Can you wire them either?

[SpaceMouse]

Here's rbturner's schematic...



It doesn't enlarge for me. You can view it here:

http://www.vitaconnect.com/Photos/LEDSchematic.jpg

[rbturner]

I have the schematic drawn and scanned. Chip, I was unable to attach it to the email address above to send it to you. Everyone else that's interested, send me an email and I'll send it to you. Randy

[e-mail]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rbturner

I'll get it drawn up today guys. I may need help on how to get it posted on here.

Randy

You'll need a website to post it on. If you don't have one email it to me and I'll post it.

Chip

[rbturner]

I'll get it drawn up today guys. I may need help on how to get it posted on here.

Randy

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NZRMac

rbturner

I'd be interested in that circuit, it sounds like something I've been thinking of.

Email me directly if you want.

Ken.

By all means rbturner. Please post it.

[NZRMac]

rbturner

I'd be interested in that circuit, it sounds like something I've been thinking of.

Email me directly if you want.

Ken.

[rbturner]

I recently addressed this very problem and found few answers. My layout consists of 80 or so Atlas snap switches. I know, my credibilty begins to suffer here but please read on. I decided that the old Atlas controllers had to go because my arms were beginning to get too short to operate all of them. A control panel with diagrams like I see in MR was the ticket. I was also going to start having problems knowing the turnout position now that my Atlas controllers would be gone. I got advice on this forum to purchase Atlas relays to solve my lighting situation. They are about $8 a piece. That times 80 was too steep for me. I found 12 volt DC, DPDT, single coil, latching relays at allelectronics.com for $.85 each if I bought 100. So I did and mounted them under the control panel with a dab of silicone. They in turn feed a green and red LED with dropping resistor to their common leg that puts them at about 2 volts. I use a 12 DC, regulated power supply to feed this whole arrangement, both turnouts and the lighting; as they are both controlled by the DPDT (on) off (on) purchased from Demar electronics. I know the turnout motors are AC but they are operating with DC fine so far. I am no computer genius but I will be glad to draw a schematic up and attempt to put it on here if anyone is interested in my little victory.

Randy

[Anonymous]

Atlas snap switchs don't have contacts for a lite and being AC are only momentary on to switch. What I've done is glue a small styrene tab to the throw bar. Drill a 3/8" hole beside the throwbar and mount a Radio Shack window alarm reed switch in the hole. Radio Shack also has some very small ceramic magnets. I move one of the magnets around on the styrene tab till I figure out where it has to be to trigger the reed switch then glue it into place. The switch goes one way, the reed triggers. The other way, the reed is not triggered. I hook the reed switch up to switch a DPDT relay. The relay then controls what ever lights you want, and you get a positive indication of where the switch is physically. My indicator lights are a searchlight on each side of the switch with red and green lights on each. Which ever way the switch is turned I get a green, and a red on the otherside.

[mcouvillion]

Chip,

On the layout where I go to operate, the turnouts have bi-color LEDs in the center of the track for the straight and diverging routes. When the turnout is aligned for a direction, the LED for that direction is GREEN, and the other direction shows RED. Throw the turnout and the colors change when the switch is thrown completely. It may not be prototypical, but it sure is great for guys with failing eyesight to be able to check a route from a pretty good distance. Wire the LEDs in series with the power wire to the Tortoise. We get the bi-color LEDs with about 12" pigtails from DigiKey or Mouser.

Mark C.

[challenger3802]

I have twin coil turnout motors and they use two push button switches mounted on the control panel. If i'm not sure which way the turnout is thrown I can press the button for road I want, thus ensuring i get the trains going where I want them.

Ian

[cwclark]

I don't need lighting..all i do is wire a tortoise machine with a DP/DT switch that is mounted to my control panel diagram in such a way that the switch handle will be pointed in the direction that corresponds to the route the train will take...here is a picture of what i'm talking about...notice the position of the switch handle?..it corresponds with the route the train will take when it goes thru the turnout... http://community.webshots.com/photo/137793353/245347956tQYGGu

[ndbprr]

One of the neatest things I have seen recently is LEDs on the control panel. Wired between the points and stock rail it only lights if there is a current across it. Takes some wire but very effective and automatic.

[willy6]

Atlas sells a "snap relay". By using the snap relay you can wire it through your turnout and hook up a light to your control panel that will indicate how the turnout is aligned. the snap relay comes with directions and diagrams to fit your needs.

[SpaceMouse]

I would like a like to have a way knowing when a turnout has been thrown. I thought about putting a light to come on when the turnout diverts off the main, but short of adding a SPST switch next to every turnout switch, I don't know how to do it.