I came across benchwork that really appeals to me. It uses C-benchwork and is mounted on French cleats. Nice! Sets up a level for the layout and the top is for the valance. I think it has some real potential and wanted to share since it has been a while since it was first published. Here are two links:
http://smallmr.com/wordpress/modular-design-for-a-shelf-layout/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nscalerail/sets/72157634574668227/
Cool ! Have at it ! I checked out the links. Looks like a plan to me.
Keep us posted.
Mike.
My You Tube
That is nifty.
I could never do that. There are no walls in my house straight enough for a long french cleat like that.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Very neat! Thanks for showing it to us. I hope you can continue to post photos of your progress.
York1 John
seems like this approach using the angled cleat is better suited for temporary or removable applications.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
LastspikemikeThis type of cleat is suitable for permanent installation of cabinets like these.
a cabinet has sides to support the horizontal panels.
Here are links to two videos on constructing C-benchwork and installing. The first shows construction and the second shows the installation. It is a father/son video series so not professional but well done for a family video.
Now that I see the top section is just a valance, I think that could be optional.
Less material, less weight, although it does provide a place for lighting, but, there are others ways to do the lighting as well.
I posted that about a year ago. I was thinking about doing that for my layout. But the idea of making the C shapes, actually E shapes for a double deck design, just wasted too my plywood. I do have one section which will be a single deck branch line which I am still planning to use the C frame method.
Think of how much weight your kitch cabinets hold - just one shelf full of dishes weighs a ton more than any model railroad ever would. And then the shelf above that with glasses - a French cleat like that can support enormous weight. It's not at all a temporary thing. And that's even cabinets made with partical board parts - the ones in my kitched are all solid wood, not a track of particle board anywhere - it's going to be a bear to rip that out to redo the kitchen, but there's too much that needs to be changed to just refinish what's there (already did that once anyway). I have no doubt that I will be able to use the top of my branch line to display various 'railroady' items as a display shelf, in addition to holding the layout - it also will be relatively narrow, much like a kitchen cabinet. Probably 12" deep in most places. It's just a single track branch rambling through the countryside. Most of it isn;t going to be anywhere near the rest of the layout, except the connection point with the main line, so an operator running out there really will feel isolated from the mainline hustle and bustle. If I can pull off the scenery, or get good help with it, I suspect it may end up being my favorite part of the whole thing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks for replying Randy! Yesterday was my first look at this approach, apparently I missed your earlier posting.
I do agree that cutting C-brackets out of plywood sheets wastes plywood. However, I figure I can get 8-2'x2' sections from one sheet of plywood. This calculates into an average cost of $5 to 6$ per C-bracket and I have support for both the layout and the valence. If I use the common twin bracket shelving system, I'm looking at $11 for the support and $7 each for the two layout and valence metal brackets. So $25 for shelving versus $5 for the C-bracket + lumber for the French cleat, clear savings with C-bracket.
The C sections, espcially as mine would be about 16" inside height, don't waste all that much wood. Especially if you are careful about how you lay them out and nest them. The problem is when it becomes an E shape as would be needed for the double deck parts of my layout. It's hard to do more than just 2 facing each other, slightly offset (so one cut line divides the middle leg of one from the other, which means the same for the top and bottom legs), there are a pait of goofy siize rectangles wasted with each pair cut out.
That would work if I didn;t want to use the space across the top as display shelves. Strictly as layout space, the top just has to hold up some strings of LED light strips - practically no load at all. But to stack it up with artifacts, it needs a bit more strength. For the number of C frames I need, it won't be much waste at all, and since the branch is all single track with just a siding here or there, a lot of the 'waste' is still usable as subroadbed.
thanks for posting Derf! I do not have a table saw and thus cannot rip a 4x8 sheet into 3-inch wide strips. Our local big box stores and lumber yards will not rip plywood into such narrow strips. It would be more 25% more expensive to cut 1x3 select pine boards with my radial arm saw and use a dado head to cut the lap joint. I've kicked myself many times for buying a radial saw over a table saw... Grrr
EDIT, I have cut dados in the past by making several passes with a single blade. Was only cutting a few pieces, not practical for repetitive cuts. Apparently, dado's are not continued safe with a radial arm saw. Might give me a good reason to replace my saw for this and other projects! woohoo!
Did you follow the plan as written in the article or did you change the dimensions? If you changed, what were your dimensions for the C-bracket?
thanks!
That's what I do, a straight edge and clamps.
There are also commercial products, like Kreg.
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/cutting/circular-saw-cutting/
I have the Kreg Ripcut to saw my plywood into strips. To me it seems safer than a table saw, especially with heavy 3/4" plywood and working alone. Yes, a simple straight edge would work, but with the Kreg jig, if you need repeat strips the same width, you just cut, slide it over, and cut, no constant measuring once set. Great repeatability - it's like having the table saw fence in reverse.
Certainly a worthwhile idea, constructing the C shapes. Should be plenty strong enough, although the one piece method ought to be a bit stronger. connecting L's, that should be good, but you could fabricate them from 3 pieces as well.
Going to get one, our local HD has them in stock. $35.
Awesome information, thanks guys! You saved me a bunch of money! My local HD has the Kreg guide in stock and will pick one up! For those who have never used one (like me!) and are curious about using one, here is an excellent demonstration video for this simple tool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FkD0iFIwA Nice, and can't beat the price!
Excellent review and set up video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHMp-8pqW0w
I like how he sets the 2x4's on the level concrete and places the panel on top for cutting. Nice, easy approach if I were younger with healthy knees. How would do it with saw horses? Put one on each end and attach a clamp plus one or two in the middle? Or is there cutting stand? I will be getting knee replacements down the road but have been told that kneeling can be awkward after. I can justify spending money on a cutting table, could see a lot of uses for it, especially after the savings from not buying a table saw!
Found an easy DIY project: https://tombuildsstuff.blogspot.com/2017/03/plywood-cutting-table-plans.html
Thanks again, you guys are always so helpful!
That cutting table looks pretty cool. I just lay a couple of 8' studs on 2 saw horses to support the plywood.
Keep positioning the 2x4s so as your cutting, the 3" piece, falls free.
Looks like that cutting table will come apart for easy storage.
Remember to set the saw blade depth so your just cutting through the plywood.
He's not cutting into 2 4x4 pieces, he's ripping 3" wide strips, 8' long.
And you don't need 4 saw horses to support a sheet of plywood.
rrinkerI have the Kreg Ripcut to saw my plywood into strips. To me it seems safer than a table saw
I don't have one, but I have used this tool. It works great. If I had to cut thin strips of plywood, I would buy one.
IDRickHow would do it with saw horses?
I have used sawhorses. I have two KOBALT folding sawhorses that have slots for holding 2 by 4s. I lay the plywood on top of the 2 by 4s and they become sacrificial. I set the depthof the ciruclar saw about 1/2" deeper than the plywood thickness and cut into the 2 by 4s.
I will try to get a picture.
This set-up is safe and easy.
LastspikemikeIn reality cutting big panels on a table saw isn't safe nor is it accurate.
If you have a suitable table saw and a helper it is both safe and accurate.
Lastspikemike You hardly ever see radial arm saws any more.
That is because they are insanely unsafe, especially for cutting plywood.
I learned that the hard way, and others should learn from my experience.
This is from a piece of plywood exploding in a radial arm saw.
SeeYou190I will try to get a picture.
This is how I cut plywood into small pieces... straight cut.
These KOBALT sawhorses are great. The picture shows one collapsed and one ready for use. They take up very little space when collapsed, and are very sturdy when in use.
They have slots for 2 by 4s, so you can make a very sturdy work table for working with plywood.
The plywood goes on top of the 2 by 4s with the section to be cut off to the end to the outside of the sawhorse.
The piece of plywood in this picture has already been ripped to 36 inches width.
Always clamp the plywood down for safety. This just takes a second.
I set the depth of the circular saw to cut about 1/2" deeper than the plywood. The 2 by 4s will be cut a little, and I regard them as sacrificial. The cut piece of plywood will not fall, and it has been a very safe procedure.
I hope this helps.
LastspikemikeWell, I think you do.
Well OK! I'm so happy for you!
Very interesting discussion! Thank you all for your advice and pictures!
My past experience with power saws has been crosscutting (1x or 2x boards) on my radial arm saw (RAS) and ripping 3/4" plywood on a stationary table saw (STS) with an assistant. Unfortunately, the friend with the table saw moved... I recognize that a RAS is potentially dangerous but I have made hundreds of crosscuts and feel confident that I can do it safely. Kevin's experience with an "exploding" piece of plywood during a RAS cut is concerning to me. Is there a higher risk of this event with a RAS over a STS? shrug, don't know. Right now, I'm leaning toward buying 1x3 boards, cut to length, and then manually cut lap joints with multiple cuts on my RAS. I don't own a dado stack and don't think I can justify the c note plus expense with limited use. I have read that a negative hook angle is preferred when using a dado head on plywood, especially with a RAS. Choosing the right dado could significantly reduce the risk of accidents.
Of course, I will still need to cut plywood and hardboard sheets. My layout will have a 5/8" plywood deck and be covered by 1 inch extruded foamboard. The valance will be topped with either 1/4" inch plywood and the backdrop will be cut from 1/8" hardboard.
I'm leaning toward the Cobalt saw horses (thanks Kevin). For added safety, I would cut 4' lengths of 2x4, and cut dado's to fit these crosspieces in the 8' ft long 2x4's, ultimately ending up with a 4' x 8' grid to hold the plywood during cutting. It will look similar to the table in this picture only using the cobalt sawhorses, see: https://www.instructables.com/Simple-Plywood-Cutting-Table-Work-Table/ Maybe overkill but should be relatively safe for cutting plywood. It can be disassembled for storage.
Thank you all again for your discussion and advice!
You got this IDRick !
I had good results in the distant past by using the equivalent of picture rail as the mount for a French cleat-like structure -- since it works with the chair rail and crown moldings as part of the fundamental wall decoration, you could add or remove sections of cabinet, layout, etc. with minimal impact.
I also had a little fun including electrical track (e.g. for 'smart lighting' in the back side of the picture rail -- this would surely support a sensible system of taps and feeder drops as easily as a couple of heavier-gauge feeds.
(I also had fun incorporating a Tap-A-Line like pair of flexible conductors into part of the chair rail structure so you could run little appliances and -- at the time they were for NiCads, which probably dates this -- chargers without visible outlets on the walls. That was important for 'historical accuracy' in some of the older Hudson Valley houses while keeping them livable for modern families. At least theoretically a set of modules hung from the 'French cleat' rail could rest on or key into that chair rail at the bottom, and while I have not tested the Tap-A-Line structure with DCC, it is quite possible it might work within FCC interference standards...)
Derf
Thanks for posting pictures of your c-brackets and the layout! Nice work! Very handy to be able to take sections down to work on at the workbench! Any pictures of the finished layout? Would enjoy seeing your work!
Since this is evolving idea, I'm thinking I will change the dimensions of the bracket. I want to have a 24-inch tall backdrop. To achieve this, the center bracket piece will need to be 33-1/4 inches tall and the end pieces will be 20 inches long. The layout deck will be 4-1/8 inches tall and can be removed to add track, wiring, etc. at the workbench. Actual construction won't happen till this fall but will work on a mock-up version before then.
Overmod
Interesting options! Haven't really thought much about wiring yet but certainly is an important issue with all the electrical uses on a MR. Things get pretty unsightly without proper planning and placement!
Lastspikemike
My RAS just has the basic work table. For ripping, I would need to add at least a 6' matching height table on each end. Would potentially do if I had a workshop and many woodworking projects in mind but at this time I'm only planning a model railroad. The idea of a cutting table for the circular saw + Kreg ripping jig is getting high marks from the Mrs for safety and for repurposing as a work table (after adding a top) in the layout room.
Mike from WI
Appreciate you my friend! Have always found that one can trust the advice from a professional carpenter!
IDRickAppreciate you my friend! Have always found that one can trust the advice from a professional carpenter!
Well, thanks Rick, by trade, I'm a cement mason, but I've built form work for as many years as I have been a cement mason, it's part of the job, either directly, or working with the carpenters.
Retired in 2011, after 40 yrs. I've always done my own building and remodeling since. Our daughters house, a small place in northern WI., and countless remodel jobs around home.