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Securing Insulated Rail Joiners

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Securing Insulated Rail Joiners
Posted by DonF on Monday, November 23, 2020 1:01 PM

What are the pros and cons of adding a little adhesive (CA) to secure the insulated rail joiners?

I have used insulated rail joiners to isolate blocks and turnouts. I am using PECO code 55 flextrack, turnouts and insulated rail joiners.  As I continue to build the upper deck of the layout, some of the insulated rail joiners will be in difficult to service locations on the layout.

Would CA help to keep everything in place?

-Don

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Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, November 23, 2020 1:28 PM

Hello All,

Sounds like you are modeling in N scale.

I use the Atlas code 100 HO plastic insulated rail joiners. They fit the rail snugly because of the material they are made of.

When installing them if they stretch or become damaged I simply use another. 

I used them to isolate both rails on my programming track and all four rails on the wye with an Auto Reversing Unit.

Once properly installed I have had no problems with slippage like metal rail joiners.

I don't see and advantage of using an adhesive on the plastic rail joiners I've installed.

A disadvantage of using an adhesive would be if you need to replace the insulated track section. You would have to trash the insulated rail joiner and possibly, in the process, damage the rail(s).

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by BATMAN on Monday, November 23, 2020 1:56 PM

I have pulled all but one of my insulated joiners out. I now just cut the rail with the Dremel and put a bit of glue gun glue in the crack, file to match the rail and paint it and the insulator is invisible.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, November 23, 2020 2:23 PM

I have never glues an insulated rail joiner in place.

Like Brent, I have finally warmed up to the idea if cutting a gap and filling it in. That process took 30+ years.

-Kevin

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 23, 2020 5:06 PM

I don't see the difference between removing an insulated piece of track by applying a couple of drops of acetone or 'remover' to CA applied to an insulated joint vs. removing the panel from a non cemented one.  By definition, sliding these insulated joiners destroys them, and perhaps bending them up to pull the joint apart does, too.

The one caveat to the Dremel-and-filler method of gapping is that there be no stress on the joint area bending the rail-ends out -- as with unrelieved bending springback in forming flextrack curves, or extreme temperature expansion concerns.  Is there any insulating material of 'rail strength and stiffness' effective in such a gapped butt joint?  Is not additional reinforcement to the rail on either side advisable as indicated before the gap is made?

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Posted by NVSRR on Monday, November 23, 2020 5:31 PM

I put a cut in the rail and CA glue in a piece or .20 or .30 styrene.  Works for me.

You could remove a tie from each side of the gap location, insert PCB ties, solder,  and then cut the gap. 

 

Shane

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An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by DonF on Monday, November 23, 2020 5:48 PM

Thanks, Alyth.

 

You are correct--PECO joiners fit Code 55 and Code 80 and have the divider in the middle.

 

I'll secure both tracks securely to ensure there is no pressure on the joiner itself--a better long-term strategy

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 5:57 AM

I agree.  I don't find insulated rail joiners destroyed when used.  In some cases I've had to trim them so that may limit re-use.  Occasionally some can get mangled, but overall I've saved most of them for re-use.

I have never felt the need to secure them or glue them.  The track is usually held in place by spikes or track nails so everything stays put.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 7:34 AM

Lastspikemike

I find the main problem encountered with those plastic joiners is in curves. They aren't as rigid as metal joiners. 

I cannot even imagine plastic joiners on curves. An absolute invitation to kinks. 

Rich

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Posted by danno54 on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 7:51 AM

Overmod

I don't see the difference between removing an insulated piece of track by applying a couple of drops of acetone or 'remover' to CA applied to an insulated joint vs. removing the panel from a non cemented one.  By definition, sliding these insulated joiners destroys them, and perhaps bending them up to pull the joint apart does, too.

The one caveat to the Dremel-and-filler method of gapping is that there be no stress on the joint area bending the rail-ends out -- as with unrelieved bending springback in forming flextrack curves, or extreme temperature expansion concerns.  Is there any insulating material of 'rail strength and stiffness' effective in such a gapped butt joint?  Is not additional reinforcement to the rail on either side advisable as indicated before the gap is made?

 

I used a small bit of styrene plastic to fill the gap for that very reason. My concern was expansion of the rails might pinch the soft plastic of insulating rail joiners or hot glue possibly making contact. Easy enough to shape to the rail profile with the dremel and paint.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:15 AM

Maybe it all depends upon the brand of flextrack being used to make the curve. With Atlas flextrack, much as I like it, you cannot make a long curve without kinks when using metal rail joiners. So, with Atlas flextrack, you sure cannot make a long curve without kinks if you try to use plastic rail joiners.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:16 AM

Lastspikemike

Next we'll have posts stating that you should never put curves on drop in or lift up sections. Or joints in table tops. Or at ends of modules. 

Joints are fine, wherever you find them. Kinks are not.

Rich

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:29 AM

Overmod
 By definition, sliding these insulated joiners destroys them, and perhaps bending them up to pull the joint apart does, too.

I have never experienced this defined inevitable destruction.

I try to only use insulated rail joiners in between two pieces of sectional track, usually at the frog ends of turnouts.

No stress on the joint.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:57 AM

SeeYou190
 
Overmod
 By definition, sliding these insulated joiners destroys them, and perhaps bending them up to pull the joint apart does, too.

This was only in the context of 'removing a panel of track secured at one end with insulated plastic joiner'.
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 10:01 AM

richhotrain
 
Lastspikemike

I find the main problem encountered with those plastic joiners is in curves. They aren't as rigid as metal joiners.  

I cannot even imagine plastic joiners on curves. An absolute invitation to kinks.  

Rich

Of course you have to secure the track/rails apart from the plastic joiners.  I often use ME spikes for that - they do the job, or track nails.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 10:19 AM

Interesting

What my Brother and I did years ago in N scale was basically the same concept.

Where there were Kinks at track connections on curves, we would gently push the Kinks out of the rails with a small screwdriver and stick small sewing needles down through the cork into the buildrite sub roadbed to hold them.  Then we used some Goop on the added ties to hold it all permanently.  It worked good.  We never had a problem after that.

 

 

TF

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 10:26 AM

Track fiddler

Interesting

What my Brother and I did years ago in N scale was basically the same concept.

Where there were Kinks at track connections on curves, we would gently push the Kinks out of the rails with a small screwdriver and stick sewing needles down through the cork into the buildrite sub roadbed to hold them.  Then we used some Goop on the added ties to hold it all permanently.  It worked good.  We never had a problem after that. 

TF 

Oh, the humanity !!!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:50 PM

richhotrain

 

Oh, the humanity !!!

 

 

 

LaughLaughLaugh

 

 

WinkTF

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:51 PM

I tried insulating joiners once.  When I saw the results, I removed them and haven't gone back to them.  For me, far better to simply leave a gap.  I use PL-300 under five or six ties to get the rail ends firmly fixed, although that product takes several days to harden.  An alternative, not as strong, is DAP Alex Plus, but it dries within about four hours tops.

Also, I have resorted to using track nails, or even screws between ties, but abutted tightly to the rail foot.  If there's an adhesive below it all, the screws and spikes can be removed later.

Don't fear gaps.  Fear alignment instead.  Gaps will not close if you keep temperatures and humidity under control. I haven't had a single gap close on me ever, not on my handlaid turnouts with gaps hair-thin by using a jeweler's saw, or out on the mains and in yards just using ballast as my fixative.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 2:04 PM

Track fiddler
Where there were Kinks at track connections on curves, we would gently push the Kinks out of the rails with a small screwdriver and stick small sewing needles down through the cork into the buildrite sub roadbed to hold them.

Well I guess you couldn't get them to play this again afterwards...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SYtOPjPtVS0

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:13 PM

selector
I tried insulating joiners once.  When I saw the results, I removed them and haven't gone back to them.

The Atlas insulated rail joiners, that I could understand.  But I've used Peco insulated rail joiners this time as I am using Peco turnouts.  I had to use them as they are much finer and fit into the small space molded in the Peco turnouts I am using.  I have no complaints about them so far.  I don't see myself going the route you did and reject them.  No.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:37 PM

Yes, it was probably the Atlas variety.  It has been a while, but they stood out like sore thumbs when in place, and I didn't get a strong sense of security when they were mid-tight-curve.  I hope the Peco ones do a good job for you.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:44 PM

Yes, the Atlas insulated rail joiners, frankly are crap.  The Peco are more thin and contoured and finer. They are not metal of course, so aren't super strong.  I've been using them where track bifurcate at turnouts and not in the middle of come curve somehwere.

Most of the rail joiners in the photo's are insulated Peco rail joiners.

It really does change things to use "better" insulated joiners.  These really are MUCH better than the Atlas.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 9:48 PM

Reconfiguring

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 9:52 PM

Overmod

 

Well I guess you couldn't get them to play this again afterwards...

 

That was a good one Overmod.

I've heard that song before and I have always liked it.  But I haven't heard it for years.

That one fit right in hereLaugh

 

 

Stick out tongueTF

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:49 AM

riogrande5761
The Atlas insulated rail joiners, that I could understand.  But I've used Peco insulated rail joiners this time as I am using Peco turnouts

I believe the insulated rail joiners I am using are Micro-Engineering. They are thin and brown, and are easily hidden when the rail is painted.

I keep them in a plastic box, and I have hundreds, so the original manufacturer's packaging is long gone.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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