I'm getting back into the hobby and had a newbie question. I got some Atlas Flextrack (seems to be among the best?).
It does not have any nail holes in it to secure to roadbed. What are the best practices for securing it to cork roadbed? Drilling a hole into the ties myself and using a brad/nail? Gluing it to roadbed (with ?)? Other?
Thanks in advance!
There are pilot holes on the bottom of the ties, a simple track nail pushed from the bottom leaves the hole ready from the top.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
For two layouts now, I have just used caulk. Fast, easy, and cheap. No hammer required.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I use push pins to hold the track while the caulk dries.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
There have been a number of posts recently that cover this and other alternatives for 'track fixation' in detail. Now that the search-the-community feature works again you can find them; hopefully someone here with a better computer will post some links.
What I'd use is clear adhesive caulk -- acrylic, not silicone-based, and perhaps a 'cheaper' brand if you want to make reuse in the future less of an agony. (If you can't find clear, use dark colored and not white, as it will simplify subsequent ballast coverage...) Use it thin, but spread it so it 'beds' every bit of the contact area the full depth of any voids in the cork. Use good track gages (like Ribbonrail or the ones Peco recommends) to get the track aligned and then pushpins as mentioned to hold lining laterally - and weight the hell out of it to ensure good surface, net of any superelevation and transition spiraling or equivalent you use. Be sure to let the caulk cure COMPLETELY before taking off either the weight or the fixation pinning...
This is not 'my' advice but some best practices of modelers with decades of firsthand experience on whose shoulders I can momentarily perch while pecking keys.
I've never had to use a hammer for track nails, either...simply push them in using pliers - works on cork, wood, and plywood.
Wayne
So far I prefer track nails to hold flextrack down. No wait for caulk to cure, I can tweak it as I go, and if I need to adjust or relay, simply pull the nail out and relay. I like that flexibilty and "instant-down" method of track nails and ME spikes so much I don't see myself jumping on the caulk bandwagon.
doctorwayne I've never had to use a hammer for track nails, either...simply push them in using pliers - works on cork, wood, and plywood. Wayne
You must be a good deal stronger than me - and most others complain that the nails bend when they try to hammer them into plywood. I've had similar experience using plywood and/or OSB, and bend some nails but keep going and get the job done. Cork is soft so can push through that NP. My yard is all Homasote and I can push track nails in with a nail set just fine. That's my experience.
This has been going down past few weeks old school.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I still prefer track nails myself. Even after 25+ years of having my layout, I'm still tweaking some locations of trackwork. I just feel it would be a more miserable job to pull up track that has been glued down.
After I finish all my ballasting, I go back and pull out all the nails anyway, leaving the ballast itself to hold the track in place .... so, I guess you could say my track is ultimately "glued down".
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Hello All,
ChrisVAI got some Atlas Flextrack (seems to be among the best?). It does not have any nail holes in it to secure to roadbed.
How old is the track and what code; 100 or 83?
I have a new pack of HO code 100 Atlas super flex-track and each 36-inch section has 3 holes drilled (like 9-inch sectional) then four ties and then another set of holes.
There are 4 sets of these factory drilled holes per section.
If your particular track doesn't have the starter holes on the underside there are a few options that haven't been posted.
You can use a pin vise with a 1/16-inch drill bit to make your own holes.
You didn't mention what your sub-roadbed is; foam, plywood, MDF, etc.
Cork roadbed is definitely more substantial than foam.
If you choose mechanical fasteners through the holes; track nails, track spikes, or brads, I would recommend brads.
These are more readily available at hardware and big-box stores, usually cheaper than the "specialty" fasteners, and available in a number of lengths to suit your particular needs.
I use #19 x 5/8-inch wire brads to hold the track in place after securing the roadbed to the sub-roadbed with an adhesive.
Then I ballast the track and remove the brads. The ballast is sufficient to hold the track to the roadbed (I use Woodland Scenics foam- -add snarky comments here).
Another option would be to use an adhesive (I prefer silicone caulk) and 2-inch "T" pins to hold the track in place while the adhesive cures.
For this method, you don't necessarily need to drill holes in the ties.
You can simply use the "T" pins on the gage (inside) or field (outside) of the rails to hold the section in place while the adhesive dries.
Once the adhesive has dried you can remove the pins and move onto the next section.
Track spikes, used for hand-laying track, are available.
You can spike the track on the gage and field sides about every other 5- or 6th ties for straight or "slightly" curved sections.
For tighter curves, you might need spike every second or third tie.
You could also use an adhesive, along with the spikes for a "suspenders & belt" solution.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Hi Chris: You will get a lot of different answers. I will share what I do, but there are many ways to skin this cat.
I use mostly Atlas tracks components and Walthers/Shinohara turnouts.
The photos below illustrate my technique. They show a piece of sectional track, but the procedure for flex track is the same, there is just not a hole in the center of the tie to be filled in later.
I drill holes in the tie outside the rail, and spike the track in place there. When the nails and track are painted, it all looks fine. I do not like the nail head in the center of the tie.
For sectional track, I fill in the tie-center hole with green Kneadatite putty.
Then I paint all the ties.
I hope this helps.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Mark R. I still prefer track nails myself. Even after 25+ years of having my layout, I'm still tweaking some locations of trackwork. I just feel it would be a more miserable job to pull up track that has been glued down. After I finish all my ballasting, I go back and pull out all the nails anyway, leaving the ballast itself to hold the track in place .... so, I guess you could say my track is ultimately "glued down". Mark.
Pretty much after ballast has been glued and dried, taking up track tends to be a mess no matter method was used.
- Douglas
I did this on my new layout to avoid the appearance of the nails when using a train mounted mini-camera. With the nails in place outside the rails, the camera does not pick the nails up through the lens.
Once the glue mix has dried, it is fairly easy to remove the nails if you so desire.
Rich
Alton Junction
In 2012 I laid my Atlas flex (code 83) secured by a thin spread of Alex Plus clear caulk, on typical cork roadbed. I placed books on a section as it was laid, then continued with the next piece, being sure not to disturb the piece just laid.
I used temporary push pins against the ties at any area that might want to stray before cured, as on curves or where a straight piece needed a bit of help to be perfect.
Be sure you research how to make flex joints on curves, without kinks. If you are soldering the rail joiners (on curves) this is basically done by soldering the prior and next piece rail joiners with the track at the joint held straight. (Remove some ties to provide the room needed; replace them later.) When cooled, the pieces can be curved and the end of the prior piece, the joint and the new piece will be a smooth curve, ready to be secured.
I left the books on overnight. It worked well for me.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Doughless Mark R. I still prefer track nails myself. Even after 25+ years of having my layout, I'm still tweaking some locations of trackwork. I just feel it would be a more miserable job to pull up track that has been glued down. After I finish all my ballasting, I go back and pull out all the nails anyway, leaving the ballast itself to hold the track in place .... so, I guess you could say my track is ultimately "glued down". Mark. Pretty much after ballast has been glued and dried, taking up track tends to be a mess no matter method was used.
Mark R.
Of course, but my rebuttal to that is I still prefer Marks method of getting the track down in the first place. There are no "Pro tip:" cans to obscure the track preventing me from siting down the rails and check for geometry or smoothness while that caulk cures.
By the time I'm ready to ballast, I've settled on the track being laid how I want it. It's the track laying phase and being sure it's how I want it phase, that I much prefer not to use adhesives. Tweaking is not so easy with cured adhesives.
I did this on my new layout to avoid the appearance of the nails when using a train mounted mini-camera. With the nails in place outside the rails, the camera does not pick the nails up through the lens. Once the glue mix has dried, it is fairly easy to remove the nails if you so desire. Rich
That last sentence is the key. If you don't like the appearance of track nails in the center of ties, after the ballast is secured, you can pull the nails and use a bit of putty to patch the holes. Paint the track as most do, and no trace of it will be visible.
peahrens In 2012 I laid my Atlas flex (code 83) secured by a thin spread of Alex Plus clear caulk, on typical cork roadbed. I placed books on a section as it was laid, then continued with the next piece, being sure not to disturb the piece just laid. I used temporary push pins against the ties at any area that might want to stray before cured, as on curves or where a straight piece needed a bit of help to be perfect. Be sure you research how to make flex joints on curves, without kinks. If you are soldering the rail joiners (on curves) this is basically done by soldering the prior and next piece rail joiners with the track at the joint held straight. (Remove some ties to provide the room needed; replace them later.) When cooled, the pieces can be curved and the end of the prior piece, the joint and the new piece will be a smooth curve, ready to be secured. I left the books on overnight. It worked well for me.
riogrande5761 Doughless Mark R. I still prefer track nails myself. Even after 25+ years of having my layout, I'm still tweaking some locations of trackwork. I just feel it would be a more miserable job to pull up track that has been glued down. After I finish all my ballasting, I go back and pull out all the nails anyway, leaving the ballast itself to hold the track in place .... so, I guess you could say my track is ultimately "glued down". Mark. Pretty much after ballast has been glued and dried, taking up track tends to be a mess no matter method was used. Of course, but my rebuttal to that is I still prefer Marks method of getting the track down in the first place. There are no "Pro tip:" cans to obscure the track preventing me from siting down the rails and check for geometry or smoothness while that caulk cures. By the time I'm ready to ballast, I've settled on the track being laid how I want it. It's the track laying phase and being sure it's how I want it phase, that I much prefer not to use adhesives. Tweaking is not so easy with cured adhesives. I did this on my new layout to avoid the appearance of the nails when using a train mounted mini-camera. With the nails in place outside the rails, the camera does not pick the nails up through the lens. Once the glue mix has dried, it is fairly easy to remove the nails if you so desire. Rich That last sentence is the key. If you don't like the appearance of track nails in the center of ties, after the ballast is secured, you can pull the nails and use a bit of putty to patch the holes. Paint the track as most do, and no trace of it will be visible.
I use track nails and predrill the hole through the tie/roadbed/plywood. I use a big enough drill bit so the nails are a snug fit requiring only gentle tapping with hobby hammer and nailset. I tap the nails down close to but not tight to the tie in the middle.
My experience has been that I don't really see the nails. In fact I have had trouble finding them when I need to adjust/redo the track. But at 73 my eyesight isn't what it used to be.
Years ago MR had an article about using Mycor 300, a US Gypsum product, in place of plywood or other roadbed. It is apparently stable through any humidity changes; very easily accepts spikes or nails, but holds them firmly; has a very smooth surface; and is quieter. Only problem was cost.
LastspikemikePlasterboard reinforced with "inorganic" fibre. Also described as "mineral fiber"
I am building my second n scale layout. Have layed the track and am ballasting now. I used caulk to fasten the track down on my first layout and I did not like that. It was messy, difficult to get the track positioned, took a long time to dry, did not always stay in place and hard to get the track up if a repair needed to be made. So on my second (current) layout I decided to temporarily nail the track down using a tiny drill and small nails. This allowed me to make sure the track work was where I wanted it and was working. After ballasting I am pulling the nails out and painting overthe holes. The ballast and white glue hold the track in place nicely. Don't waste your money on caulk.
darrel480 I am building my second n scale layout. Have layed the track and am ballasting now. I used caulk to fasten the track down on my first layout and I did not like that. It was messy, difficult to get the track positioned, took a long time to dry, did not always stay in place and hard to get the track up if a repair needed to be made. So on my second (current) layout I decided to temporarily nail the track down using a tiny drill and small nails. This allowed me to make sure the track work was where I wanted it and was working. After ballasting I am pulling the nails out and painting overthe holes. The ballast and white glue hold the track in place nicely. Don't waste your money on caulk.
I'm in agreement with your comments. It seems some have the right skills to make caulk work, but the nail/spike method has worked so well for me, I prefer not to go throught the learning curve like you did and end up back with something that always worked well.
I am also a spike/nail then glue ballast guy.
I have never used caulk on a layout. Caulk on a wire armature can make for very nice tree bark.
I think the reason anyone finds caulk "messy" is that they cut open the tube like they are caulking a bathtub - ie, one of the rings marked on most tubes of caulk as to where to open it up. Not one video I've seen illustrating the use of caulk for track and/or roadbed has showed this, but the very first time I tried using caulk after a lifetime of building layouts with track nails, it was pretty obvious to me that allowing that much caulk to come out would most definitely make a mess.
I used my rail nippers to nip off the tip just far enough so that there is a hole visible. Smaller than a #18 wire. To puncture the inner foil, since the opening is goign to be too small to use a large nail or a screwdriver, a piece of solid wire works.
Now the caulk comes out in just a VERY thin line. Not so much that when you smooth it out with a putty knife (or the edge of those fake credit cards they send with credit card offers), there's not so much that it builds up and oozes out around the tool, getting on everything.
ANd that SUPER thin layer, really just a shiny spot on the plywood, foam, or roadbed, is PLENTY to stick the track down. No muss, no fuss. ANd until you add ballast, it is easily lifted off without damage (foam roadbed on extruded foam tabletops, not so much - even a thin bead of caulk sticks those two together VERY well - so don't expect to reuse that piece of foam roadbed - but it will come off). Track pieces can easily be reused, if applicable (if part of what is changing involves removing a 3" piece of flex - do yourself a favor and don't try reusing that tiny bit. But if you remove a greater portion of a whole stick - go ahead and reuse. Also turnouts, they are too expensive NOT to reuse if you make a change in the track plan)
rrinkerI used my rail nippers to nip off the tip just far enough so that there is a hole visible. Smaller than a #18 wire. To puncture the inner foil, since the opening is goign to be too small to use a large nail or a screwdriver, a piece of solid wire works. Now the caulk comes out in just a VERY thin line.
Yes, that too - it is important to relieve the pressure after laying a bead, or indeed a whole lot of excess will continue to squirt out in a thing little line.
When done for the session, I also pull the plunger back a bit instead of just allowing it to pop back automatically. And of course cap the end.
rrinker- it is important to relieve the pressure after laying a bead, or indeed a whole lot of excess will continue to squirt out in a thing little line.
I use dripless caulk gun, for everything I caulk, windows, siding, doors, and putting down track. They work great.
When I'm done, I do relieve any pressure from the plunger, and seal the end with a piece of duct tape.
Painters tape works too.
Mike.
My You Tube
Ths picture below illustrates how thin the layer of caulk should be. While the caulk sets up, I either use weights or pushpins to hold the track in place. The gaps cut into the rail are for wiring the layout in blocks. I bridge the gaps with styrene glued into place with CA, then the styrene is trimmed with a new #11 Xacto knife blade.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Great pic. That's exactly how to do it. And it will NOT come up or move on its own after the caulk sets up. But slide a putty knife in there and you can remove the track without damage if needed.
A concern with 'wiping out' to very thin involves whether it is better to use a flexible blade, like a thin silicone bowl-scraping spatula, to make sure the caulk layer is thin and even, or a stiffer blade (including the previously-mentioned old credit card) to tool the top of the caulk smooth and level to match the crossties in the flex-track strip. You'd get more feet of track per 'tube' out of the former; much better lateral and likely vertical retainment with the latter. Which 'style' do the experts here prefer? (Note that this is a difference between 'extremely thin' and 'very thin' for most roadbed: even the thickest layer would only reach full coverage of the tie 'footprint' when the track is weighted to hold level for the caulk setup time...)
I usually use a putty knife. The 'credit card' I was mentioning would be more int he category of a soft tool - not a real credit card, rather those fake ones that come in many of those throw-away offers, which are little more than a thinly laminated piece of paper, not hard plastic like a real credit card.
As for wastage - my old layout,t he 8x12 donut one, all the track and all the roadbed, except the yard, was done with one tube of caulk. I had to open a second one to start the yard. At that time, I think a tube of the Polyseamseal brand I used was $1.99. I doubt I wasted much, but even if I did, if I somehow wasted 25% I would have only been out 50 cents. Not even a consideration. I DID waste more on the last layout, because I worked a lot slower, and had to clean out the nozzle a lot. I think I used 2 whoel tubes ont hat one, partly because I found that cork roadbed needed more caulk to stick to the foam than the WS foam did on the one before that. I also indescriminately used the same caulk to fill low spots and glue other foam bits together, so it's hard to say just what went to the track and roadbed, and what went to general construction. At any rate, it's cheap enough that excess left over after spreading a section with a putty knife was something I just scraped off the knife on the edge of a scrap piece of wood and didn't concern myself with. If I was using something that cost more like $5 for ever 10 feet of track I put down, I'd be more carefuil of the waste rate.