Has anyone ever had a layout drop down from the ceiling? I still havent gotten around to building anything, as it's been my boat season, (haven't taken any on the water, but have been trying to get them there)
Anyways, I really domt have room for a nice sized layout, and was thinking I could have a 4x8 drop down from the ceiling in my garage. Some kind of cable lift system (motorized if I have to) to lift it up so I can park in there or work on my boats, and them lower it for running trains.
I suppose I should go bigger, but im not sure if a 4x8 would turn out to work well. I'd probably just go with a 5x9 if I went bigger. I'm not looking for much on a layout and not going super detailed or anything. Pretty much the bare wood painted green, cork roadbed and the tracks. Maybe a few trees and buildings. Definitely a loop and a few switching off points to have some operations. Just something to run trains around. Not going super complex or heavy on what it is, it'll be very generic and plain, just to keep cost down.
Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had done the drop down part before. I'm not going to go into the ceiling, but have it raised up when I need it, or need to work onnthe underside of it.
How that idea is awesome!
There are plenty of interesting layouts on a 4x8.
Great Idea. I have thought of this before and did the planning at the drawing board. It wouldn't be very hard to do at all.
Four cables to each corner of the layout in adjustable tension clamps. Four vertical pulleys on the ceiling rafters directly above each corner of the layout. Four horizontal pulleys inline maybe two feet or so from the vertical pulleys. And then band the four pulleys into one with another tension clamp. Then one more pulley in the crevice of the ceiling and the wall so the cable drops down to either a reversible ratchet similar to one that winds up a boat on a trailer or fed to a forward and reverse electric motor. The boat ratchet would be super easy though when you think about how much heavier a boat is than a layout.
Then I would put two clamps on the wall at the two corners of the layout equivalent to the kind on a tool box only a little bigger to hold the layout stable. Unless you're going to put it in the middle of the garage so you can have reach on both sides of the layout. I guess it wouldn't hurt anything if it's swings a little. You will have the only flying trapeze layout. You could come up with some kind of horses with four wedge stabilizers so it doesn't swing.
TF
My father in law did this with a 4x8 reinforced at the edges. He used a couple of those bicycle lift kits tied together so they all went up and down at the same speed, roughly at the quarter points of the short ends. I believe he had folding legs with screw height adjusters that it could sit on when down.
If I were going to try this I'd use counterweighting, either like a dumbwaiter or using garage door springs, so that only a little power would pull the layout down, and if its locking 'slipped' it would be neutral or even rise slightly rather than tip or fall. I would be tempted to anchor the four cables inboard at the intersection of lateral and longitudinal quarter points rather than all the way at the corners ... or, calculating the weight distribution of the "finished" layout, at the spacing that best equalized the bending stresses in the plywood outward from the cables. I think this would also facilitate operating the layout as the whole of the perimeter would be open.
I’ve done both a dropdown and fold-up 4’ x 8’. The dropdown was in a two car garage and used a wall mounted hand crank winch (⅛” wire rope) that worked very well.The fold-up 4’ x 8’ also worked out very nice. I mounted it in my boys bedroom and took up ten inches when folded up against the wall. Of the two I prefer the fold-up. When I built it the boys were very young, 3 & 5 (1967). The 5 yr old could unfold it for use, don’t think they could have managed dad’s dropdown in 1975.I actually made the fold-out dual purpose having a second 4’ x 8’ section for an HO scale car track, popular in the late 60s. The car track was floating and could be left in the wall enclosure. It had a pair of latches that when snapped to the HO train board would come out on top of the train board, they could pick and choose trains or cars.The dropdown and fold-up served us well until our move in 1984.Both were before digital cameras so no pictures. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I have a 5 foot by 8 foot wargaming table that drops down onto sawhorses in my garage.
I have no fancy cable system. It is built out of 2 inch foam and on an alluminum frame. Two of us can take it down and stow it with no problem.
This idea is workable. I would go 5 by 10 instead of 4 by 8 for an island layout and just stretch a good 4 by 8 track plan to fill the space. That gives you 18 extra square feet of fun and still easily fits in a garage.
Foam insulation board will be your friend here.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
There was a small piece in MR from the early 60's showing a diagram for this. Key points were that the four wire cables ran through fairly large pulleys (6-8" (?) diameter) to a common counter weight. This ensured the layout table remained level during raising and lowering. The layout was slightly heavier than the counter weight. Several hook & eye latches between table and ceiling prevented accidental lowering.
Jim
I did this years ago with a 6' by 6' layout in my son's bedroom. I used a 120 volt winch mounted low on one wall to raise and lower the layout. The winch cable was connected to the bottom center of a long piece of aluminum bar stock used as a spreader bar. A pair of cables was connected to the top of each end of the spreader bar. A double pulley was used at the ceiling above each end of the spreader bar to make the 90 degree angle out across the ceiling. Single pulleys were mounted to the ceiling above each corner of the layout. Friction mount cones were used to attach the cables to the layout. I first ran the two cables on each end of the spreader bar to the two corners on the same side of the layout. However, the layout had a tendency to shift to one side or the other and would not stay level. This problem dissappeared once I ran the cables to opposite corners (the two long cables forming an "X" under the ceiling). I designed the benchwork to include pockets into which 2" X 2" legs could be inserted. Folding sawhorses could be used as well. Don't rely on the cables to hold the layout when lowered as the layout will continue to swing around. The powered winch made it very easy to raise and lower the layout smoothly. I would not raise or lower a layout by hand as a sudden jerk or slip could bounce things off the layout. The biggest advantage to a suspended layout over a "folding" or "portable" layout is the fact that you can leave everything on the layout during storage. I live in Southern California and our suspended layout experienced several moderate earthquakes, yet nothing ever fell off while the layout was raised in the storage position.
Unfortunately, even this small layout proved too large for the bedroom it was in as there was extremely limited or no space between the layout perimeter and the bedroom furniture. The layout had a central operator's opening (also meant to clear the ceiling fan/light fixture in the center of the ceiling) so you could operate the layout fairly easily, but any work needing to be done around the outside perimeter of the layout was a real pain. The central operator's opening also meant that the operators had to be in position prior to lowering the layout around you. Because of these space restrictions, we found ourselves using the layout less and less so I eventually took it down. I gave the layout to a family just getting started in trains so it did not go to waste.
If you go the suspended layout route, make sure that you still have plenty of working/operating room around the perimeter of the layout without having to move a bunch of crap prior to lowering, or put back after raising, the layout. If you have to perform all kinds of chores prior to and after using the layout, I suspect you will get tired of the process, too!
Hornblower
If you put together a table with 1" x 4"s using lap joints glued and screwed and it won't twist and with a 2" extruded foam top it will be light weight.
One block and tackle pully will set you back about $25.00 and you can run rope, chain or cable to the corners from that.
I had a friend that had a 6' x 20' table like this in his garage and had ten cables runnin to a central block and tackle. He used carabiners to hook and unhook and it worked like a charm.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
My 4x6 is on exactly such a system in my garage. I am using a lifting storage system installed by an outfit local to me in the Sacramento, CA area. Their literature even shows a layout using their system. It has a hand crank for manual operation, as well as a rod I can chuck into my drill for motorized operation.
https://advancedoverheadstorage.com/
While my layout is 4x6, the actual lifting platform is 4x4. By hanging weights on the ends of the cables to keep them taught, I can set the layout down on a table, disengage the cables, and move the layout for better access to certain areas (one end is very close to some storage cabinets), or to the outside for toxic building events (such as painting the track).
There have been several articles in MR over the years with layouts the raise and lower. John Armstrong even did a plan for one, significantly larger than a 4x8, with details of how the framing might be done.
The key is having the individual cables going to a strip of steel to act as an equalizer which is then connected to the lifting device, either a powered or a hand cranked winch.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Wouldn't it be easier to hinge the layout to the back wall of the garage like a Murphy bed?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainWouldn't it be easier to hinge the layout to the back wall of the garage like a Murphy bed?
I tried to build the first N scale STRATTON AND GILLETTE like this.
It caused all kinds of problems, most tragically when equipment was left on the rails when it was lifted. Anything that came loose would be broken.
I am sure it is do-able, but my experience did not work out well. After about three months it just stayed down all of the time.
richhotrain Wouldn't it be easier to hinge the layout to the back wall of the garage like a Murphy bed? Rich
That severely limits the size of the layout. There's such a layout in John Armstrong's Creative Layout Design book. Say you have an 8 foot ceiling. You want the layout height at 36" - that means the layout has to be less than 5 feet in that dimension or it can;t fold up against the wall. I suppose you could make it long, if the length of the wall is say 14 feet, you can probably make the layout 10 feet long, and get a nearly 5x10 out of it. Something that long is going to be really difficult to fold up, not to mention if you want it at a more workable height for an average adult, more like 48" off the ground, you lose even more width.
And there is no access along one full side, so even if it is only 4' wide, you won;t be able to reach the track that goes along the back where it folds up. A drop down from the ceiling type of thing allows access to all 4 sides.
Spoilsport!
Instead of coming up with reasons why it won't work, why not think positively about how it might work? It certainly would be a lot easier to construct and mechanically operate.
A friend in Tampa has a Wargaming/Boardgaming Table, 4 foot by 8 foot, that drops onto a pool table in his recreation room. The wargaming table has the lighting for the pool table (LEDs) built into the bottom of it.
There is a 12 inch high trim board around the game table that is decorated with beer logos. When it is in the up position it looks like a fancy canopy for the pool table and you cannot tell its real purpose.
The ceilings in the room are very high, at least twelve feet, so it all works very well. He has a winch system from an off-road vehicle built into the ceiling. The cables are on the corners and do not disconnect. They do not really get in the way.
richhotrain Spoilsport! Instead of coming up with reasons why it won't work, why not think positively about how it might work? It certainly would be a lot easier to construct and mechanically operate. Rich
Apart from attaching pulleys into the ceiling trusses to lift up a layout, I don't see the Murphy bed style THAT much easier to build. It still needs a fairly stiff frame, since it will be supported by the hinge on one edge and legs or a sawhorse or whatever at the far end. Build the lifting mechanism smooth enough, and you wouldn;t even have to take the structures and rolling stock off the layout. A fold up one - you'd at least have to remove the locos and rolling stock, anything not fastened down, and also any tall structures.
Creative Layout Design is a great book to have, it has a lot of interesting and atypical concepts for locationg model railroads. The section on the Murphy bed type (which John in his way called the Murphy Bed & Credenza Railroad - he proposed a small credenza alongside the layout as a place to park the trains when the layout folded up) pretty much covers all the pros and cons of that sort of design. It's hard to find, I got a copy at a train show, unfortunately the previous owner tore out all the pages related to one concept - the one on building a layout in a single wide mobile home. I guess I know what sort of layout they built.
There was some guy many years ago who filled a three car garage with a layout which lowered from the ceiling. It could be stopped anywhere in the travel range for the most convient work height for any task at hand.
I think a photo of it was in an early release of Track Planning for Realistic Operation, but it might have been in Armstrong's other track planning book (or somewhere else entirely).
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
rrinkerCreative Layout Design is a great book to have, <SNIP> It's hard to find, I got a copy at a train show,
There is one on eBay right now for $13.00, and another one for $112.00!
I guess the market is not quite sure what it is worth.
I have the book also. Even if you do not use a single idea from the book, it is still a very enjoyable book to read through. Lots of great stuff.
Rich, That would work but,every structure, every vehicle would need to be glued down or removed.. Every figure glued in place.
My question is while it could be done why go through the hassle of placing then removing locomotive and cars?
Another thought if one is using car cards/waybills those would need replace in their holders and every car respotted at the correct industry.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE richhotrain Spoilsport! Instead of coming up with reasons why it won't work, why not think positively about how it might work? It certainly would be a lot easier to construct and mechanically operate. Rich Rich, That would work but,every structure, every vehicle would need to be glued down or removed.. Every figure glued in place. My question is while it could be done why go through the hassle of placing then removing locomotive and cars? Another thought if one is using car cards/waybills those would need replace in their holders and every car respotted at the correct industry.
Wdodge0912 I'm not looking for much on a layout and not going super detailed or anything. Pretty much the bare wood painted green, cork roadbed and the tracks. Maybe a few trees and buildings. Definitely a loop and a few switching off points to have some operations. Just something to run trains around. Not going super complex or heavy on what it is, it'll be very generic and plain, just to keep cost down.
I'm not looking for much on a layout and not going super detailed or anything. Pretty much the bare wood painted green, cork roadbed and the tracks. Maybe a few trees and buildings. Definitely a loop and a few switching off points to have some operations. Just something to run trains around. Not going super complex or heavy on what it is, it'll be very generic and plain, just to keep cost down.
richhotrainI would never build a layout in a garage and I would never attempt to build a layout that is raised to, and lowered from, the ceiling.
Nor would I. If I was going to build a simple loop layout I would probably go with one I could take up and down. I would use 2 sawhorses to hold the layout.
The majority of my ISLs used 8' folding table as bench work. By pushing the layout back I had another work bench which I used for building structure kits.
the reason for building it like this, hanging it and raising and lowering, is I don't have the storage space for it otherwise. I've been trying to get the table over here but have no where to put it. And as soon as I find some room, the wife takes it before I can. But the garage is my domain, so I can put it out there. The table will be pretty basic, yes, but I don't have anywhere really to put all the stuff, and I really don't want to tear it down every time I have to put it away. Since i'm on my own as well for that (set up/take down), I figured work smarter, not harder, and just have it drop down from the ceiling. Then I don't have to deal with anything other than lowering and raising it. I may eventually put some more scenery on it and do it up fully, but as for now the goal is to have a working train table that I don't have to really mess with to use, and can get it out of the way when needed easily
I don't have any problem seeing what you're doing here. Garage man cave, yours! I get it.
To get your layout to lift up and out of the way when you're not using is pretty easy. I do remember I had two bicyclist lifts with two hooks for each bicycle. Worked like a champion. A layout is just twice that in the pulley system joined together. I wouldn't anticipate you'll have any problems whatsoever. Easy as pie
P.S. Maybe you have already mentioned it but what part of the country do you live in. Possibly one of the considerations you would have is climate change, cold and dry to hot and humid. The expansion & contraction factor and what time of the year is best to lay your track. Unless your garage is climate controlled of course.
Is the ceiling in your garage flat with no obstacles where you are going to pull the layout up to?
How high is the garage ceiling? New houses here in Florida have 10 or 12 foot ceilings in the garages for some reason.
I will try to put together a sketch of what my friend did with the above-the-pool-table set-up. It works VERY well.
eventually the garage will get a window AC, already has heat plumbed from the furnace to it, as at one point it was a 4 seasons room or something like that. it was pretty much a finished room at one point, and the french doors were replaced with a garage door, and the flooring tore up back to concete. We eventually will put a full central AC in with the heater, but with having 3 AC's right now, I won't let the 2 good ones go to waste. I'll make it an ice box out there, lol.
I still have to masure, but I might have to put the length of the table over the width of the garage instead of length, just because of the garage door, but otherwise yes, it's completely open on the cealing, save for one light socket. It's goingto have to be moved anyways, as I want to also put up a garage door opener and i don't have a plug for one that isn't also on the light switch. But that will come with the central air, as I will have to have the breaker box in the basement upgraded to a 150 or 200 amp service from the 100 it is now, and I'll have the garage wired on it's own circut.