Runaround track ?????????????

[ndbprr]

Two points are being missed here. The first is if you want to talk about a major industry like a western coal mine of recent vintage that loads out hundreds of cars a day yes you are talkingabout balloon tracks, flood (continouous) loading and a massive storage silo that can be refilled between trains. BUT - you aren't going to find that in appalachia or anywhere east of the Mississippi. In eastern coal country there is barely enough flat ground to lay a track. Most of those mines have mutiple yard tracks above the mine and use gravity to bring a cut down to the mine for loading and then to a lower yard for pick up and yes a train might be backed in there for several miles to get to the receiving yard. Point two is that the end receiver is not going to be set up for continuous unloading of any product. Coal has to be thawed before it can be unloaded because they usually spray it with water before weighing (They say to control dust but that way you get charged water weight also). In the north in the winter they are frozen solid so they need to go to a thawing house first usually one - three cars long and sit for awhile unless you have a rotary dumper which can only handle one or two cars also. I've seen forty car+ coal trains backed into steel mills many times at about 1/2 mph. Very frustrating as they tie up the entire mill. Other industries have limits also. The Chrysler Belvidere Illinois plant has 10-12 loading tracks that handle ten cars each. Why not 5tracks that handle 20 cars? Ten cars must be the maximum distance that allows maximum productivity loading autos so don't overlook that a company receiving is restricted in the amount of cars they can unload in a shift and anything over that is a waste of capital and unnecessary. A grain elevator might be able to handle 20 cars a day. I don't know or a plastic plant may have a sotrage siding that can hold 20 cars but only had unloading stations for 3 at a time so they would bring 3 cars at a time to the unloading stations. They do that with a wich and a cable or a small truck on wheels. If it takes 2 hours per car they would change cars a maximum of four time per shift or 12 cars per shift leaving them eight cars for tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

We are going to model a coal power plant receiving unit trains being unloaded by a rotary coal dumper (I spent 4 days building that from scratch based on pictures and plans iI found on the web).

I plan to have the hauling line (BNSF) bring them in and drop them at a siding, then our railroad will either grab them or hop on their power and bring them into the dumper track, since i don't have room for even 40+ cars they will be brought in as cuts of 10-15 and the extras will be placed on a parallel track from switching out.

I think this is how the power plant in our area did it before they did a balloon track.

I think you will find that if you are doing it a certian way, there will be a prototype railroad that is doing the same thing. Real Estate isn't cheap for the real guys, let alone us model railroaders :)

[rrinker]

The Loads in/Empties Out scheme isn't exactly realistic, but it's a great concession to modelling where we NEVER have all the space we want, and it turns an unrealistic condition into something much closer to the real thing. You can see how that gets laid out in John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" or "Creative Layout Design". Both books HIGHLY recommended reading while planning your layout.
As for prototype photos of a runaround track, that's going to be hard. From the typicla distance prototype photos are taken, it's just going to look like a switch and a siding. If the phototgrapher labels it as a runaround track, you're just going to have to take their word for it. A better choice would be to look at a prototype track plan, like the publish in Trains. Or Andy S's article in MR a couple of months ago about yard design. You'll see runaround tracks there.
Or take a look at my track plan on my web site - the Phase I 'Getting Started' portion. You could classifiy the track at the bottom center as a runaround. Trains on that outer loop run counter-clockwise, yet there are those two sidings on the lower right. How do you ge cars in there? You uncouple the locomotive and run around the train, and then pu***he required cars into the siding. Then you run around the train again and couple the loco back on the head end and off you go. In your case, that tail does not need to be a train length - the only thing running around to the opposite end is the locomotive, so there just has to be space for the locomotive to pull away from the train. The cars, with a few exceptions, are bi-directional [:D].

--Randy

[Anonymous]

thanks again,
its becoming more clear that my initial thoughts on this were on the mark I just wanted to do it with realism. Any place to find real life pics of this kind of operation?????????

[Jetrock]

Although now that I think about it, for a bigger coal facility (like the kind that recieve 80-car trains) there might be a full-fledged receiving yard, with a dedicated switcher to move full cars and jockey empties back to the yard to be picked up by arriving engines and deadheaded back to the mine.

[Jetrock]

If there are 80 cars of coal, then (assuming your cars are 40 feet long) you'd need 3200 feet of siding. That's not much more than half a mile--not exactly tiny, but if you know you're going to need that much room you can plan for it. Considering that there are plenty of trains 80 cars long, one assumes that 80-car capacity (or better) sidings aren't exactly scarce.

Another thing you can do is feed them in a bit at a time: if you have (again, assuming 40 foot cars) 400 feet and 30 cars (1200 feet), you bring them in 10 cars at a time to unload.

So, no, you don't have to have enough room for all those cars--but it helps.

What some modelers do when modeling coal loads: Their coal trains will go into a giant coal facility, and under a mountain--on the other side of the mountain, they come out the opening of a coal mine! At the same time, a train full of empties enters the mine, and becomes a train full of empties leaving the coal facility...

[Anonymous]

Oh and by the way,

In reference to still being confused. How would the train unload its coal if the through- the-facility- track is not as long as the train itself. (I really need a map)

Sorry,
Mark

[Anonymous]

Thanks,
I guess what I'm still confused on is:
----<==========>------------(to main line)
wouldn't the runaround track have to be as long as the unit train? What if the train is hauling 80 cars of coal. It pulls directly through the unloading facility, empties its cars. The engine switches to the runaround and goes to the other end. Is the prototypical runaround in this case at least 80 cars long? Seems expensive or is there something I am missing, like staging?

Still confused,
Mark

[rrinker]

It's just like it sounds. I'll try to draw it:

----<==========>------------(to main line)

Two switches (or turnouts as model railroaders like to call them), to make a double ended siding parallel to the other. The little tail at the end leaves enough room for the loco to pull away from the train, the switch is thrown, and the loco backs around to the other end of the train.
Diesels can run equally well in either direction, although it's not as convenient to run backwards. Some have dual controls on either side of the cab. Also this is in part why when you see multipe locomotives coupled together, the end-most units face the opposite way. After running around the train, the crew can board the unit at the opposite end that is now facing forward.

--Randy

[wp8thsub]

Many such industries (especially those receiving coal in unit train shipments), have a balloon track which allows the train to pull through the unloading facility, reverse direction, and head back whence it came. A similar arrangement is often used at mines so the train can stay in one piece while it loads. Think model RR reverse loop in 1:1 scale.

In other cases a runaround track is used. Basically it's just two tracks side by side, connected by turnouts at each end; leave the cars on one track, back around them on the other after uncoupling and running past the turnout, then couple back to the other end. Where no space exists for a balloon track, the prototype does the same thing. Remember, nothing in the train actually has to turn around, just get the power (and caboose if used) to swap ends and then reverse direction.

[Anonymous]

I am going from running my trains "round and round" to attempting to add a little more realism to the use of the trains. When "real" unit train brings a load of say, "coal" to a customer, ie a 'coal fired power plant, i know they can't possibly back the cars in (like you have to do on a typical round and round model railroad. By what method do the engineers bring the cars in to be unloaded and then how do they get the engines around to the other side of the unit to take the empties out. I know it has something to do with a "runaround" track but I still cant understand how it works. Can anyone take the time to explain how to turn my train around when it reaches its destination and maybe post some pics or layout designs that might help.

Thanks in advance,
Mark