The graphit goes under the throw but good to know. I wonder how conductive it is because I have never had an issue with it.
rrebell If you need lubrication, powdered graphit is the way, used on locks mainly.
If you need lubrication, powdered graphit is the way, used on locks mainly.
Graphite is conductive, so good to read some prior threads (one below) about where applied and/or how liberally.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/203034.aspx
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
peahrensust a piece of thin scrape brass from a structure kit. I got the idea from someone on the forum.
OK, I thought all the lilttle nibs sticking out might have been for other uses.
I am definitely making one of these.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190peahrens To clean under the points area, if you have a piece of thin brass, make a 90-degree bend near the end to create a tiny "L" that you can slip under the points and work it back & forth to ensure you have no grit under them. Then vacuum. Paul, great idea! does the tool you posted have other uses, or was it just a piece of scrap you bent?
Just a piece of thin scrap brass from a structure kit. I got the idea from someone on the forum.
peahrensTo clean under the points area, if you have a piece of thin brass, make a 90-degree bend near the end to create a tiny "L" that you can slip under the points and work it back & forth to ensure you have no grit under them. Then vacuum.
Paul, great idea! does the tool you posted have other uses, or was it just a piece of scrap you bent?
There was a lot of great information in your post. Thank you for typing it all for us.
kenben The .032 music wire fixed the problem!!
The .032 music wire fixed the problem!!
Super! The 0.032" music wire is not only thicker but also less flexible (if it were the same diameter) than the Tortoise wire type supplied. Makes a big difference.
When laying a turnout in place, I carefully mark where the drawbar passed underneath it. I notch a small groove with a barrel sanding disc with my Dremel. After carefully laying ballast, keeping it away from moving parts, I apply light drops of LaBelle plastic compatible oil, then affix the ballast in place with diluted white glue.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
kenben(6) It appears to me if the Tortoise wire was a bit thicker it would fix the problem. Will .032" music wire fit into that tiny hole on the Tortoise? And where can I get the .032 music wire and LaBelle light oil?
You can get the music wire at Amazon. Some folks go heavier than the 0.032". The small pack will do 8-12 Tortoises. Some folks buy elsewhere for a better value. The Labelle light oil is #108 and is also on Amazon. It is what I use for HO motor bearings lube.
https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Metals-5501-Alambre-fabricado/dp/B002WXGIHC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1K50FK640MFPG&dchild=1&keywords=032+music+wire&qid=1590455002&sprefix=.032+music%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Labelle-Industries-Plastic-Compatible-Motor/dp/B001W8XD44/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=labelle+oil&qid=1590455134&sr=8-1
The 0.032" wire is a bit too large to fit into the small Tortoise lever hole. Just use a pin vise and a 1/32" bit to enlarge the hole. If the turnout is secured in place, note that you can replace the throw wire without removing the Tortoise and having to stab the new wire through the throwbar from underneath. (The latter is not difficult if near the table edge but farther in can be less than fun.)
After removing the old wire, center the points with some toothpicks or other. Manually center the Tortoise lever and enlarge the lever hole for the wire. Take a longer than needed piece of music wire (e.g., 12") and create the main bend in the wire near one end, but do not add the 90-degree bend yet that will be needed for the lever. Put a piece of tape on the wire away from the Tortoise end and thread it through the throwbar from above. The tape will prevent the whole wire from falling through.
Go under the table and thread the wire through the Tortoise pivot point hole. Now, use pliers and create the small 90-degree bend that will go into the Tortoise lever hole. Put the wire in the lever hole and tighten the screw that holds it in place. Check that the sliding green pivot point is well down towards the floor for max leverage.
Go atop the table and power up to check operation. If all is well, you can trim the wire between the points at the throwbar. Cutting the music wire requires the right kind of hardened wire cutting pliers. Standard wire cutters will be harmed by the hard music wire. I had to buy the right kind of pliers just for that.
https://allindustrial.com/crescent-ps5429c-8-diagonal-compound-pliers/?matchtype=e&network=o&device=c&adposition=&keyword=&campaign=296456090&adgroup=1263338991423267&msclkid=68570f0100431c14ef6f51cd774701d7&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP%20Shop%20-%20Catch%20All&utm_term=4582558307670047&utm_content=Shopping%20Catch%20All
NOTE: It would be reassuring to distinguish, if possible, whether the issue is the points rails friction with the ties, as opposed to the throwbar hanging up either against an adjacent tie or the cork or other interference underneath (one of Brent's points). On the latter issue, it is good practice to file away some cork underneath the throwbar, before installation, to avoid friction with the cork.
NOTE: No ballast has been applied yet. Track is on cork roadbed.
(1) I don't have anything, as yet, to make an "L" bracket to clean under the point rails.
(2) The slot in the plywood and cork are not interferring with movement of the Tortoise wire.
(3) The Tortoise wire centers up in the center of the tracks' rail points.
(4) The point rail appears to be binding against something when switched in that direction. The Tortoise wire is bending slightly due to this. If I tap the point rail it will "snap" into position. I've tried cleaning what I can around this area. Blew air. Vaccumed the area. Maybe lube is the answer. This turnout was installed about 2 months ago and was working fine until yesterday. I have been working in that area laying more track and wiring.
(6) It appears to me if the Tortoise wire was a bit thicker it would fix the problem. Will .032" music wire fit into that tiny hole on the Tortoise? And where can I get the .032 music wire and LaBelle light oil?
Thanks.
I have quite a few Walthers TOs and ran into your problem once upon a time. Get a good magnefying glass and look at everything that moves while it is moving from the tortoise to linkages to throwbars. Make sure wire in holes can rotate freely.
My problem was a sagging throwbar that would snag on things, I just glued a piece of styrene to the tie on either side and it worked perfectly after that.
Don't get discouraged everything can be made to work properly, though sometimes you really have to make like Sherlock Holmes to find the culprit. It is a learning experience.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
If I suspect the tie-tops and/or throwbar to have gotten 'sticky' due to adhesives or grit, I wet the area carefully, no large gobbets of water splashed over the general area, and wait for at least a full minute...two is better. Then take a clean paper towel and dip a corner here and there into the ballast and over the ties to try to soak up what can be soaked up. A bit more water, wait two three, and repeat with a fresh sheet of paper towel.
Work the mechanism a few times, and then hand wipe with yet another clean sheet of paper towel, this time paying attention to the foot of the points and the tie tops on which they appear to slide. Same for the throwbar...lots of mopping up anything that can be mopped up.
Unfortunately, you must then let it dry for hours and test once more to see if you have solved the problem of binding points and throwbar.
Note: this would all be done AFTER having removed all loose and misplaced grains of ballast visible, using an Opti-Visor and good light and some cheap Dollar Store dental-type steel picks. Vacuum thoroughly prior to doing the water and paper towel process.
Several thoughts:
1. To clean under the points area, if you have a piece of thin brass, make a 90-degree bend near the end to create a tiny "L" that you can slip under the points and work it back & forth to ensure you have no grit under them. Then vacuum.
20200221_115528 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
2. Before getting to lubrication, are you certain that the Tortoise spring is not hitting the roadbed hole before getting the points fully closed in the offending direction? That can be due to a too small roadbed hole and/or the wire not being centered in the hole (to allow enough movement without the wire hitting the hole.
3. Double check that the Tortoise tension is similar in both directions, and the wire is not biased in one direction. With power off, manually move the Tortoise lever to the middle. Are the points then at near center, or biased in one direction significantly. An offset can be due to off-center Tortoise position and/or imperfect throw wire shape.
4. Is it possible that there is binding at the throwbar and one of the adjacent headblock(?) ties. I have some Walthers-Shinohara code 83 where that is the case and the spring tends to push the throwbar against the one adjacent tie, like a binding issue. A lube to try there can be LaBelle 134 powdered PTFE (not graphite).
5. If there is binding under the points, I had that problem twice.
When I painted the track with rattle-can camo paint, I got a bit heavy handed and there became sticky / too thick paint inhibiting points movement. After the paint was good and dry, working the points with some downward force by hand got them free enough.
I tried ballasting my first turnouts with some light ballast between the points area ties and had problems, due to some ballast dust hurting points movement. I used the brass L shape to loosen things, worked the points by hand, vacuumed, then added a small amount of LaBelle light oil. Don't over-do that or you might get eventual oil-dust crud inhibiting movement.
6. While we would like to get all our turnout / Tortoise work neat and clean, sometimes the setup is just a bit off and a bit more help is the easy way out. The standard Tortoise wire is not that stiff. My setup is on 5/8"plywood and standard cork roadbed, where the standard wire should be fine. But upgrading to 0.032" or larger music wire makes a big difference and overcomes many marginal issues. When I encountered my ballast issues, I stopped ballasting in the points area, but i also went around the layout and upgraded nearly all my throw wires to 0.032" music wire.
Those are my ideas. Do you have this issue with other turnouts? Did you paint and/or ballast the turnout?
I have a Walthers curved turnout with a Tortoise switch motor. When the turnout is switched to the right the point rails snap into place. But when switched to the left the point rail is not snapping solid against the left rail. There is plenty of tension from the Tortoise to snap the point rail all the way, but far too often it's leaving a gap and causes the train to derail. What kind of lubrication could I apply to the plastic moving parts of the turnout point rail ties? I can maunally slide the point rails to go all the way to the left. And back and forth to try and clean out what might be causing it not the move freely and smoothly. What do I use to clean this area of a turnout?