I am preparing a stream in a corner of the layout. I am following Dave Frary's suggestions in "How to Build Realistic Model Railroad Scenery". He describes, after preparing the stream banks & bottom, matte and gloss medium can be used as the "water".
I have the stream bed prepared. I was going to use Woodland Scenics E-Z Water but have decided against that. So, I was preparing to go with matte medium (first coat) or gloss medium (top coat) for the water, as Mr. Frary describes. I happened to have an old, unused jar of Windsor & Newton Galeria Acrylic Gloss Medium on hand. It is quite fluid, perhaps the consistency of light cream. Yesterday, I put a dab on a piece of cardboard. Today it is still very soft, and stays soft even with applying air from my heat gun. Questions:
1. Would the W&N eventually harden? It seems unlikely. I am unlikely to try it on my prepared work and end up with a soft mess.
2. Is Mod Podge Gloss Medium different? Perhaps more thick? Importantly, how does it harden? I can get that locally.
3. Any other insight on using "medium" as water? Do I need to buy a certain one?
Thanks for any help.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Paul, the mediums take days to dry. On my last layout, I used epoxy in two layers, the top one tinted, and then applied Mod Podge (gloss medium from Wally's) in a thin layer and stippled it as best I could (too cheap to re-open the jar of gel gloss medium I had sealed six years earlier). The peaks were opaque-whitish for at least four days, the thickest and highest ones. So, walk away and do other things for now.
I would not use matte for anything but ballast or scenery elements that are not meant to be shiny.
It is also possible for chemicals to just plain get old, and not function properly. Give your test a week, and if it didn't work, try plan B.
One of our club members just used latex chaulk for an ocean front scene and it was impressive. Again try it on scrap first.
I tried matte medium and I remember using a hair dryer to try to get it to dry. I can't remember how long it took.
I mixed craft colors with mine and while I liked the color, I had a lot of problems with bubbles.
My old thread with pictures
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Been nearly 5 yrs since doing my water effects with acrylic gloss gel on plexi, but I'd suggest trying a test pc with your chosen medium. No matter the technique nor brush the bubbling I got with both Liquitex gloss medium and Mod Podge were a no go for me.
Regards and happy H2Oing, Peter
DSC02762 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
DSC02762
I use Mod Podge gloss. It seems a bit thicker than typical acrylic gloss, and goes on for me with fewer bubbles.
Rob Spangler
wp8thsub DSC02762 by wp8thsub, on Flickr I use Mod Podge gloss. It seems a bit thicker than typical acrylic gloss, and goes on for me with fewer bubbles.
by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Do you pour it and spread with a brush? Is it thin enough that it flows down a slight slope (if my base is not quite level) or will it kinda stay where I brush it, like polyurethane varnish?
Has anyone considered MinWax Polycrylic gloss?
Rob, Pretty as a picture, superb modeling and a great shot. I do recall less bubbling with the mod Podge when applied gently with a large mop brush.
peahrensDo you pour it and spread with a brush? Is it thin enough that it flows down a slight slope (if my base is not quite level) or will it kinda stay where I brush it, like polyurethane varnish?
I apply it in blobs with a soft brush. It doesn't flow much - it's the consistency of white glue more or less, so it stays where you apply it.
As for texture, will brush strokes flatten out with Mod Podge? That water looks so real. How do you get the ripple effect?
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
Acylic mediums do not dry, they cure. Used gloos liquitex on last layout. Don't know how you get bubbles with it unless it is defective or applyed on wrong material that outgases.
Sierra ManAs for texture, will brush strokes flatten out with Mod Podge?
They will somewhat. If you apply it thick enough the brush marks mostly disappear.
How do you get the ripple effect?
That comes from applying the Mod Podge as a series of blobs.
DSC00628 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
DSC00628
Here's how it looks going on. I mostly drop the Mod Podge in place with vertical brush strokes, trying to leave minimal evidence of bristle marks.
DSC02751 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
DSC02751
Comparing to the application photo, this view shows how the wave pattern develops as the material dries. The smaller brush marks turn into their own ripples, which look convincing enough if you make sure they don't have an obvious brush stroke pattern.
HO-Velo Been nearly 5 yrs since doing my water effects with acrylic gloss gel on plexi... Peter
Been nearly 5 yrs since doing my water effects with acrylic gloss gel on plexi... Peter
Lots of variables involved, but don't know what created the gloss medium and Mod Podge bubbles, though I've heard of clouding when applied in high humidity. My test pieces were plexiglass and fully cured Envirotex-lite. After the mediums cured there was a cloudy appearance where the tiny bubbles had gathered on the surface.
hardcoalcaseelaborate on your method?
Thanks Jim, The choppy water is Liquitex gloss gel applied to plexiglass with a narrow popsicle stick. A repetitive method borrowed from Terranscapes apt video demonstration. The backside of the plexiglass is painted the 'water' color and then sealed with a coat of black.
Takes some practice to get tuned in and conscious effort to keep the chop pattern random. Is time consuming and can get a little monotonous over a large area, but then I find some tedium along with upbeat jazz in the background relaxing.
Regards, Peter
Thanks Peter!
Jim
Hi Jim,
I think that one of the critical points that everyone is mentioning is the amount of humidity that you have in the room when you are applying gloss medium/modge podge or any other acrylic medium. I used a high gloss Modge Podge that I could pour into my river space. I did this in the winter when the humidity was low and it took a few days to set really hard. 5 years later and the surface is still nice and shiny, does not scratch easily.
If you do go ahead with a gloss medium, make sure that you have low humidty and cover the area so dust doesn't land on the surface before it hardens.
Scott Sonntag
Ultra shiny result.
Use ultra shinning Liquitex gloss medium
Liquitex offer a gloss medium but also a named "ultra gloss medium"; dry translucide but really glossy, you can see yours as a reflect.
Much better than Mod Podge or all the medium I have used.
Here is an update:
I decided against using the Windsor & Newton gloss medium as it was so slow to dry and watery. I was able to purchase Mod Podge gloss medium locally at Michaels (order online, contactless curbside pickup) and found it had more body and dried quicker.
Here is the area prepped. The banks (one with cardboard strips & plastercloth) and stream bottom have a coat of Scuptamold. The river bottom was painted with a flat black base coat, then some blue, a bit of light green and the banks painted my earth color. The banks were scenicked with fine & coarse earth colors. Before the first coat of gloss medium, I added some sand and small rocks in the streambed and along the banks.
IMG_7156 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
IMG_7165 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
I applied a first coat of gloss medium with a pipette, doing 1/3 of the length at a time and applying parallel strips that pretty much blended together, but not completely flat. The pipette was great at NOT making bubbles...I thnk I had 2 small bubbles in the whole section. I did not attempt to brush in additional ripples, deferring until later. The first photo is after applying; the second is after about 6 hours or so (partially cured).
IMG_7166 by IMG_7167 by Paul Ahrens, on FlickrPaul Ahrens, on Flickr
The next shot is after 24 hours for the first coat. Clear except at one spot not quite finished. At this point, I added a tiny dab of gloss medium upstream of some streambed rocks, and then added a touch of white paint at those rocks to imitate some foam. Gel medium would have been ideal for the dab added.
IMG_7168 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
The next shot is after a 2nd gloss medium coat. It added some depth and helped the "underwater" colors blend a bit better than my painting had blended the deeper vs. shallow colors. I considered a 3rd coat ala Rob's approach for more ripples, but when I experimented on some cardboard I found my technique was tending to create a number of small bubbles, so I left well enough alone.
The tan banks adjacent to the water looked a bit too shiny, so I tinkered with that by painting a bit of semi-gloss acrylic on some areas to tone it down. It is hard to capture the real look in photos.
IMG_7176 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
IMG_7182 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
I am reasonably pleased with the outcome for a first attempt. (The next attempt will have to be on a future(??) layout, which requires moving (unplanned) and slow aging (not doing well at that). Thanks for the various comments that indeed were helpful.
peahrensI am reasonably pleased with the outcome for a first attempt.
You should be - that turned out nice.
peahrenspleased with the outcome
Paul, Nice stretch of water there, and it compliments your nice layout.
Hi peahrens
Any water I have done has been shallow enough that I can use high gloss artists varnish in a couple of thick coats applied with a brush over a few days.
So cannot comment on the specific matierals you list.
However what ever you use to represent water should dry transparent so any extra details like car body's bed frames wading birds what ever you choose to add for a more detailed look can be seen.
Any ducks or other surface water birds should be carefully added just at the point of very first setting so they A float and B stick to the water DON'T TOUCH again untill fully cured.
I have found that anything that does not have a High gloss finish does not look wet like water once fully dry and set.
You will know if it worked or not by can you see the reflection of the suroundings in the water if so it worked if not it didn't.
RESIST COMPLETLY the temptation to touch untill it is fully dry and set rivers do not come come with finger prints in them.
For what it is worth thats my 2c on it
regards John
Paul I think it looks good. It might need some white caps, hard to tell because my eyes are drawn to your loco and track work
Fantastic work on the water. I've not done it yet, but will once I finish the eletrical. Slowly!
Has the OP considered using Envirotex? I'm curious how that works compared to the other products.
kasskabooseHas the OP considered using Envirotex? I'm curious how that works compared to the other products.
I was aware of "Envirotex" from reading other threads, and know that it gets good reviews. I decided to go with a gloss medium as it seemed satisfactory and I was not keen on pouring on an epoxy type liquid. In retrospect, I am very satisfied with how the gloss Mod Podge worked with a pipette for my situation.
You can read more about Envirotex in threads from this (or another) Google search. And see the product video on Envirotex Lite. I was not aware of the "Lite" distinction but when looking at their site I conclude that is the only product modellers are discussing; i.e., there is not a Lite and a heavier one.
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acs.trains.com+envirotex+water&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS879US880&oq=site%3Acs.trains.com+envirotex+water&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.12394j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3A%20cs.trains.com%20envirotex%20water&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=site%3A%20cs.trains.com%20envirotex%20water&sc=3-35&sk=&cvid=356C7A39666F415582C166C999B2C67C
peahrens You can read more about Envirotex in threads from this (or another) Google search. And see the product video on Envirotex Lite. I was not aware of the "Lite" distinction but when looking at their site I conclude that is the only product modellers are discussing; i.e., there is not a Lite and a heavier one.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainEnvirotex Lite replaced the original Envirotex formulation which produced a strong odor when mixed and poured. Envirotex Lite has no odor.
It also has only half the calories of regular Envirotex.
Modeltrainstuff just posted a youtube video on creating a pond. 3 minutes were landscaping around and underneath the pond. In the last 15 seconds, they poured an unnamed product and created the pond.
So worthless I won't even give you a link.