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New layout

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  • Member since
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New layout
Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:11 AM

So after working on my 4x8 for a few months, I ran into lots of issues ( wiring, places trains are derailing, not enough opperations, and how i regret using 18" turns and turnouts) so I tore it all up and am now startiong with a blank page. I found a layout I really like but have a question on what turnouts to use and how to wire it. I want bigger locomotives to be able to handle the turnouts without problems. Im using code 83 atlas turnouts. Any advice is greatly appreciated on how to get this ball rolling. 

Tags: 4X8
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Posted by garya on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:03 PM

Ringo58

So after working on my 4x8 for a few months, I ran into lots of issues ( wiring, places trains are derailing, not enough opperations, and how i regret using 18" turns and turnouts) so I tore it all up and am now startiong with a blank page. I found a layout I really like but have a question on what turnouts to use and how to wire it. I want bigger locomotives to be able to handle the turnouts without problems. Im using code 83 atlas turnouts. Any advice is greatly appreciated on how to get this ball rolling. 

Cuyama aka Byron Henderson posts here quite a bit, so let's hope he chimes in.  

I assume the "6"s by some turnouts mean they are #6 turnouts.  I'll guess the others may be #4s.

I am compelled to point out that this layout also uses 18" radius turns, though, on the inner loop.

Gary

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Posted by Billwiz on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:09 PM

Byron also has a really nice "doughnut" layout plan he has published that uses the same space as 4 x 8 and accomodates 22" radius curves.  It is worth checking out.

 edit:  actually it is 6 x 8 but still worth checking out https://www.layoutvision.com/ho-6x8-donut

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:10 PM

Ringo58

I regret using 18" turns and turnouts) so I tore it all up and am now startiong with a blank page. I found a layout I really like but have a question on what turnouts to use and how to wire it. I want bigger locomotives to be able to handle the turnouts without problems. I'm using code 83 atlas turnouts. 

Two questions.

One, what will be your minimum radius on curves? In my experience, the bare minimum should be 24" radius curves to avoid derailments of larger locos and longer cars. 

Two, what number will you select for the Atlas Code 83 turnouts? While you may get by with #4 turnouts, in my experience, performance will be much better with #6 turnouts. So, consider Atlas Custom Line Code 83 #6 turnouts.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by garya on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:54 PM

Gary

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:13 PM

garya

 

Think about a different design though:

https://www.layoutvision.com/around-the-room-in-8x10

 

 

I like this design a lot and I think Im goin to run with it! Thank you for also linking the website, Its exactly what I was looking for

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Posted by garya on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:16 PM

Ringo58

 

 
garya

 

Think about a different design though:

https://www.layoutvision.com/around-the-room-in-8x10

 

 

 

 

I like this design a lot and I think Im goin to run with it! Thank you for also linking the website, Its exactly what I was looking for

 

 

Good!  Go for it!

Byron has comparisons of 4X8s against other designs:

https://www.layoutvision.com/why-waste-the-space-on-a-4x8

Lots of good info there...

Gary

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:24 PM

garya

 

 
 

I am compelled to point out that this layout also uses 18" radius turns, though, on the inner loop.

 

I noticed and am okay with that. I don't use too large of cars, my longest being a 60' bulkhead and my longest loco a GEVO, but even the GEVO could handle the 18" and snap switches on the old layout like a champ, looked goofy doing it but was a champ

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:56 PM

richhotrain

 

 
 

Two questions.

 

One, what will be your minimum radius on curves? In my experience, the bare minimum should be 24" radius curves to avoid derailments of larger locos and longer cars. 

Two, what number will you select for the Atlas Code 83 turnouts? While you may get by with #4 turnouts, in my experience, performance will be much better with #6 turnouts. So, consider Atlas Custom Line Code 83 #6 turnouts.

Rich

 

Minimum radi would be 18" on the inside loop. Fine for me as I would be running GEEPs and an mp15 in the inside and leave the outside main for my SDs and my GEVO and I found the link to the original design and its #6s on the main and #4 in the industries. As for my cars go, most are 50' and the largest is a 60' bulkhead flat

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:05 PM

I would strongly suggest an "obstacle course" for all equipment before it goes onto your layout.

I build mine from Kato HO scale unitrack, and all pieces must be able to run thropugh the course before they are certified for operation.

The obstacles are a 24 inch radius double reverse S curve with no tangent trackage, both directions of Kato's small turnouts, and 19 inch radius curves in both directions without S curves.

They must do this coupled to a 36 foot car on one end and a 60 foot car on the other.

Making the obstacle course out of Kato unitrack makes it very easy to store and get out when it is needed.

These conditions are more severe than what will be encountered on the layout.

-Kevin

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Posted by jjdamnit on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:51 PM

Hello All,

Ringo58
...even the GEVO could handle the 18" and snap switches on the old layout like a champ, looked goofy doing it but was a champ...

What was the track plan and dimensions of "the old layout"?

Yes, 85-foot passenger cars will run through my 15-inch curves and the Atlas Snap Switches being pulled by a consist of A-B-B F-units on the head end with a reversed A F-unit for the "return". However, this is the exception and not the norm on my 4'x8' pike.

The 15-inch curves are part of an asymmetrical curve. The curves are half 15-inch radii to 18-inch radii.

Your initial post was regarding a 4'x8' walk around pike. Now you are contemplating an around the wall pike.

I'm a bit confused...

What is the actual space you are working with?

Are you seeking/limited to a 4'x8' or can you have an alternate bench work configuration?

Something to consider as you expand your railroad empire...

"A model railroad should probably start with a concept. Why? Because much knowledge about railroading, experience in model railroading, and thought are required before a proper concept for a model railroad can be formed. These requirements are seldom possible on a first pike. Mine was no exception."
- -John Allen; Gorre & Daphetid Railroad.

You have created several posts regarding the same theme, one has been locked.

If you can focus on one aspect of your needs; layout design, wiring, operations, the folks on these forums can help you better.

Hope this helps.

 

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 5:06 PM

Ringo58

Minimum radi would be 18" on the inside loop. 

Didn't you start this thread by stating that you regretted installing 18" radius curves so you tore it all up?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 5:34 PM

richhotrain

 

 
 

Didn't you start this thread by stating that you regretted installing 18" radius curves so you tore it all up?

 

Rich

 

Yes. I guess I could have made myself more clear, I regretted using 18" as the mainline. I'm fine with using them on the inside loop as long as the mainline is 22"

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 5:43 PM

jjdamnit

Hello All,

 

 
Ringo58
...even the GEVO could handle the 18" and snap switches on the old layout like a champ, looked goofy doing it but was a champ...

 

What was the track plan and dimensions of "the old layout"?

Yes, 85-foot passenger cars will run through my 15-inch curves and the Atlas Snap Switches being pulled by a consist of A-B-B F-units on the head end with a reversed A F-unit for the "return". However, this is the exception and not the norm on my 4'x8' pike.

The 15-inch curves are part of an asymmetrical curve. The curves are half 15-inch radii to 18-inch radii.

Your initial post was regarding a 4'x8' walk around pike. Now you are contemplating an around the wall pike.

I'm a bit confused...

What is the actual space you are working with?

Are you seeking/limited to a 4'x8' or can you have an alternate bench work configuration?

Something to consider as you expand your railroad empire...

"A model railroad should probably start with a concept. Why? Because much knowledge about railroading, experience in model railroading, and thought are required before a proper concept for a model railroad can be formed. These requirements are seldom possible on a first pike. Mine was no exception."
- -John Allen; Gorre & Daphetid Railroad.

You have created several posts regarding the same theme, one has been locked.

If you can focus on one aspect of your needs; layout design, wiring, operations, the folks on these forums can help you better.

Hope this helps.

 

 

Sorry for the confusion and yes I am a bit all over the place and I guess im just looking for a starting point. I still am going with the 4x8 walkaround layout. Im very limited to space as im still living with my parents( only 20 ). If it was up to me I would have a wall layout but thats hard to convince the folks to let me do haha. I want this to be just more of a starter layout as in getting down the basics such as wiring, track laying and bassic scenery. I had a good start with scenery but as in wiring I was lost. I only had one set of feeder wires to the whole layout and ran into problems. I rushed it and suffered the consiquenses. I really want to take my time on this one and make it something I can take with when I'm ready to fly the coop. Thank you for helping me out. I truley appreciate everything and I'll try to stay more focused on my topics. Heres the old one  Im using the same base just flipped over for a clean slate

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 5:50 PM

If you have the space to move that layout, you really don't want to block that electrical service panel or the escape window well.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 5:54 PM

richhotrain

If you have the space to move that layout, you really don't want to block that electrical service panel or the escape window well.

Rich

 

It was moved there to clean the otherside of the basement. Thats not its final home

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 5:54 PM

Ringo58
 
richhotrain

If you have the space to move that layout, you really don't want to block that electrical service panel or the escape window well.

Rich 

It was moved there to clean the otherside of the basement. Thats not its final home 

ahh, good.

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:02 PM

Ringo58
 

That old layout actually is a commendable start. I like the look and color of the ballast, and a nice job on the landscaping. If you could talk the folks into letting you expand the layout a little, say to a 6' x 8' layout, you could broaden the radius of the mainline curves.  I believe that you are off to a good start.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:54 PM

richhotrain

 

 
Ringo58
 

 

 

That old layout actually is a commendable start. I like the look and color of the ballast, and a nice job on the landscaping. If you could talk the folks into letting you expand the layout a little, say to a 6' x 8' layout, you could broaden the radius of the mainline curves.  I believe that you are off to a good start.

 

Rich

 

Thank you! I really liked how the scenery and ballast came out, but the opperation was too basic and got boring after few minutes 

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Posted by garya on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:09 PM

I agree; you have done some nice work.  If you want to make a change, make a change.  The important thing is to do--don't get analysis paralysis.  So if you've decided to build this new layout, build it, scenic it, wire it, and operate it.  You can always change something you don't like, or start over again, if your interests change.

 

 

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:32 AM

Ringo58
 
richhotrain 
Ringo58
 

 That old layout actually is a commendable start. I like the look and color of the ballast, and a nice job on the landscaping. If you could talk the folks into letting you expand the layout a little, say to a 6' x 8' layout, you could broaden the radius of the mainline curves.  I believe that you are off to a good start. 

Rich 

Thank you! I really liked how the scenery and ballast came out, but the opperation was too basic and got boring after few minutes  

I do like continuous loops around the periphery of the layout, and I have such a track configuration on my current layout. But I have a large double mainline in a P-shape, so you cannot tell at a glance that the track forms a continuous loop. 

That is the problem with a continous loop on a very small layout. You can see that it is a continuous loop at a glance. So, it does get a bit boring fairly quickly.

Rich

Alton Junction

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