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Build a helix directly on foam?

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  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: SW Wisconsin
  • 162 posts
Posted by 60YOKID on Monday, February 17, 2020 1:09 AM

Using 1/4" plywood is flimsy, however, you will need to connect the joints somehow, and this is best done by making twice as many 1/3 circles, and overlapping the pieces and staggering the joints. This will yeild a strong roadbed for your track, However, it will be 1/2" thick. You will find a helix to be quite heavy, particularly if it has to support the upper layout! Mine is a 34" radius with double track and serves 3 levels, so it is bound to be heavier then the one you describe, however, it weights over 200 pounds! 

You definately need to suport it with joists underneath it, and not foam. Even if it ends up weighing only 55 or 60 pounds, it will soon warp your structure without proper support. Use the afore mentioned chart to design your helix and don't forget to allow enough space between the top of rails to bottom of next circle of wood, to accomodate your rolling stock.

A helix can be a fun project Smile or it can turn into a nightmare. 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: IL
  • 153 posts
Posted by zeis96 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 6:03 PM

I actually made up a crude test helix using 1/8" board. It worked as long as the supports are plentiful. For the real deal I plan on using spacers made from 1x4 cut to 3". While this is a tight fit, it was doable in the mockup I made. 

hi

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: IL
  • 153 posts
Posted by zeis96 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 5:58 PM

The foam is strictly the ground. For the helix, the track will be laid with no roadbed, directly on the 1x4 wood. 

hi

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: IL
  • 153 posts
Posted by zeis96 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 5:57 PM

I think that's what I'll end up doing. Just seeing if anyone else had experience good or bad of having a helix supported by foam. 

hi

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Sunday, February 16, 2020 4:13 PM

Even a little sag or hump in a helix can cause a problem, so I personally wouldn’t build on the foam in any way. I’d probably try to support it from the benchwork frame below, but I’m a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy.

¼" plywood is pretty thin for the deck. How will you handle joints between segments of the deck? ¼" laminated into ½" decks with overlapped seams has worked well in HO, but would require more clearance per turn.

Helixes don’t abrogate the laws of physics, unfortunately.

Good luck with your layout.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • 869 posts
Posted by davidmurray on Sunday, February 16, 2020 3:51 PM

There are two things to consider in my opinion:

1:  Grade is calculated railhead to railhead depth and diameter of circle.

2: Clearance is depth from railhead to bottom of next circle up.  If two inch foam is on top of your plywood that will eat up space that would other wise be clearance.  Keeping the same clearance will greatly increase grade unless the diameter is greatly increased.

 

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, February 16, 2020 3:29 PM

I think the way to go with a helix is several threaded rods with double nuts and large washers on the underside of each level.  Something chases just back off the lock nut and readjust. Then lock it back down again.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 16, 2020 2:15 PM

I'd have the blocks bearing directly on the bench structure below, and not on the foam.

Mike.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: IL
  • 153 posts
Posted by zeis96 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:48 PM
Most likely 2x4 blocks

hi

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:34 PM

I've never built a helix, just thinking of the support issue, I'd probably do #2.

Although you don't mention exactly what the wood blocks are.

Mike.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: IL
  • 153 posts
Build a helix directly on foam?
Posted by zeis96 on Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:15 PM

Has anyone ever built a helix directly on foam?  My lower level consists of 1/2" ply with 2" foam on top with 2x4 frames. My helix will be 28" radius using 1/4" 5-ply, about 5 turns. Each arc is less than 1/3 of a complete turn so the weight would be more spread out due to overlap?  Part of the second level would be supported by the helix as well. It's at the end of a peninsula and will go around the outside. My concern is the 2" foam not being able to support all this and possibly causing 'sinkholes' at the supports. My supports will be wood blocks. 

Option 1 Leave it, it will be fine. 

Option 2 Cut out holes in the foam for supports to go directly onto the 1/2" ply. 

Option 3 Put an initial circle of support with the 1/4" ply, on top of the foam, then build directly onto that. 

What are your thoughts/experiences?

hi

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