Not sure if this should go here or on the electronics forum, but does anyone have experience with the new Atlas signaling system? Are the signals in scale or oversized for HO? How does the system compare to NJ Intermational's system and signals? Is there a prototype for the signals themselves? Thanks.
Lefty
The signals themselves seem reasonably in scale, although their Type G signals have always seemed a bit oversize. The hooded ones are your typical modern 3 color light signals you see many places, the searchlight signals are also a standard type. The Typg G or cat's eye signals are a Reading and NYC prototype, mostly all replaced for modern era modelers with the hooded ones.
NJI's signals are a bit finer detailed, but they are also about 50% more expensive. Is it worth it? Depends on you. You can use the NJ signals with Atlas's controllers.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The whole system seems crazy expensive to me, especially the control boards and such. It is still rather limited in function, requires detectors not provided for, and does not yet offer any interlocking or CTC programming, although the manual inputs do allow you to do that by other means.......more money.
Rather than spend that kind of money, I'm willing to build some stuff.
As a 50's modeler, with a a double track mainline, most of my signals need signal bridges.
There are some guys selling LED signal heads on Ebay in kit form and Bachmann and others make affordable signal bridges........
As for scale size and detail, close enough and reasonably representative is good enough for me.
I got both two and three light heads and LED's like these to put on my signal bridges, less than $200 bought more than I will ever use:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JTD17-10-sets-Target-Faces-With-LEDs-for-Railway-signal-HO-OO-TT-Scale-2-Aspects/253397100923?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40719%26meid%3De34a2d83e4614591aecb35d3112cabb3%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D392049728916%26itm%3D253397100923%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2334524&_trksid=p2334524.c100667.m2042
The same couple of guys are selling assembled signals about $10 each - they are a little "basic" or "generic".
Sheldon
Sadly no Type G signals from those guys. I need Type Gs. While I'm not exactly replicating any specific part of the Reading, my layout is "Reading flavor" and not using Type G signals would definitely wreck that sense of flavor.
The Atlas signal controller boards are only $30 each. And do have inputs for block detection. So do the NJI boards. No, they do not do CTC, they are for APB and ABS. Be fairly difficult to make an off the shelf plug and play system like that do CTC, there are just too many possible combinations to interlock any sort of crossing, crossover, or siding.
I'm not using either one, I'm doing CTC so I am building my own. but if you don;t need or want CTC, these are viable alternatives. And you can use those inexpensive signals with either controller, too.
rrinker Sadly no Type G signals from those guys. I need Type Gs. While I'm not exactly replicating any specific part of the Reading, my layout is "Reading flavor" and not using Type G signals would definitely wreck that sense of flavor. The Atlas signal controller boards are only $30 each. And do have inputs for block detection. So do the NJI boards. No, they do not do CTC, they are for APB and ABS. Be fairly difficult to make an off the shelf plug and play system like that do CTC, there are just too many possible combinations to interlock any sort of crossing, crossover, or siding. I'm not using either one, I'm doing CTC so I am building my own. but if you don;t need or want CTC, these are viable alternatives. And you can use those inexpensive signals with either controller, too. --Randy
Agreed, however, CTC or not, my personal view of signals on a model railroad is that we never have enough distance between control points to really model APB or ABS.
Even with ABS control points need to be addressed, and I realize the Atlas system has inputs for that.
But I have always questioned the usefulness of any ABS "yellow" aspect on a model railroad. I'm in a block, so entry into that block is "red", the next block behind me is so close, but yet "operationally" so very far away in terms of what that operator might be doing, that a "yellow" or medium approach at the beginning of that block seems pointless.
Here is my method.
All the primary signals at block boundries are "absolute". Being DC, nearly all block boundries extend from control point to control point. Midway in every block is an approach signal. These are "free" they require no extra logic. They work like this:
If the control point signal ahead is green, the approach is green. If the control point signal is red, the approach is yellow. This allows the block behind my train to be assigned to the next operator, but then warns him as he approches the next control point that the abolute signal will be red.
It keeps the logic simple, it looks "bigger" and more complex than it really is, and while looking prototypical, it is really providing information that a model operator needs.
The whole thing can and does simulate CTC or ABS, because without a dispatcher on duty the whole thing responds to the local tower controls.
My only logic circuits are simple truth test relay logic thru contacts on the turnout control relays, the detection at one end of that chain and a block assignment test at the other end of that chain. So the typical signal head only has 3-5 "tests" that turn it red or green.
Yellows are only used for those approach signals, and for restricted speed interlocking routes.
So, what that $30 card does, I do with extra contacts on $3 relays I am already using to control groups of turnouts at interlockings/control points.
I had started installing the Atlas HO ''G type'' three lens red yellow green signal system back in December 2007 (I'll call this the 1st. generation 2006 year). I had little knowlege with RR signal systems. I liked how it worked. I had to install flat resistors w/trace paint on some axels of rolling stock wheel sets otherwise the system would only pick up locos. and passenger/caboose cars with lighting. With one exception, the Atlas HO NE6 caboose would trip the lights. I found a resistor in the hollow plastic axel. I talked to my LHS and he made a call to Atlas. The Techs. at Atlas said ''There are no resistors on any wheel sets and none in the axels''. ok so much for techs. knowing their products. I showed Brian (LHS) the resistor on my next trip in. A call was made again to Atlas and had the same answer ''No resistor''. But there it is.
THEN Atlas dropped the ball and the system dried up, no where to be found (1/4 of the railroad had a signal system). This project got a red light and stopped dead in it's tracks. Every time when I'd see Atlas reps. at train shows, I'd ask about the system. I got some answers and some shruggs.
Well just this year Oct. 2019 I found the Atlas (generation II, 2018 V2.5) HO G type signal system on the shelf again. I'm not sure how it will work, new and improved. I've not installed any parts of the new system V2.5 yet.
The Atlas HO mast, head, base, work platform, safety bar, nut/bolt detal are super. With holding both Atlas and NJI signals in hand, I'd give the Atlas above grade over NJI.
EDIT: I do not know which is more correct, the Atlas has 42'' from the work platform to the top of the safety bar, NJI has 54'' from the work platform to the top of the safety bar.
I have a question for the Signal people out here. As the Engineer when passing the Type G signal head, will he see the green light change to red as he enters the block? Or will the light change to red after passing the signal head? I do know about cab control lights, I just would like to know if the Engineer could actually sees the signal head light change from green to red?
EDIT: I'm wating for the Atlas HO PRR type 3 aspect with the 7 lens signal head to hit the market.
As all of of you know.Atlas purchased the BLMA CO signal system. Blma gave no, zero, nada, instructions for instalation. How do I know? spent a, lot of $ on them and not being an electricien was very frustrated. ANYWAY, the new ATLAS controler was developed by ATLAS to handle ALL the signals be they ATLAS or BLMA. ATLAS enclosed a full instruction book that even I could follow! I recommend this system.
PC101I have a question for the Signal people out here. As the Engineer when passing the Type G signal head, will he see the green light change to red as he enters the block? Or will the light change to red after passing the signal head?
Neither a signal guy nor a real railroader, but I think catching a red signal out the corner of the eye might make the the engineer think he ran a red.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I'm curious if the Atlas system is era-specific? Obviously it would be unprofitable for a company to provide an entire line of signals for each broadly defined railroading period. So does the current set of Atlas signals fall into any certain time frame? Are we talking 40's? 80's? Modern?
Andy
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Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/196857529@N03/
The Milwaukee Road Warrior I'm curious if the Atlas system is era-specific? Obviously it would be unprofitable for a company to provide an entire line of signals for each broadly defined railroading period. So does the current set of Atlas signals fall into any certain time frame? Are we talking 40's? 80's? Modern?
They have several different types of signals.The hooded signals are modern present day. The Type "G" triangular signals and the target signals have a long history but were only used on some roads.
I have not studied the signal types for all roads, only the ones of interest to me, but from what I know, targets and type "D" color light signals were most popular and used by a great number of roads. These two types cover a wide range of time on the roads that used them.
The PRR had their own position light system, as did the N&W and the B&O. None of those systems were the same.
In general, railroad did not change signal systems. One a system was in place in the teens or twenties, they generally stayed with that system. It is only recently that some serious effort has been made to replace many of the old systems.
Understand that what controls the signals has been continiously upgraded, but the actual trackside signals have stayed the same on many roads for 80 to 100 years.
You can learn a lot more here:
https://www.railroadsignals.us/
I just had a look at the Atlas signals. If they can sell a bunch at those prices I should buy stock in Atlas! If our club was to buy 30 searchlight signals with all the bits, which is about what we will install on our under construction layout, we would be looking at about $2700.00 Cdn.! We are in the process of scratch building our own searchlight signals and I think when all is done that we will have spent about $400.00 for the whole shebang!
Anybody who can solder half decently and use a dremel tool can do it easily. If you need more complex signal heads than the searchlight type, Shapeway can supply them.
Here is my thread on building searchlight signals. The thread covers both HO and N scale signals:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/277895.aspx
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Nice work Dave!, and others on his thread who made their own signals.
The Atlas signals:
https://shop.atlasrr.com/c-1103-ho-signal-system.aspx
After the CN took over the WC, they have been steadily replacing and up dating signals.
Most of the older searchlight types are gone.
Mike.
My You Tube
I suppose if I got a decent 3D printer I could eventually make my own Type G. Not as simple as a searchlight. So I'm stuck. But I'm not sure I need 30 signals even for both decks of my planned layout, either.
And if you think Atlas is expensive, check out the NJI ones.
BigDaddy PC101 I have a question for the Signal people out here. As the Engineer when passing the Type G signal head, will he see the green light change to red as he enters the block? Or will the light change to red after passing the signal head? Neither a signal guy nor a real railroader, but I think catching a red signal out the corner of the eye might make the the engineer think he ran a red.
PC101 I have a question for the Signal people out here. As the Engineer when passing the Type G signal head, will he see the green light change to red as he enters the block? Or will the light change to red after passing the signal head?
My primary train watching spots around DC have plenty of easily observed signals. The greens don't drop to red until the locomotive is well past the signal.
Mel - Thanks for the fantastic description of your signal system. I am enjoying reading all the details. Your signals look great.
On a radio note, I plan to earn my amateur radio license(s) sometime this decade and will also have model radio stations (both amateur and commercial) on my layout. Should be fun building the antennas from scratch.
NittanyLionThe greens don't drop to red until the locomotive is well past the signal.
Same as what I see watching the CN.
NittanyLion BigDaddy PC101 I have a question for the Signal people out here. As the Engineer when passing the Type G signal head, will he see the green light change to red as he enters the block? Or will the light change to red after passing the signal head? Neither a signal guy nor a real railroader, but I think catching a red signal out the corner of the eye might make the the engineer think he ran a red. My primary train watching spots around DC have plenty of easily observed signals. The greens don't drop to red until the locomotive is well past the signal.
That makes me feel better, thank you guys. It would make me frighten to think if I was the engineer seeing the green trip to red, '' Did I trip the block or did something just enter the other end?''
ROCK MILW Mel - Thanks for the fantastic description of your signal system. I am enjoying reading all the details. Your signals look great. On a radio note, I plan to earn my amateur radio license(s) sometime this decade and will also have model radio stations (both amateur and commercial) on my layout. Should be fun building the antennas from scratch.