And don't call me Francis!
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
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carl425carl425 wrote the following post 36 minutes ago: riogrande5761 The topic is about benchwork legs being in-set, ...and that's the question he answered. His are set-in 100%.
Gotta point there!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 oldline1 I built my new layout with the legs cantilevered from the outboard side of the benchwork down to the baseboards. It is strong and lets me clean the floor without having to fight legs in the way. No problems with tripping over them. oldline1 I always love those posts with: this is how you could have done it - but you didn't. Most of my layout will not be against a wall, so unless you have some anti-grav units I can install ...
oldline1 I built my new layout with the legs cantilevered from the outboard side of the benchwork down to the baseboards. It is strong and lets me clean the floor without having to fight legs in the way. No problems with tripping over them. oldline1
I built my new layout with the legs cantilevered from the outboard side of the benchwork down to the baseboards. It is strong and lets me clean the floor without having to fight legs in the way. No problems with tripping over them.
oldline1
I always love those posts with: this is how you could have done it - but you didn't.
Most of my layout will not be against a wall, so unless you have some anti-grav units I can install ...
Gary
riogrande5761The topic is about benchwork legs being in-set,
...and that's the question he answered. His are set-in 100%.
Lighten up - if you really want to be the stay-on-topic police, you should have called out Randy (or me for responding) for his C-bracket post which was more of an "alternate method of suspending benchwork" than oldline1's post.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
oldline1 I don't understand your issue with my post. I said that's how I built this layout. I don't see your point? oldline1
I don't understand your issue with my post. I said that's how I built this layout. I don't see your point?
The topic is about benchwork legs being in-set, not alternate methods of suspending benchwork, for what it's worth. Have a
I'm kind of late to this thread, but I wanted to tell what happened to me with some flooring.
We have a very dry basement with bare concrete floors. When we moved in, I decided to put an unfinished bedroom in just to use as overflow.
I found some carpet squares with glue backing on a closeout for about 90¢ a sq foot. You just peal and stick - nothing to it. It looked great when I finished.
Several years later, the carpet didn't look so good, and I was ready to put in more permanent flooring. I pulled up the carpet squares, and you know what was left - a layer of glue.
I tried everything including some chemicals that nearly made me pass out. Finally, after ending up with more of a gooey mess, I went to the flooring experts. They suggested several commercial products that would remove the glue.
None of them worked.
I finally used very hot water on small sections, and on my hands and knees on the sticky floor, I scraped as much as I could with a razor blade.
I have no idea why the commercial products didn't work. I have no idea why nothing worked.
I have some of the old carpet squares left if anyone wants them. But you have to be someone I don't like before I give them to you.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
riogrande5761riogrande5761 wrote the following post 23 hours ago: oldline1 I built my new layout with the legs cantilevered from the outboard side of the benchwork down to the baseboards. It is strong and lets me clean the floor without having to fight legs in the way. No problems with tripping over them. oldline1 I always love those posts with: this is how you could have done it - but you didn't. Most of my layout will not be against a wall, so unless you have some anti-grav units I can install ... My last layout had legs all around and not in-set, and I don't recall ever tripping on the or kicking them. But am in-setting them this time around as a precautionary measure.
Randy,
I don't understand your issue with my post. I said that's how I built this layout. I don't see your point? What part of my post offended you THIS TIME?
Mike, that sounds about right. When you consider most finished rooms have a baseboard, and possibly also quarter-round, then the gap at the sides, even is hidden, which is normal.
The "padded" stuff I bought was about $3 a sqaure foot. The wear surface is 20 mils thick.
I used this in our place in the north woods of WI., my train room down here at home in SE. WI., is concrete with a few carpet sections.
I think what you used looks great. Much nicer than my train room floor looks.
With vinyl plank flooring, you just have to maintain a 1/4" space around anything permanent.
Mike.
My You Tube
Robert, you're good!
The padded stuff is pricey it sounds like.
We scored the cut edge with a utility knife and snapped it off. All the edges were not even. Most were slightly under the drywall which is about a half inch above the floor. The baseboard covers all the edges.
The padded stuff is $4-5/sq at Lowes. There's an ioutlet store called Ollies that recently listed the padded stuff at the same prices Lowes charges for the non-padded. Not sure how much and of what colors they have, that's always the gamble. Would be nice to get enough of the padded stuff for under $2/sq.
One thing about it I'm not sure of, because I never looked that closely at it yet, is what if I don;t go wall to wall, such as just doing my walkway area from the front and garage doors over to the stairs, how do you trim the open edge? With wood/laminate there's edging to use.
--Randy
riogrande5761 I always love those posts with: this is how you could have done it - but you didn't - responses, in a self congratulatory tone.
I always love those posts with: this is how you could have done it - but you didn't - responses, in a self congratulatory tone.
I hope my posts and responses don't have such a tone. I certainly don't mean to sound self-congratulatory, and if I do (or ever have) I apologize.
Sincerely,
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
My last layout had legs all around and not in-set, and I don't recall ever tripping on the or kicking them. But am in-setting them this time around as a precautionary measure.
The faux wood vinyl planking was near the cheapest available for a floor. Mine wasn't padded however. Not sure how much the padded version would be / sq ft. Anything easy on the feet would be nice. I plan on using some of those interlocking mats which I already have plus maybe some 2x2 carpet tiles if I can find some cheap for the walkways.
The wood look vinyl seems kind of cheap compared to some options, considering it is padded, easy to install, and waterproof, making cleanup a breeze. Now you have me toying with using it over my entire basement. I was going to do just the entry area, bathroom, and laundry area, and leave the layout area just epoxy on the bare cement with carpet tiles in the aisle areas for comfortable standing.
Nice to finally be done with the basement finishing. It was a lot of work and time but rewarding. As I look at the drywall, it looks better than much of the main and second floors.
I didn't want to go too dark on the vinyl planking and finding little parts hopefully won't be too difficult. It's fairy easy to clean drops of paint etc. off too. This planking doesn' thave teh cushion effect but it kept cost down. I can always find some carpet squares to put down in the aisle or use the interlocking rubber mats I have.
Next question. This time around I want to use shelf brackets to hold the upper level which will be 2 feet wide. Brackets with can support a moderate amount of weight and be screwed into the studs. I might use some long threaded metal rods to add support to the front edge of the upper level as well. Is there a way to spread out the pressure on the drywall of the shelf brackets to not marr it too much as well
riogrande5761Finally getting started.
Looking good! The room looks great. I like the floor, nice and easy to find dropped parts.
I used vinyl planks flooring, with a built-in rubber backing, Kinda pricey, but you can almost feel the cushion effect, much better than standing on bare concrete.
Jim, looks very clean and again I love your space the wife and you created. Have fun.
Tom
tloc52 Jim, I have 4 legs on my layout with everything else cantilevered off the wall. I must have read Rob's comments before as those legs are 6" in. In 4 years no one has ever kicked them. Are you starting the layout in your great space? TomO
Jim, I have 4 legs on my layout with everything else cantilevered off the wall. I must have read Rob's comments before as those legs are 6" in. In 4 years no one has ever kicked them. Are you starting the layout in your great space?
TomO
Finally getting started. Wife and I finished almost all of the baseboard during November. Got things going by putting up two 2x8 foot sections reused from the old layout and added on another section, 1.5x8 foot built today
I wasn't necessarily going for cheapest, however, I don't have an unlimited budget for good quality plywood. It is definitely an issue of planning the cuts - assuming all the same size, I can only get 9 frames out of a sheet (but that same sheet ALSO yields at least 2 of the long strips that hold the frames together). SO 12 feet of frames plus 8 feet of additional parts. That was just drawing the frames and slapping them in a 4x8 space with only a couple of minutes spent trying to optimize things. I might be able to do better, especially on one wall that will only have 12" wide benchwork - probably fit 12 frames on a sheet there.
Not that the rest is all scrap - I'm pretty much goign for all plywood construction here, so I will need risers and subroadbed. About the only thing not practical to make from plywood will be cleats for the risers. Oh, and I will have a helix, so I need spacers for the levels of the helix - gradually longer ones for the first level, all uniform size for the middle levels.
Nothing's firm, yet. There is much to think about. Biggest one being the upper level over the main yard. There is no reason to make it as wide as the yard, in fact there's every reason to keep the upper deck trackwork a simple as possible over the yard area to not cause human bottlenecks with too many people trying to work in the same space. But if the upper deck holds the lighting for the lower, then there will not be enough light on the yard below.
Angle braces under the bottom are a good alternative to vertical legs - and should work well since I will now have real walls anchored top and bottom, instead of the old barely attached to the block 2x3 walls that were there - most of the 2x3s more or less fell right off, that's how poorly built this was.
rrinker...The appeal of the C being the two layotu decks is no legs, maximizing storage underneath....
I dunno, Randy, the cost of the support structure (legs) would likely be considerably less than the cost of the plywood for the "C"s, as you'd not likely get too many out of a sheet of plywood.
When I added the partial second level to my layout, I used welded 1.5"x1" angle iron brackets to support the upper deck. In the photo below, there's one at about the mid-point of the aisle to the right, a compound bracket (two horizontal members at 90º to each wall) at the corner in the foreground, and three along the wall to the left...
There are also three similar backets along the opposite wall (to the left in the photo below)....
The portion at the end of the aisle is about 9' wide and around 38" in depth, and is self-supporting, as it's screwed to the wall studs on all three sides. It easily supports my full weight, as I learned when it was time to paint the rails, as the curve located there is rather close to the wall.
This photo shows the one bracket referred to in the first photo, and also the one at the corner, in the distance...
Here's a closer view of the corner bracket, which extends down about 2' behind the bulge in the backdrop - all brackets are lag-bolted to the wall studs...
Here are the brackets along the second aisle...
When I was adding the upper level, I built the open grid framework in manageable sections, mostly round 8' long. The front and end members of each are 1"x4"s, while the back and intermediate crossmembers are 1"x2", the latter screwed to the wall studs. Once the welded brackets had been installed, it was easy to lift the sections of open grid into place...
...and, before the plywood deck was added, easy to install the lightweight fluorescent light fixtures for the lower level. If you're using LED strips, they'll be even easier to install...
I used 5/8" t&g plywood for the upper deck, as the tongue and groove feature allowed left-over pieces to be joined together tightly, eliminating chances of scenic material (ground cover, basllast, and diluted glue) oozing through gaps onto the mostly finished areas below.
Wayne
rrinkerBrackets out the top like you mention are fine - if you are indeed building a mountain railroad and just fill in that space with mountain terrain anyway. But it still means you are losing that space for track or structures.
You don't necessarily lose space for track and structures. You can use a structure to hide the support or you can put structures and/or track at an elevation above the support. I also don't consider scenery to be wasted space. I only had one of these every 48" so it wasn't a big deal to hide them. The only loss is the ability to have a track at zero elevation close to the upper deck backdrop (unless you use a tunnel under the support).
0 is lost on the top deck, you can go right to the wall. I had thought of going the other way - using the C for the upper deck and upper deck valance, and a more standard L girder for the lower level, because the loss of a couple inches at the back where no one can see anyway on the upper deck is no big deal. Most of the track for the upper deck would be closer to the front edge anyway. And it could probably go thinner, since the upper 2 levels are only a single level of railroad and then a 'hat' for the lights for the upper level, instead of two levels of layout with track, scenery, etc. The appeal of the C being the two layotu decks is no legs, maximizing storage underneath. But an L girder can span any of my wall lengths with at most 2 legs needed, so it's not that big a deal.
With the C frames, there's no need to cut and fit the backdrop around any sort of angles that might be used to brace the deck above. Even just using those metal 90 degreen brackets, which would be PLENTY for just the lighting valance, means the backdrop can't just sit against the wall and would need to be notched at every bracket. Brackets out the top like you mention are fine - if you are indeed building a mountain railroad and just fill in that space with mountain terrain anyway. But it still means you are losing that space for track or structures.
One thing I do NOT want is any sort of brackets supporting the second deck so that I have to fiddle with the backdrop of the first desk. So my ideal may be to go the opposite way and use a more standard method for the lower deck, and use the C frames for the upper deck and top lighting valance. Also seems liek that could make it easy to put the upper deck in palce after the lower is built. Downside would be poor lighting of the lower level until the second deck gets put in place since it will have the lighting for the lower, but I won't be ducking between decks and bashing my head. Because I would be setting in place sections made up away from the layout, it wouldn't create a mess on the lower deck to install the upper in this fashion. Unless I dropped a section.
rrinkerOnly downside I see is the time needed to cut all those C pieces out of sheets of plywood.
Another downside for those of us with limited space is wasting 2" of real estate between the wall and backdrop which is now on the face of the "C". It may not sound like much at only 2", but if you have a donut in a 10 x 12 room it adds up to 7.3 square feet - for each deck!
On my last double-deck layout I used a basic grid attached to the wall and included diagonal braces on every 3rd joist (spaced on 16" centers). The lower level diagonals were under the grid as you would expect, but on the upper level they were above the grid - usually attached to the joist 1/3 to 1/2 of the way out from the wall. Having a mountain layout with scenery sloping up to the backdrop made them easy to hide. A few were in flat areas and hid by a structure or a clump of trees.
This was faster/easier to make, stronger, and wasted no space compared to the "C" brackets.
carl425If you will work and operate exclusively standing, 3" is probably enough. Think of the toe space you have at the bottom of your kitchen counters.
Mike
A while ago someone mentioned French cleats - I know because I responded. More recently, I came across a YouTube video that the benchwork was built pretty much exactly like this:
http://smallmr.com/wordpress/modular-design-for-a-shelf-layout/
I am considering this now - the C section gives me my lower and upper deck. The upper valance won;t need to support much, just some LED light strips, so that can easily be screwed to the wall. No legs, not a one. The only place I think I might needs a few legs will be along the yard section, which will be a bit wide to be held by just the french cleat and some screws in the wall. Not all the force is borne by the french cleat, the lower strip will also have screws driven into the studs.
Only downside I see is the time needed to cut all those C pieces out of sheets of plywood. Especially if there is one every 16" OC. The depth can vary though, to make nice flowing benchwork.
Most of my layouts have been built with a single leg in the center of the span supporting the weight of the layout. The layout being fastened to the wall was just for support and did not bear the load.
.
This gave an inset of 12-14 inches, and very good support.
My next layout will be built with industrial steel legs and only have an inset ot 2 inches or so, but easy access to electrical outlets is more important.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Mine are attached to the L-Girders, so there is no specific set-back. Since the L-Girders are inset from the edge of the layout, the legs are simply as deep behind the edge as the L-Girder is at that particular location.
By the way, not to be persnickety or anything, but an isle is an island, like the Isle of Mann in the UK. An aisle is a walkway, like the aisles in a grocery store.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton