Securing track on styrofoam

[TheK4Kid]

When I first made the basic tables for my HO layout, I took into consideration, what if I move someday ( layout is in my basement).

A friend helped me and we made  three 6x8 tables built like a bed lattice.

Then bolted them together.

We then cut 4x8x2 inch thick sheets of extruded foam from Menards and custom fit them into the 6x8 foot lattices after we had put legs under the entire set of three lattices.

Legs are bolted on.

In the event I ever move to a new home, I can simply unbolt the three tables, take the legs off, turn them on their side and they will easily go up the basement staircase.

Using the foam keeps them light enough to be handled by two guys if they need to be moved.

Some guys told me I would get a "drum board" sound effect from the foam.

This was easily handled, a number of rolls of fiberglass insulation was tacked in place underneath after all the wiring was finished.

The insulation can be easily taken down to make any changes.

 

[jjdamnit]

Hello All,

To adhere Woodland Senics foam roadbed to the blue foam base I use General Electric (GE) Clear Silicone I or II caulk.

The difference between the two formulae is curing time. The Clear II is "Rain Ready" in 30-minutes.

I use a 1-1/2-inch plastic putty knife to get an even thin coat of caulk on the roadbed before positioning it.

One advantage of using silicone caulk is it cleans up with water.

A disadvantage is some people don't like the odor of curing silicone caulk so for them this can be a "deal-breaker".

I too use "T" pins to hold the roadbed in place and allow it to cure for 24-hours.

Then I use #19 x 5/8-inch wire brads to hold the track in place while ballasting using the method outlined in this post...http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/258968.aspx

If I do need to reposition the roadbed, it peels up easily and, using a rubbing motion, the caulk balls up and actually cleans the blue foam. 

If the track is ballasted I re-wet the ballast, pull up the track and then pull up the roadbed.

This method works for me. I have not tried it with cork roadbed and/or Homosote®.

I suspect because of the porousness of cork and or Homosote® the silicone caulk might soak in and cause damage when attempting to reposition. 

Hope this helps.

[dstarr]

gthomson

Hoping for some advice. I have a small layout with an elevated portion and I want to build around it. I plan to use styrofoam to build up the elevation and the reason for this choice is I would like it to be portable to take to train shows and the weight of wood would hinder this.

What's the best method to secure the track to the foam? Do I still need a cork bed for the track? I am using flex track around the curves with an aggressive radius (trolley run) so really needs to be secured otherwise it returns to original shape.

Thoughts or suggestions? I am hoping for a resolution not too permanent in case I change my mind a few years down the road and want to re-use the track.

thanks in advance

 

First off, you want to be using insulation foamboard, either the pink or the blue.  It is much stronger and does not crumble.  Styrofoam is white, crumbly, and weak.  It comes as packing material on a lot of products.  The foamboard comes in 1 inch and 2 inch sheets and can be carved with a steak knife to get some up and down profile in your ground.  Screws, track nails,  and other fasteners won't hold in foamboard. 

   Acrylic caulking compound, Phenoseal is one good brand name, that will stick to the plastic ties and to the foamboard.  You get an adequate working time and it dries overnight. The caulk will also stick down any kind of roadbed, cork, wood, whatever.  And it will stick the track to the top of the roadbed. 

   I like the looks of roadbed, it simulate the foot or so of crushed rock the prototype people lay their ties in.  The crushed rock holds the ties in place, against the thrusts of the train wheels, and it lets rainwater drain away and prevents rotting of the wooded ties.  The cork roadbed is about the right size and looks fine after ballasting.  But, the cork will not hold track nails so you have to glue your track down with the caulk.  You need to be really careful to avoid kinks, and overly tight curves, and to get some easements properly in place.  If make a mistake, fixing it can be a pain.  I'm told you can use a sharp putty knife to get under the track and pry it up.  I never tried that, and I suspect it is tedious.  

   I used a bandsaw to make my own wooden roadbed from white pine boards.  I first resawed 3/4 inch boards into three 1/4 inch boards.  Then I sketched the straights and the curves and the turnout roadbed pieces and cut them to shape with the bandsaw.  Then I got the 45 degree edge on the wooden roadbed using a shop made router table.  The road bed got stuck down on the foamboard with caulk and the track was nailed to the wooden roadbed.  In a couple of places I needed to realign the track, and that was easily accomplished.  Pull the track nails. realign, and renail it in place.

  And, to give me something to secure all the undertable stuff, Tortoises and wire guides, and power busses, and stuff, I put 1/2 inch plywood sheets under the foamboard to take the mounting screws.  You could use 1/4 inch so long as you use sheet metal screws, the kind that have threads going all the way up the shaft to the screwhead.  

[gthomson]

Yikes, I didn't think there were this many options or opinions on this. I'm a little confused now and now really want to think more about the choice I make. I guess the foam option made sense to because it would be easier to lay down, or tear up if I felt like changing things and not add as much weight to the layout for transport. Great to hear so many of your experiences and techniques.

[Aralai]

I alos use DAP Latex Caulk - thin layer is all that is needed. I use foam roadbed first put down on the blue or pink foam with latex caulk, then track with a very thin layer of caulk on the roadbed. I use round toothpicks to pin the track and roadbed until it dries. Works great.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

mbinsewi

 

 

John-NYBW

I would use cork or foam roadbed and secure it with a foam compatible adhesive such as Liquid Nails Foamboard. I recently discovered Loctite Powergrab which bonds almost immediately. I haven't tried it on foamboard but I bet it would be compatible. 

 

 

The only problem with using such super adhesive is when you want to change things. If you don't ever feel the need to change some track around, it's fine.

That's why some us use the caulk, in a thin layer. It comes up easily with a putty knive type tool, and the track cleans off easy.

The blue and the pink rigid insulation board is extruded polystyrene and the white "bead board" is expanded polystyrene beads.

The extruded is much easier to work with.

Mike.

 

As stated earlier, I don't use foam or cork, and I use a strong adhesive that does not generally allow removal, but I would never use Locktite Powergrab for this application.

It is too thick, too sticky, too messy. I know all about it, we use it when needed in the construction work I do every day.

But adhesive caulk, like Phenoseal or PolySeamSeal is plenty strong enough, compatible with the materials in question, takes a quick enough tack (much quicker that regular AlexPlus painters caulk, which again is not an adhesive) and has just the right open time for the task of positioning track.

As for all this changing track around, or reusing track, I just don't get it. Once I ballast track, I am not investing the time to reuse it. 

I am a planner by occupation, I design houses and/or their renovations as part of my business. I also have various engineering skills, structural design, electrical/electronics design, HVAC design, plumbing system design, hifi speaker design, and previous experiance designing layouts for others as well as for myself.

By the time I get to laying track, I know right where it needs to go.........

Sheldon

[mbinsewi]

John-NYBW

I would use cork or foam roadbed and secure it with a foam compatible adhesive such as Liquid Nails Foamboard. I recently discovered Loctite Powergrab which bonds almost immediately. I haven't tried it on foamboard but I bet it would be compatible. 

The only problem with using such super adhesive is when you want to change things. If you don't ever feel the need to change some track around, it's fine.

That's why some us use the caulk, in a thin layer. It comes up easily with a putty knive type tool, and the track cleans off easy.

The blue and the pink rigid insulation board is extruded polystyrene and the white "bead board" is expanded polystyrene beads.

The extruded is much easier to work with.

Mike.

[MidlandMike]

John-NYBW

I would use cork or foam roadbed and secure it with a foam compatible adhesive ...

This is very important.  The wrong adhesive could start melting the foam and produce toxic fumes.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/215478/2368655.aspx

 

[MisterBeasley]

To the OP:

We are talking about pink or blue insulation foam here, right?

You don't want the white packing foam that comes inside shipping boxes with packages you might get.

 

 

[John-NYBW]

I would use cork or foam roadbed and secure it with a foam compatible adhesive such as Liquid Nails Foamboard. I recently discovered Loctite Powergrab which bonds almost immediately. I haven't tried it on foamboard but I bet it would be compatible. 

[York1]

riogrande5761

I stick with old school track on plywood with cork or sheet homasote using track nails or MicroEngineering spikes. 

I understand what you're saying.

I just started my first layout last year.  I am in N Scale.

I tried the plywood, cork, and track nails.  But my old hands and old eyes made nailing N Scale flex track difficult.  I actually ruined some track trying.

I finally gave up and went with caulk.  I found that if I used very little caulk, I could remove and reposition the track multiple times, even after it cured, with no damage to the track.

I also used foam over the plywood for ease of building up (or down) landscape.

Just my method, and not saying anyone else should do what I do.

[riogrande5761]

York1

I did need to change some track after the caulk cured.  I was able to get the track off, but I did damage some track, also.

 

The above is one big reason I prefer not to follow this trendy practice of using sheet foam and adhesives.  On my last layout I had to remove track multiple times for different reasons including temp removal of a couple benchwork sections due to water issues in the basement.

I stick with old school track on plywood with cork or sheet homasote using track nails or MicroEngineering spikes.  Track naiks can be removed after ballasting and of course there is no wait time for adhesives to set.

If you need to remove/ revise track before ballasting, simply remove nails or spiked with needle nose.

[SPSOT fan]

When ever I’ve laided flex track and switches, I’ve just used regular wood glue, spread out using a piece of paper. I then hold the track down with pins (or thumb tacks, though you may find those a little short...). In my experience this can get things to stay in place plent well.

For road bed I’ve used the woodland scenic stuff, because that’s been what I’ve had, but most people seem to prefer the cork. I’ve also used homasote, which was carved on the sides to get the proper balast profile. I didn’t actually do that part of the process so I’ve got no idea how exactly it was carved.

You could use just use the foam, and shape it to get the right profile, but foam is kind of bad at dampening sound, and if your bringing the layout to a show, I’ll bet you won’t have you trains moving at low, scale speeds (for some reason it seems like all trains show trains run at 100 scale mph!), so sound deadening will be essential!

Good luck with your project!

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

hon30critter

 

 

gthomson

I am hoping for a resolution not too permanent in case I change my mind a few years down the road and want to re-use the track.

 

 

Hi gthomson,

I think you might be working at cross purposes if you want the track to stay in place when the layout is being transported and yet make it easy to remove down the road.

Our club's portable layout uses cork on foam. Even with the track fully ballasted the cork and/or the track tends to come loose over time. The problems usually occur where the modules meet but the track has popped loose in other areas too.

Part of our problem is that we haul the layout in a small trailer and the trailer's suspension doesn't offer a lot of cushioning. The result is that the layout gets banged around pretty hard on rough roads. If you are going to transport your layout inside a regular vehicle then it won't suffer as much abuse.

The other thing that happens to us is that the layout is sensitive to excess heat and humidity. At a show we can run for 1 1/2 days without any problems but if the weather is hot and humid, by the middle of the Sunday afternoon, nothing will stay on the tracks. I don't think that has anything to do with the foam itself. I suspect the wood frames around each of the modules are acting up and throwing off the alignment between the modules.

Eventually we will do the layout over and we will use 1/8" luan plywood glued on the top and bottom of the foam. We will likely use small screws to secure the track before ballasting, and we will use furniture grade 1/2" plywood for the frames.

Dave

 

I have to say, I read these threads about using foam and can never quite get my head around the idea.

None of my model railroad friends around here lay track on foam, some do use it for a scenery base. I've never done it, don't think I would ever consider it.

I'm not saying it does not work, or that it's a bad idea. I just am not comfortable with the idea of using something that "soft".

Dave's comments confirm my thoughts.

I'm about to start a new layout, one which will have deep scenery that will require leaning/partial climbing on the benchwork/layout from time to time, just like I have done with past layouts.

The layout will also be built in modules, though I doubt I will ever have to move it.

For many decades now my prefered way to lay track is plywood sub base often 3/4", sheet homasote for yards, etc, and homasote roadbed like Homabed/Cascade for mainlines.

https://cascaderailsupply.com/pages/frontpage

Track is attached with adheasive caulk, like Phenoseal or PolySeamSeal, not simple painters caulk like AlexPlus. AlexPlus is not glue, it is gap filler.......

I do not glue down turnouts, they are held by the adjacent tracks and just two or three track nails.

In my experiance, firmly mounted track is more quiet than track layed on soft materials.

I work in construction, well a specialized field in construction, I restore historic homes. We don't use rigid foam there either..........

My early layouts, back in the late 60's and 70's, were TruScale milled wooden roadbed and /or hand laid track.

OK, just my thoughts, good luck folks,

Sheldon 

 

[hon30critter]

gthomson

I am hoping for a resolution not too permanent in case I change my mind a few years down the road and want to re-use the track.

Hi gthomson,

I think you might be working at cross purposes if you want the track to stay in place when the layout is being transported and yet make it easy to remove down the road.

Our club's portable layout uses cork on foam. Even with the track fully ballasted the cork and/or the track tends to come loose over time. The problems usually occur where the modules meet but the track has popped loose in other areas too.

Part of our problem is that we haul the layout in a small trailer and the trailer's suspension doesn't offer a lot of cushioning. The result is that the layout gets banged around pretty hard on rough roads. If you are going to transport your layout inside a regular vehicle then it won't suffer as much abuse.

The other thing that happens to us is that the layout is sensitive to excess heat and humidity. At a show we can run for 1 1/2 days without any problems but if the weather is hot and humid, by the middle of the Sunday afternoon, nothing will stay on the tracks. I don't think that has anything to do with the foam itself. I suspect the wood frames around each of the modules are acting up and throwing off the alignment between the modules.

Eventually we will do the layout over and we will use 1/8" luan plywood glued on the top and bottom of the foam. We will likely use small screws to secure the track before ballasting, and we will use furniture grade 1/2" plywood for the frames.

Dave

[cowman]

I used inexpensive latex caulk for foam to foam, cork to foam and track to cork.  Has held up well.  Spread very thin, have had no problem when I needed to take up track.

I used sectional track, did use a little weight to hold down for the track work, but not the cork to foam.  Think with flex track I'd pin it, as above, and weight it down overnight.  For weight I have seen 12 oz cans (filled with your choice of beverage), paint cans or a board with some additional weight for longer, straight sections.

I like the appearance of cork, but that's up to you.

Have fun,

Richard

[rrebell]

Use the cork, it will make smother roadbed and can be sanded for transitions on top or suspeded for the bottom.

[UNCLEBUTCH]

 Caulk, see above,  All you need is a light smear, if you can see it between the ties, you used too mutch.

To hold track in place I use paper clips, cut in half= 2 Ushaped pins, use over the ties outside the rail. Some of mine are still there even after ballesting.

 I no longer use road bed,I move my track around too mutch. I don't miss the profile

Tpins can be found everywhere,Walmart, drug stores, ect.

[MisterBeasley]

I get a box of ordinary paper clips and unbend them into a U shape.  These fit well over HO track ties and are long enough to firmly hold track through foam roadbed into pink foam until whatever adhesive you use sets up.

[BigDaddy]

Foam pins are more widely know as T-pins and should be available at your local craft store that issues 30% coupons.  I use them to temporarily hold things like cork or track while caulk sets up.

[davidmurray]

gthomson

read about and saw in the store, these foam pins from Scenic Woodlands but they have these massive heads on them and I couldn't see how they could be used on the track.

A believe that foam pins are intended to hold track in place until the caulking dries, then remove and reuse.

Dave

 

[gthomson]

BigDaddy

His videos also show him carving foam, with an electric chainsaw, in his basement. His tolerance for foam dust is different than mine.

LOL that made me laugh and have to agree. The worst part about working with foam.

Looks like caulking it is then gents. I read about and saw in the store, these foam pins from Scenic Woodlands but they have these massive heads on them and I couldn't see how they could be used on the track. 

Thanks for responding all.

[kasskaboose]

I use Micro Engineering (ME) cork to give the foam layout a "cleaner" and more realistic look.  I secure it with Elmer's glue since cheap and easy to remove.  Don't ask how I know!

[BigDaddy]

I use cork because I have it. Ken Patterson does not.  He carves drainage ditches on the side of this tracks. His videos also show him carving foam, with an electric chainsaw, in his basement.  His tolerance for foam dust is different than mine. 

I use Dap 230, which I'm pretty sure I got from one of Cody's videos.

[Phoebe Vet]

tstage

DAP Alex Plus Acrylic Latex Caulk

Inexpensive, holds very well, stays flexible but can be pried up with a putty knife and steady pressure.  Working time 30-45 min.  Fully cured in 24 hrs.  Can be found at any home improvement store or hardware.

Tom

 Another user of DAP Alex plus.  Apply it VERY thin... so thin it is nearly transparent.  It removes easily with a putty knife.

 

[York1]

My layout is on extruded foam that I used to make hills and valleys.  To make the roadbed more even than my carelessly carved foam, I laid down cork roadbed and attached it using caulk.  I then attached the track to the cork using caulk.

I have not had any issues with this.  I did need to change some track after the caulk cured.  I was able to get the track off, but I did damage some track, also.

[mbinsewi]

gthomson

I am hoping for a resolution not too permanent in case I change my mind a few years down the road and want to re-use the track.

I used the caulk that Tom linked to.  I don't think you need the cork road bed, other than the fact that it gives a good road bed profile, you can carve the road bed profile in the foam.

Removing the track is easy with a putty knive type tool.  I used a margin trowel,  a tool I used alot in my cement finisher days.

 

Mike.

[tstage]

DAP Alex Plus Acrylic Latex Caulk

Inexpensive, holds very well, stays flexible but can be pried up with a putty knife and steady pressure.  Working time 30-45 min.  Fully cured in 24 hrs.  Can be found at any home improvement store or hardware.

Tom

[gthomson]

Hoping for some advice. I have a small layout with an elevated portion and I want to build around it. I plan to use styrofoam to build up the elevation and the reason for this choice is I would like it to be portable to take to train shows and the weight of wood would hinder this.

What's the best method to secure the track to the foam? Do I still need a cork bed for the track? I am using flex track around the curves with an aggressive radius (trolley run) so really needs to be secured otherwise it returns to original shape.

Thoughts or suggestions? I am hoping for a resolution not too permanent in case I change my mind a few years down the road and want to re-use the track.

thanks in advance