Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

no seams in brick styrene (abs)

1406 views
20 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
no seams in brick styrene (abs)
Posted by mrrdad on Sunday, July 07, 2019 8:47 PM

Hello all,

I am getting ready to start my scratch built model of Chicago's Grand Central Station. It is a all brick building. It will be a very large model and time consuming model. I have debated if I want to model the entire building. I could place it on my layout where not all sides are exposed. It would save some time and costs of materials.

If my memory serves me correct at the moment, the clock tower stood at 214 feet tall. That is just over 29" tall in HO scale. My biggest concern is that brick sheets from JTT or plastruct only comes in roughly 7" tall sheet in the direction I need the bricks to run. I'm not sure I can get the sections glued together to achieve the height I need.

Anyone have any experience with this?

 

Ed

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    May, 2010
  • 5,463 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, July 07, 2019 9:42 PM

You shouldn't have any problems with this, from what I see there is a mortar joint at the top and bottom of each sheet.  The worst thing you might have to do is carefully cut off the mortar joint, on one end or the other.

Just take your time, and align the sheets the way you need them and do a test fit, paying attention to the mortoar joints.

If I was doing this, I would use a sub structure to glue the panels to.  I would probably use cardboard, as I have in the past.

Mike.

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 9,874 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, July 07, 2019 9:52 PM

Hi Ed,

The N Scale Architect sells HO scale brick sheets that are 11" tall x 14" wide. They have several different patterns.

https://thenarch.com/

The edges of the sheets are not perfect so they might have to be trimmed to get an invisible joint.

Dave

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Sunday, July 07, 2019 9:58 PM

Thanks for your input. That makes me feel a little more confident. I am planning to use .060 thick styrene as the substructure.

 

Ed

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Sunday, July 07, 2019 10:02 PM

Thanks Dave. Those sheets still wouldn't be tall enough, but it would reduce the number of seams down. I will look into using those instead.

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    May, 2010
  • 5,463 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, July 08, 2019 8:24 AM

Another detail to work out is the corners.  Say you have two walls that join at a 90 degree angle, wall A and wall B.  Make sure that a half brick on wall A meets up with a full brick on wall B.

Not sure if you get what I'm trying to describes with out a drawing.

Mike.

  • Member since
    March, 2011
  • 551 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Monday, July 08, 2019 8:46 AM

Would creating a sanding jig be usefull for sanding the edges square for the seams and 45 for the corners?

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Monday, July 08, 2019 9:12 AM

mbinsewi

Another detail to work out is the corners.  Say you have two walls that join at a 90 degree angle, wall A and wall B.  Make sure that a half brick on wall A meets up with a full brick on wall B.

Not sure if you get what I'm trying to describes with out a drawing.

Mike.

 

 

Makes complete sense.

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Monday, July 08, 2019 9:18 AM

NVSRR

Would creating a sanding jig be usefull for sanding the edges square for the seams and 45 for the corners?

 

 

I have some jigs for this purpose already drawn up in cad. I will try to machine them on the bridgeport mill at work this week. One jig is for 90 degree corners (45 degree miters) and the other is for some 45 degree corners (22.5 degree miters) that I need to make.

Ed

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    November, 2015
  • 586 posts
Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Monday, July 08, 2019 7:27 PM

From my experences;

 As stated above, a sturdy core will help a lot, I would use wood or foam. Going up should be simple,all the sheets i used were made to match up. You may have more issues with the cornors, they will most likely need to be 45ed.

 I suggest, cutting outside the line, and sanding to fit. I use sand paper glued to a sheet of glass to keep edges true. Test fit often, I was supprised as to how mutch material can be removed with a few passes.

Don't drive yourself crazy and squeeze the fun out of it, by demanding 100% absolute prefetion. Most opps can't be seen without a magnifier and won't be noticed. I have used caulk, spackling,and putty to fix inperfections along with weathering.

Just thinking outloud,,, Do yo really want a structure 29in high ? On a HO layout it will really stick out,or up. I built a water tower thats about 16in and it looks right.

  • Member since
    June, 2002
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
  • 411 posts
Posted by ctyclsscs on Monday, July 08, 2019 7:51 PM

From the photos I looked at, if I am looking at the right building...thankfully, you won't have a very wide expanse of brick sheet to match up. Most will be pretty thin vertical pieces, which should make it easier to sand and butt them together. And, if you stagger the joints on each piece, they won't be as noticeable. You can also hide some of the joints under the raised brick trim.

Jim

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Monday, July 15, 2019 12:36 AM

If you guys want to see an incredible model of what this station looks like, go to Custom Model Railroads Facebook page. The details are amazing!

https://www.facebook.com/Custom.Model.Railroads/photos/pcb.2426577397365644/2426573210699396/?type=3&theater

 

I have my work cut out for me!

 

Ed

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    May, 2010
  • 5,463 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, July 15, 2019 7:09 AM

mrrdad
If you guys want to see an incredible model of what this station looks like, go to Custom Model Railroads Facebook page. The details are amazing!

WOW! is all I can say.  Yes, you DO have your work cut out for you.

You will have your hands full working out all the ornate brick work on the main tower.  

Mike.

  • Member since
    September, 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 18,114 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 15, 2019 7:28 AM

mrrdad

If you guys want to see an incredible model of what this station looks like, go to Custom Model Railroads Facebook page. The details are amazing!

https://www.facebook.com/Custom.Model.Railroads/photos/pcb.2426577397365644/2426573210699396/?type=3&theater 

I have my work cut out for me! 

Ed 

Ed, is that a custom build for a customer?  I don't see it as a kit on the CMR website.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September, 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 18,114 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 15, 2019 7:37 AM

OK, just looked at their Facebook site. It is a one-of-a-kind custom build. Go on the Facebook site and take a look. There are about a dozen photos from various angles and close-ups. 

We probably don't want to know what it cost the customer.

I had inquired a while back about having CMR modify the towers on their HO scale vertical lift bridge. I have yet to recover from the quote.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Monday, July 15, 2019 9:31 AM

I believe this model is for a fellow named Henry Freeman, if I were to guess. He is the only other person that I know of modeling this railroad.

I think I saw on a post that CMR made that the cost to build it was somewhere in the $20k range!

There is one thing I do have going for me is that I do not have to model all sides of the building. The way I am planning on placing in on my layout, only two side views will need to be modeled. The main focus on the station for me will be the train shed. This eliminates a lot of the detail!

I will be using a lot of cnc equipment to do this as well. A laser and a 3D printer for some of the little detail stuff. I kind of wish I could do more of it by hand, but I don't think I could get very fine details.

 

Ed

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    September, 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 18,114 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 15, 2019 9:50 AM

mrrdad

There is one thing I do have going for me is that I do not have to model all sides of the building. The way I am planning on placing in on my layout, only two side views will need to be modeled. The main focus on the station for me will be the train shed. This eliminates a lot of the detail!

I will be using a lot of cnc equipment to do this as well. A laser and a 3D printer for some of the little detail stuff. I kind of wish I could do more of it by hand, but I don't think I could get very fine details. 

There are three things required to scratchbuild this structure, or to scratch build any intricate structure for that matter. One, you need the right tools. Two, you need the right materials. Three, you need scratchbuilding skills. 

In terms of scratchbuilding skills, this ought not to be one's first attempt at scratchbuilding. Try something a lot simpler first.

The right tools are essential to building a fine detail structure. Easy enough, the right tools can be bought.

It is the third thing that really becomes the main obstacle, and that is finding the right materials, not only the brick work, but also the various shaped windows, doors and archways, not to mention the ornate details.

I have scratchbuilt a few large structures, but this one would cause me to hesitate.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: Clinton, MO, US
  • 3,977 posts
Posted by Medina1128 on Monday, July 15, 2019 10:41 AM

Micromark makes tools for gluing at right angles and one for gluing sections that are joined together in a flat plane. I saw a Youtube video where a guy used small diameter styrene rods, glued into the seams. After the cement had completely set up, he sanded it virtually making the seam invisible.

90° clamp

 Splice clamp

 

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Monday, July 15, 2019 1:04 PM

richhotrain

 

 
mrrdad

There is one thing I do have going for me is that I do not have to model all sides of the building. The way I am planning on placing in on my layout, only two side views will need to be modeled. The main focus on the station for me will be the train shed. This eliminates a lot of the detail!

I will be using a lot of cnc equipment to do this as well. A laser and a 3D printer for some of the little detail stuff. I kind of wish I could do more of it by hand, but I don't think I could get very fine details. 

 

 

There are three things required to scratchbuild this structure, or to scratch build any intricate structure for that matter. One, you need the right tools. Two, you need the right materials. Three, you need scratchbuilding skills. 

 

In terms of scratchbuilding skills, this ought not to be one's first attempt at scratchbuilding. Try something a lot simpler first.

The right tools are essential to building a fine detail structure. Easy enough, the right tools can be bought.

It is the third thing that really becomes the main obstacle, and that is finding the right materials, not only the brick work, but also the various shaped windows, doors and archways, not to mention the ornate details.

I have scratchbuilt a few large structures, but this one would cause me to hesitate.

Rich

 

 

 

Rich,

I agree, this is not a project for the timid. I don't see this as overly complicated. Large, yes. The way to approach this is in sections and layers. I am in  the process of making a 3D CAD assembly model with every layer, section and detail. I'm starting with the clock tower. That will be the hardest part. If I can't fabricate that, the rest don't matter!

 

For the record. CMR did not 3D print this. It is layers of styrene.

Edit...

As far as a lot of the very fine details in the brickwork goes... I might eliminate some of it. The clock tower section will sit in a far back corner on the layout. Probably 4' from the front edge of the facia of the layout. I'm not sure it would be worth it to make an effort to replicate every little detail.

Ed

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Just outside of Leitchfield, Ky
  • 63 posts
Posted by mrrdad on Monday, July 15, 2019 1:30 PM

Medina1128

Micromark makes tools for gluing at right angles and one for gluing sections that are joined together in a flat plane. I saw a Youtube video where a guy used small diameter styrene rods, glued into the seams. After the cement had completely set up, he sanded it virtually making the seam invisible.

90° clamp

 Splice clamp

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

I machined up a few sets of those at work last week. I also made some jigs to bevel the edges at either 45 degrees of 22.5 degrees to join corners together. I'll try and post some pics of those when I get a chance.

 

Ed

Modeling the B&O Chicago Terminal Railroad in the 1950's

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: Clinton, MO, US
  • 3,977 posts
Posted by Medina1128 on Monday, July 22, 2019 12:29 PM

Ed, In re your tools used in scratchbuilding model structures. You mentioned posting pictures of them. Could you send me a message to me directly?

Thanks! Marlon Medina (Medina1128)

 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!