The bright light is fine for construction, but when it comes to painting and decorating, you will want to do that under the same lighting conditions that you will view and operate the layout under.
Unless you make a SUBWAY layout, then all of the other stuff can be painted black... : )
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Tanks!
BroadwayLion mbinsewi I've never seen a unit ethanol trains with the "TankTrain" type connection or configuration. They were long since all retired befor the advent of commercial ethanol plants.
mbinsewi I've never seen a unit ethanol trains with the "TankTrain" type connection or configuration.
They were long since all retired befor the advent of commercial ethanol plants.
They're still out there, just not with the big TANKTRAIN logo on the sides.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4392077
The Candians have a bunch of newer ones in white https://www.railpictures.net/photo/650420/
I guess. It would take a lot of kit bashing to change those cars. Like I said earlier, the length isn't bad, but those ladders and running boards would have be dealt with, along with the connection to the next car.
Mike.
My You Tube
Rats. Guess I will have to add modern tank cars to my roster needs (wants?) as well...
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
mbinsewiI've never seen a unit ethanol trains with the "TankTrain" type connection or configuration.
mbinsewi Bigjim7 . I wonder what the smoke stack does' When you explore how an ethanol plant works, you'll see the corn is "cooked", so I imagine that "smoke stack" is part of the cooking process, although it's probably steam, and not smoke. Mike.
Bigjim7 . I wonder what the smoke stack does'
When you explore how an ethanol plant works, you'll see the corn is "cooked", so I imagine that "smoke stack" is part of the cooking process, although it's probably steam, and not smoke.
The smoke stack comes from the power house. Remember this plant used to burn coal to heat the mash. Now with gas, which in many applications would only require a vent, they still use the same booiler.
Hello All,
dknelson...(and there is a lot of piping, just a maze of pipes) was color coded in bright primary colors.
Growing up in Long Beach, California, there are a lot of petroleum refineries in nearby Wilmington.
Because of the expansiveness of these facilities there were often overhead piping spanning roads.
Some were color coded and some were just labeled with directional arrows, to indicate the flow of the piping, and hazmat numbered placards to indicate the contents.
All of the piping was above ground for maintenance and fire fighting.
It would not be uncommon to have piping running over the tracks in what resembles a signal bridge.
In some areas the roads were actually sunken to allow the passage of larger capacity pipes to travel, unobstructed, over these thoroughfares.
Depending on the level of detail you are seeking this might be an option to ad visual interest over tracks and any roads in the complex.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Bigjim7. I wonder what the smoke stack does'
Another by-product of the ethanol process is CO2 which is compressed to liquid form and hauled in liquid state in tank cars like natural gas.
Here is a closeup of the plant itself
You can see how the fermenting tanks are cut into the building.
Almost alll of the operation is under cover, after all, this is North Dakota
I forgot to add the quote, replying to BNSF's post.
Maybe. The ladders and running boards wouldn't be right, but the length of the car I think would work. They would be something to start with, as a kit bash project.
I've never seen a unit ethanol trains with the "TankTrain" type connection or configuration.
Bigjim7 Do I know what is the proper way to pipe a Ethanol plant. No just more for looks. I am the opposite of a Rivet Counter so that should tell you something.
Do I know what is the proper way to pipe a Ethanol plant. No just more for looks. I am the opposite of a Rivet Counter so that should tell you something.
LINK to SNSR Blog
Lion has suddenly recaptured my interest in modeling an ethonal plant (especially with his reference to the BNSF "mane lion" in his picture). I have a whole bunch of currently useless GATX tanktrain cars. Wonder if those would work prototypically, either as single units or a connected set of cars?
I kind of figured, as what placarding I did catch a glimpse of appeared to be the same as used for gas.
Just think if it wasn't cut, you might see a return of the days of train robbery!
I just did another fly-over of your town, Lion, coutesy of Google Satallite.
That must be the frac sand facility just a little SW. between Hyw 8 and the I-94.
I really like those majestic towers on each side of your front door.
mbinsewiSo, when you see a unit train of ethanol, is it already mixed with the gas?
YES! They couold never affor the booze taxs on all of that stuff.
Lion, and Dave, that is a whole lotta' great info! You could build a switching lay out centered around a big ethanol plant, and have a very busy lay out.
Excellent info. It still amazes me how they have to cut it or else it's corn squeezin's
So, when you see a unit train of ethanol, is it already mixed with the gas?
I can never get a good look at the placarding. I'll have to do a little searching.
I toured an ethanol plant in Nebraska (unfortunately photos inside the plant were forbidden but we could take all we wanted outside) and the thing that struck me at the time was how all the piping (and there is a lot of piping, just a maze of pipes) was color coded in bright primary colors.
There was a long string of trucks waiting to dump their corn -- each lot had to be tested before they were allowed to dump so there was a special receiving area. I do not know if they were testing for moisture content or purity or both. The truck was weighed twice - full then empty.
The dry distiller's grain was shipped out in covered hoppers and perhaps also trucks. The wet distiller's grain was for purely local use and shipped out in trucks. I have to think mostly it was dried.
There are many steps in the process. The corn is ground down in a very early stage. Ethanol plants are considerable users of water. An early stage looked almost like orange paint it was so opaque - not like a thin juice in other words. I think that might have been before initial fermentation. But you would not see this level of detail from the outside. I do think there are two stages of fermentation. The "alcohol" odor at the last stage and strong and somewhat pleasant - and that is why they add gasoline to "denature" it.
Jeff Wilson goes into much detail in his book about Grain.
Dave Nelson
Here is the Red Trail Energy plant in Richardton, ND.
If you google "Richardton, ND" you will get a view of our 'house' right there on the first page.
The BNSF mane lion runs just to the north of the plant, and a little north of that is "Old Higyway 10"
The long white strips that you see is extra corn that didn't fit into the three elevator towers.
Cor arrives by rail and by road. Sometimes we can see twenty or more trucks waiting to go in. They must be weighed (so you need a scale), and there is an automatic snout that will reach deep into the load and extract samples for assay.
As built the plant was to be fired by local lignite coal brought in by truck from a near-by mine. Engineer did not do his sums right, and the lignite coal did not burn properly, so they switched to bituminus coal brought in by rail. You can still see the coal pile half way down the track. It was too much work and labor to use coal this way, and with the price of local gas, they changed to gas firing. We have not seen coal cars in years.
You can see the various fermentation tanks to the west of the processing building. These tanks are partially inside of the building. The valves and pumps and whatever are inside of the building, workers need not go out doors in the dead of winter.
Gasoline is brought into the facility in smalle tank cars than what they ship the ethanol in. The gasoline is used to cut the ethanol from 100% to 85%. At 100% the product would come under the liquer authority and would have to be sold in liter bottles with a tax stamp on it.Corn squeezins' you know.
The big square buiilding holds the driers. The biggest things ever to cross North Dakota roads and that includes all of the oil field business. The driers were put in place and then the building was built around them.
Product that is dried only in the first drier is sold as wet brewers yeast. That is sold locall to farmers. They need special trucks with conveyer beltsd to help unload the trucks. the stuff will not fall out by gravity.
Prouducct that is dried in the second drier as well is sold as dry brewer's yeast, and that seems to be shipped by rail to wherever it is going.
Ethanol is of course the main product shipped, and that loop to the east can hold several hundred cars. It is a two track loop, tank cars on the outer loop and usually grain cars on the inner loop. The track in the middle of the loop is some sort of a car cleaning facility. The tank cars are in 'captive' service and are only used for ethanol, there is no return product, for that would require cleaning the cars at least twice if not more. A large number of cars are owned by a pool of ethanol producers, and so have their name on the cars. They can be sent to any ethanol plant for their next journey. Red Trail has enough track space that they can hold cars until they are needed elsewhere.
They are adding to the end of that loop track, apparently it will loop back on itselfwhich will ad another three to four hundred cars in the loop.
Cars are dropped by an east bound train pushing them back into the plant from the east switch.
Out bound cars are pulled out from the west, but need to be built up into their train and inspected before the road crew comes to fetch them. A car-knocker comes in from Dickinson (25 mi west) to perform the inspections prior to the arrival of the road crew. The road crew still must charge the train and do the brake tests before they can head on out across highway 8. But at least they do not do switching acrossa highway 8, that would be a problem for traffic.
The Ethanol plant owns two locomotives.(Boy! I wish I could go out there and pl;ay with them!
A while back, I ran across a video depicting a professionally-produced HO scale ethanol plant, being exhibited at a farm show, by the ethanol trade association Growth Energy together with farm machinery manufacturer New Holland. G/E VP Kelly Manning had the model produced; he reports that it took about 500 hours, including field research visits to several ethanol plants to ensure authenticity.
Unfortunately, the video doesn't spend quite enough time viewing the model, but you can clearly see the extensive detailing. I've tried to find other presentations of this model on the internet, but without success. The model's present location is unclear. In the video, Kelly Manning indicates an intent to produce additional versions of the model, for display at farm shows, museums, and similar venues. Whether that's happened or not is unclear.
In any event, the video is well-worth watching, several times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IEjnp15ne0#action=share
// Michael
mbinsewiWhat does all of the things you mention in your post have to do with the OP' ethanol plant?
Bigjim7...I assume Covered Hoppers can be used to bring Corn into the plant and Tanker cars which are my favorite cars can be used to export the Ethanol and bring chemicals into the plant' I see where they use Hydrozene to help get the water out of the Ethanol. Any tips much appreciated. Thanks
I believed that the OP was asking about different types of rolling stock, not the actual construction of the facility.
All of the types of rolling stock I listed could be involved with the maintenance and production of any industry.
Ethanol production included.
I noted my pike as an example of the possibilities.
JJ, I must be missing something. What does all of the things you mention in your post have to do with the OP' ethanol plant?
Just wondering....