Turnout Control in Staging Yard

[RR_Mel]

Yes, the servo arm can be controlled to a micro position, the exact same throw for each activation.

 

Where I’m kinda hung up is the correct position.  The servo will draw extra current if it has to use pressure against the moving rail.  I have mine working without any pressure, just touching the point rail to the outside rail.  It works fine but I’m from the old world and I don’t have the necessary warm and fuzzy feeling without pressure.

 

Before I gave up working on my project I increased the throw arm rod diameter to .03” so that the moving rails don’t move with rail traffic and that seems to take care of the pressure problem (current) but doesn’t help my warm and fuzzes.  When I feel like I can get back into it I’ll do a post on my project.  I have a lot of dinking around to do before I try installing a servo turnout.  I want to have a warm and fuzzy feeling before I start ripping out turnouts and drilling 1½” holes all over the place.

 

I’m looking forward to installing the servo/turnouts because my 30 year old Atlas #65 are getting tired and a “from the top replacement” really sounds good for my bummer knees.

 

I might add that the SG90 servo has tremendous torque even at very low travel speed which makes for a super slow moving rail movement without any loss of torque, very realistic looking.

 

 

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[maxman]

RR_Mel

Here is a link that might help. http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Musings/files/150419_Track_Turnouts_and_Servos.php

Thank you.  A quick read seems to indicate that the servo is not a stall-motor design.  I'm assuming that the arduino gets programed to move the servo a certain distance.  It would seem to me that a very precise adjustment would be required to get the servo to move just the right amount to hold the points against the stock rail, not too much and not too little.

I wonder if there is a way to come up with a design similar to the sprung Caboose Industries item.

[RR_Mel]

The wiring is pretty simple, +5 volt servo power, servo ground and the control wire from the Arduino.  I’m using a servo demo sketch from the Arduino library.  This is how I will be installing the servos under the turnouts.  I plan to mount the servos to the bottom of the turnouts get them working perfect then cut a hole in my layout and drop them in from the top thus no crawling under protecting my 81 year old knees.

 

 

I’m still in the experimental stage.  I gave it up on all of my Arduino stuff in early February for my eye surgery.  I had one eye done in February and the other one last week and I haven’t got back in to much model railroading yet. 

 

It’s easy to drive the servos and tweak the travel distance.  Once you have one working servo program it’s a simple copy and paste for all of the turnouts only changing the servo control pin address.

 

EDIT:

 

Here is a link that might help.

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Musings/files/150419_Track_Turnouts_and_Servos.php

 

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[maxman]

RR_Mel

Go with an Arduino controller and use the SG90 servos. A single Arduino MEGA (under $10) will control 20 turnouts using SG90 Servos at $1.50 each.

Is there a link to where I can see how these are wired (control circuit)?

 

Thanks

[MisterBeasley]

While DCC turnout control is nice to have available, it is not for everyone.  If you do go that route, make sure your stationary decoders will support operation from toggles as well.

[doctorwayne]

riogrande5761

...Personally I installed Caboose Industries ground throws on my last layout and find them somewhat awkward to operate. I have to get a finger nail or edge of my finger under it so I can lift he the lever and flip it over....

I can't say if it will work for all Caboose Industries ground throws, but for the sprung versions, simply place your finger atop the main part of the mechanism, then press down in the direction opposite of where the handle lies - the gear-like thingy beneath your finger will rotate slightly, lifting the handle from its locked position, making it easy to grasp.

Wayne

[riogrande5761]

cuyama

 

riogrande5761

If you are in code 83 

PECO now offers Code 83, still with the spring.

For some years now yes, Peco has offered code 83.  What, maybe 15+ years?

I am in both code 100 (for staging) and code 83 (outside of staging)

Turnout in the red packaging to the left below.

I didn't list the Peco code 83 because the context of my post was somewhat cost related.  Because of cost, my guess is the more expensive turnouts would be reserved for the "visible" or above-staging part of the layout.  Peco code 83 turnouts go for about 7 dollars more than it's code 100 counterpart.

[Atchee]

There is a learning curve to be sure, but a lot of groundwork is already done to do things like using Arduinos and  servos to operate turnouts.  You don't have to be a computer guru to learn how to use them  Servos are cheap, cheap enough to buy by the case or flat.  And they lend themselves to other things like crossing gates, semaphores, and opening and closing doors, windows, and curtains.

There are Arduino like devices that are cheap enough it sometimes doesn't make sense to try and fill one up to do a bunch of stuff but to have them do things, maybe different things, in a small surrounding area and keep home run wireing to a minimum.

Anyway, a servo can be installed and operated with a basic program to operate a turnout, and rather than fussing with adjusting linkages and moving the switch motor (twin coil, tortise, whatever), you can adjust the code to move the amount of throw one way or the other, and how fast it moves.

Once you get the hang of using an Arduino for turnout operation it is a pretty short step to learning to do other things with them.  A lot of folks here can help and there is a wealth of info on You-Tube, among other places.

[davidmurray]

I have a staging yard that requires a duck under to gain access.

I used peco turnouts with the single ended yard being fed from the throat.

This means only one track is live at a time.

I used peco under table throws, a capacitor discharge circuit, and a diode matrix.

Reasonabley easy for visiting engineers to use.

Pricier than some options, durabile and robust.

Dave

 

[cuyama]

riogrande5761

If you are in code 83

PECO now offers Code 83, still with the spring.

[carl425]

If simple and cheap are driving the decision and appearance is not an issue, it's a simple matter to make a safety pin type device out of music wire.  Put one end in the throwbar, a screw through the loop in the bend, then two track nails to hold the "handle" end in each direction so it puts the desired tension on the points.

I've used this device as a temporary solution while the turnout waits it's turn to be automated.  I can make one of these in just a couple minutes, and if you're a packrat like the rest of us, it's probably free.

[riogrande5761]

If your staging area is readily accessible, Caboose Industries sprung ground throws are easy to install, work reliably, and are reasonably priced, especially in comparison to powered options

kasskaboose

I too have a similar yard and plan to use Caboose Industries ground throws.  Dr. Wayne has a sound approach. 

"Sound approach" but there are other good, even better options.

Personally I installed Caboose Industries ground throws on my last layout and find them somewhat awkward to operate.  I have to get a finger nail or edge of my finger under it so I can lift he the lever and flip it over.  Plus it's a separate item you have to buy and install.  Not a huge deal but it all adds up on a layout.

Now if cost is a concern and you haven't already bought turnouts, you could completely removed grown throws from the equation and buy Peco turnouts for your staging yard.

Say you go the cheapest route and use Atlas turnouts; they will set you back about $14 discount price  Add on a Caboose Industry Ground throw, nearly $3.  Total cost about $17.

If you shop around, you can find Peco Code 100 large turnouts in the $18-19 range so for only a couple bucks more you have a better quality, smoother operating turnout without the pothole effect as cars travel through, AND a built in finger flick point throw.  No extra item to buy and install. Snicker snack!

If you are in code 83, or for some reason don't like Peco, you can buy MicroEngineering turnouts for $19 each and they also have the finger flick point throw built in.

So for manual KIS staging yards (no wiring or expensive powered switch machines, no installation, no control panel), there are other manual options that Keep It Simple and cost difference is very little.

Choose your poison.  Choose wisely.

[mlehman]

My staging is operated by Tortoise switch machines, but parts of the leads are located where hand throws would be a problem as it's in another room from most of the layout. If you have ready access, then handthrows work well.

Keep in mind you don't need a control panel if you use the Macro controls provided with NCE or whatever is similar with other DCC systems. With Macro commands, you enter all the turnouts aligned to enter the track you need, then it's just a matter of calling them up and the entire route is aligned.

If you need simultaneous access to different tracks at the opposite ends, you can set up different Macro commands that do just one end. I have 7 staging tracks. For through staging to align both ends, they are Macros 1 to 7. For access to just one end it's Macros 11 to 17. For the opposite end only, it's Macros 21 to 27.

Depending on how you envision your controls, this eliminates the need for a control panel, along with the time and material investments you make building it. What's saved there can make going with Tortoises more cost effective than they initially may seem.

[kasskaboose]

I too have a similar yard and plan to use Caboose Industries ground throws.  Dr. Wayne has a sound approach.  Why can't I see is photos is another issue.

[doctorwayne]

If your staging area is readily accessible, Caboose Industries sprung ground throws are easy to install, work reliably, and are reasonably priced, especially in comparison to powered options.  I originally used them on all but one turnout on my layout, but have been replacing some of them lately with a simple spring installed in the turnout, as in the photo below...

However, my staging tracks are all controlled by Caboose Industries ground throws...

If these ground throws would be of use for your staging area, contact me via PM.

Wayne

 

 

 

[gregc]

MGAMike

I want to keep costs down, and  because I plan on having run-through staging, if I have ten staging tracks, that means I need 20 switch controls.  That is alot of Tortise Machines that can add up fast.

you can have one tortoise control more than one turnout if both turnouts are not on the same route. 

updated diagram show 2 pairs of turnouts, A & B, that can share a frog juicer

 

see my post under Installing a switch machine under an existing layout describing how to use a tortoise to control a pivot instead of being mounted directly under the throwbar.

a single tortoise can be linked to more than one pivot controlling a turnout.

[MisterBeasley]

Is the staging yard visible to the casual viewer?  Is it easy to reach?

My latest yard is Tortoise, but earlier ones were Atlas remotes.

Peco is pretty bulletproof but they cost more than Atlas.

Do you need position indicator lights on a control panel?

[RR_Mel]

Go with an Arduino controller and use the SG90 servos.  A single Arduino MEGA (under $10) will control 20 turnouts using SG90 Servos at $1.50 each.

 

  

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[riogrande5761]

In my last yard I was installing a combination of Atlas and Switchmaster switch machines.  The layout was torn down before I got control panels going.

Now I am planning a new layout with a staging yard which will employ probably around 20 turnouts.  I had a thought, why just forget all that expense and hassle and just install finger flick Peco turnouts this time around.

Sure seems nice not to have to pay for and install a whole bunch of switch matches and contollers and lots of wiring.  It's low tech but as long as you design staging with decent access, then to me it seems like elegant simplicity.

Those are my thoughts.

[MGAMike]

Hi All!!

As my suject line suggests, I am looking for ideas and opinions for turnout control in a staging yard.  Now, all turnouts on the sceniked part of the layout will have under-the-table devices (Tortise Switch Machine), but what to do with staging?  In staging, I want reliablity more-so than realism.  I want to keep costs down, and  because I plan on having run-through staging, if I have ten staging tracks, that means I need 20 switch controls.  That is alot of Tortise Machines that can add up fast.

Again, looking for realiability over realism.  Any thoughts?

Thanks in Advance for the help!!

Mike