Figuring out what is needed to build a layout

[arvanlaa]

Hey Everyone,

It has been a while since I posted on here. I have started to want to slowly build my little shelf layout which will be 18" x 48-60". One thing that has always stopped me is not really knowing what it will take, overall, to build the layout. Now, I am not talking about rolling stock and scenery (plants, building, cars, figures etc) but rather bench work, wiring, track, roadbed, controls etc. Basically what I need to get a layout up without adding any visual asthetics to it. 

I was hoping you lovely folks can help me with a shopping list of items I need to look for. So far I know I need:

Lumber
Fasteners
Foam board
Roadbed
Track
Track Joiners
Switches
Wiring
Power Pack

Is there anything else that I am missing? In particular little items that I may not be thinking of. I have NEVER built a layout before so please do not assume I already may have something that many of you take for granted as just laying around your workshop :)

Thank you for your assistance!

 

[nealknows]

I think before you start to figure out the cost of what you need from that list, first price out your lumber. Will it be free standing? Legs? Brackets? Type of wood to use? Once you figure that out, then decide on your track plan. What scale are you going to use? We can't give you a cost on track, roadbed and everything that goes with it until you figure that out. Are you going to use DC or DCC? Big price differences right there. 

All of the track and parts for that you can source the pricing online, AFTER you come up with a track plan. You also have to decide on your budget, first and foremost. 

We all have visions or grandeur, but that 'budget' keeps us from going overboard.

Good luck and keep us posted on how you want to proceed.

Neal

[arvanlaa]

Hey Neal, 

Thanks for your response :) 

The layout will be sitting ontop of a shelf on my desk so it will not be wall mounted. Therefore I will be needing make some lightweight bench work as I do want to be able to move it around if needed. I will be using spruce 2x4s that I will most likely rip so as to not have unnecessary weight and overkill on the strength department. 

I will be modelling in HO scale. I have no desire to switch to N so don't anyone try it! :P 

I will be using DC as it is better for my budget and I will only be running one train so I do not have the need for DCC. Maybe in the future but that will be a LONG way off. 

For the track plan, I have not decided on what I want to do just yet. It will be a timesaver or ingelnook style trackplan. In terms of pricing out track, I can handle that on my own. Rather, I am looking to just make sure I have all the items in my shopping list so that I am pricing everything out and not having any surprises that I do not know about. 

My budget is not set atm. I wanted to get this shopping list so that I can put together a cost estimate and present it to my wife and we can work out an agreement on how to proceed with purchases. My budget will be low. I will be looking for deals and not purchasing everything all together most likey.

Thanks again Neal!

[riogrande5761]

I wouldn't think the lumber to build an 1.5 x 5 foot shelf layout would be much at all but it depends on how you build it.  Without knowing any of that, I'd think the hardware (lumber, fasteners, foamboard, brackets etc. would be under a hundred dollars.  (I built a 10 x 18' around the walls layout for under $500 for all the benchwork and subroadbed.

In HO, for example, track and switches can be a bigger part of the cost, especially switches/turnouts depending on brand and quantity the cost could vary quite a bit (Atlas #6 can cost $14 each, MicroEngineering $19 each, Peco $27 each (MBK prices).

Us lovely people need more information to give you an estimate that is even ballpark.

[Harrison]

Once you have a track plan, I suggest going to a local train show with a list of track and turnouts, and looking for it used and cheap. This is what I do, and some of the turnouts need work, but the amount saved is amazing. You can often find lots of section track and turnouts, I usually give the section track to friends and use the turnouts. I did luck out on a lot of pre-painted flex track, it was $15 for about 30 pieces. Same goes for power packs, look for them cheap at shows, just make sure what you're getting is quality(MRC) and works.

[mobilman44]

Given you have limited space, I believe it best if you determine the exact size of the layout to be first.  Once you have that, and how you want to support it, we can give you a reasonable cost of materials range. 

Once you get the size of the layout surface, you can draw up a track plan.  Without that, no one can give you a cost estimate for "trackage".

Then there comes the operating system.....DC or DCC is the typical choice, and that is a big cost determination.

One more comment.........building a layout is something most all of us spent a lot of time doing.  So the total expenditure is spread over that time.

Good luck! 

 

[dknelson]

In a sense, getting into model railroading is like deciding to get married.  You don't go into it thinking "Well OK, how much is this going to cost me?"

The other similarity is that don't worry, you'll find out how much it costs soon enough.

Here is where the similarities end: with model railroading you can save money by going for used instead of new.

Dave Nelson

[arvanlaa]

Thank you all for you input. 

I think you have missed the point of my original post. I am just looking for a shopping list, not the costs. I need to know what items to buy, not the specifics. So for example, I know I need track. What track? I don't know yet but its on my shopping list to look into. 

It is like going to the grocery store for my wife. I don't need her to give me the prices she is looking for, I just need to know what she needs me to put in the cart :)

Thanks!

[Tinplate Toddler]

You should go back to your first post and edit the title, so people won´t answer questions you have not asked.

How can we tell you what you need if we don´t even have a track plan to give us an idea of what you are aiming at?

In any case, you will also need scenic materials, trees, shrubs, buildings, vehicles, figures.

[Old_standard-gauge]

One thing not on your list is power supply. Many modelers use power strips and/or surge protectors to kill all power to the layout. Which leads to lighting the layout. Since its in living space above your desk a well lit office may be ok but some like the lighting focused on the layout only. Then there are pets especially cats which like to lay on the layout only because you don't want them to. lastly may be storage since many of us accumulate more items than the layout holds where to store them when not in use.

Chris

[arvanlaa]

Thank Ulrich. I did edit that thank you :) 

As I mentioned, I am not looking for specific quantities or types of items. So when I say track, I don't need anyone to tell me how many turnouts, pieces of flex track or curved track is needed, just that I need to look up pricing for track. I am not looking at scenery right now but thank you for suggesting it :)

I am pretty sure I have most of the things one needs to build a layout, but I wanted to make sure I was not missing anything else. 

[UNCLEBUTCH]

Want simple ?

Get a sheet of 2in foam. around here they will sell 1/2 sheets. Lets say you got a 2X8 piece. Cut 2, 18in pcs. for legs, add the rest on top. you now have a 2X5 layout. Light wt. won't scratch your desk. Glue together with latex caulk.

IMHO you are already over thinking, and that will lead to frustration

[Attuvian]

All of the responses above are good and reasonable. But I'll opt for simply this: "more than you think, less than you're terrified of."  And don't even consider what will be the end of this particular endeavor when you move, upgrade or expand, or even decide to switch scales.

I think the one thing that we will all be in agreement on is that we put far more into our layouts than the insurance company (or anyone else) will offer for it.  It's the nature of the hobby to exchange dollars for knowledge, skill, and enjoyment. Only the ratios vary. Don't fall victim to "analysis paralysis".  Your only other concern is maintaining good relations with your honey.

Keep us all updated and have a GOOD time!

John

[UNCLEBUTCH]

Been thinking about the OP post;

Once you have your benchwork/table top, and track ;

You need to decide if you want road bed,  I don't use it

A way to hold track in place, I prefer caulk

Turn out control,

Power to rails,if you don't have soldering equip. or skills, use pre wired joiners

Add conrol system DC/DCC,engine,rolling stock,   there ya go

[riogrande5761]

UNCLEBUTCH

A way to hold track in place, I prefer caulk

 

If the OP is using foam as a base, then caulk is pretty much the only choice to hold track.  Or an adhesive similar to caulk.  Nails or spikes, which I prefer, is really only an option if you are holding track down to plywood, OSB or Homasote, which I also prefer.

[BigDaddy]

arvanlaa

The layout will be sitting ontop of a shelf on my desk so it will not be wall mounted.

I'd add foam safe caulk and wood glue to your list, but I would also suggest you look at Ken Patterson's youtube videos.  They are multi-topic videos so I can't point you to one specific video.

He works on a massive scale, compared to your proposal, but I think all you need is 2'' foam and some tempered hardboard fascia.  He tunnels all the wiring to the front of the foam, and where he needs to, insets panels in the fascia. 

That said, I don't ever recall him saying what he uses for switch machines.  If is is your desire to use tortoises, you are going to need more vertical space under the layout.  

I used this plywood framing, with foam instead of plywood on top, for my modules

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/get-started/2011/11/benchwork-for-your-model-railroad

[kasskaboose]

Things that have not been mentioned but are a must-have include the following:

track cutters

plastic nippers (to remove plastic for structures, etc).

rail spikes

rail joiners

NMRA gauge

rail/coupler gauge

HO ruler

kitchen scale

fishing lures (to make freight cars heavier)

thumb tacks (to secure track, mark areas to fix, etc).

There's plenty more...

[BATMAN]

arvanlaa

just that I need to look up pricing for track

 

Here is a website of a Canadian company.

https://www.pwrs.ca/product_search.php

It is retail prices but will give you some idea as to what things will cost. Shop the sales and ask for discounts and/or make an offer, I do this all the time on bigger ticket items. When I shop retail prices I will ask for discounts on things over a $100.00 and almost always get it. I am not going to haggle 15% off a $30.00 boxcar and my local retailer appreciates that and will really give me a good discount on a $500.00 locomotive. 

I have made offers on two different locomotives at different times that were in the sale flyer month after month for quite a while and got them both for about 75% off retail in the end. The retailers were glad to be rid of them. If you have the patience to wait for things you would like to have and don't develop the "I gotta have it now" attitude and don't impulse buy, you will get a lot more for your Loonies.

When buying online, try and get lots of items at the same time even if you won't need them for a while as you will save on shipping.

Train shows are great places to get things cheap. Often, you will find boxes of old transformers under the tables at shows and you can get them for a $1.00 each. When I buy one I usually grab a European brand as they tend to be less beat up than the North American ones are. I bought a bundle of five pieces of 1 metre used track for a $1.00 at a train show for the sole purpose of practicing my soldering, when I got home and took a closer look at it, I found it was in very good condition and could be easily used on a layout by someone on a budget.

Post a list of what you need and we here can keep an eye open for you and maybe some generous person might send you some stuff he doesn't need anymore.

Good luck.

[dstarr]

I built my layout using 2 inch foamboard.  I made roadbed out of soft pine and glued it down to the foam using acrylic caulking compound from a caulking gun.  For a switching layout you could skip the roadbed and just glue the track down to the foamboard with caulking compound.  Real life yard tracks didn't have the raised ballast roadbed that mainline track has.  My wood roadbed allowed me to secure the track with nails so it could be relocated fairly easily.  I put 1 by 4 fascia boards around the edges of the foam partly for looks and partly to protect the foam from elbows which will dent it.  I put a sheet of 1/2 inch plywood underneath the foamboard, not for strength (foam board is strong enough) but to give me something to screw under table stuff, switch machines, wire looms, terminal blocks, etc. into.  Foam board won't hold fasteners.  Plus the plywood gives a simple way to mount the fascia boards.  i just ran 1/2 inch dadoes in the backside of the fascia boards, a little Titebond carpenter's glue and everything is good and solid. 

   If you go with undertable switch machines, Tortoise for example, you will need to have some kind of short 6 inch legs to keep the weight of the layout off the switch machines.  Or you could go with Atlas snap switches with surface switch machines, or you could go with overcenter springs on the points and throw the switches with your  fingers. 

  I run DC, just one cab.  I ran a power bus made of #14 solid copper house wire all around the layout.  #14 is overkill from an electrical standpoint, but it is mechanically rugged, and you can peel off a short length of insulation, wrap the #24 track feeders around the bus wires, and then solder.  You don't have to worry about knicking wire strands with the Xacto knife, the solid copper doesn't care.  Try to avoid #12 house wire, it is very stiff and hard to work.  If you stagger the north rail feeders from the south rail feeders you won't have to insulate the feeder-to-bus-wire junctions. I used 3 foot lengths of flex track and ran feeders to every other piece of track.  I have not soldered the rail joiners and I have good electrical connections.  I mounted toggle switches for switch machine control and electrical block control on home made brackets screwed to the bottom of the fascia boards.  I used a couple of old 9 volt wall warts for Tortoise plus and minus power, and more wall warts to power structure lights.

Good luck.  Have fun.  Post some pictures as you go along.

 

[davidmurray]

There is a Model Railroad show in LINDSAY on April 6 and 7 this year.  It has been an annual event for 40+ years.  Located downtown in the old armoury.

Maybe get so ideas or advice from exhibitors.

Dave

 

[SeeYou190]

arvanlaa

I wanted to get this shopping list so that I can put together a cost estimate and present it to my wife

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A fool's errand for sure.

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Whatever you thnk it will cost... triple it.

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My wife has been very understanding. My budget has always been more of a "per month" thing than a "total project cost" thing.

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I am over $1,000.00 into this future landfill occupier, and she has not left me over it.

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-Kevin

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[mbinsewi]

OK, so you said you need help with the shopping list, let's go through what you have,

arvanlaa

Lumber Fasteners Foam board

You'll get all of that probably at the same place, a lumber yard, or a big box thing like Home Depot, or Lowes, or Menards (If you have one in your area), I would add maybe add 3 or 4 tubes of white latex caulk, to use as a adhesive for the track bed to foam and the track to track bed.  Track nails won't work with a foam base.

arvanlaa

Roadbed

There are a couple of options, cork is probably the most popular, and the easiest to find.

arvanlaa

Track Track Joiners Switches

Go with Atlas track, joiners and switches (turnouts), go with code 100, nickel silver.  

I don't know what you have for hobby stores in your location, but you'll probably find it all in one place.

I suggested Atlas because it will be the easiest to find.

arvanlaa

Wiring Power Pack

I think you could use 22 ga. It should be fine for your needs, and easy to work with, get the stranded wire, not solid. Get red and black wire, so you can keep the wiring seperated the way it needs to be.

Atlas also makes track joiners that have a feeder wire already attached, those would be handy for you to use instead of any soldering.

For a power pack, I would go with MRC.  The 2500 would be biggest I would get, but you could probably use the 1400. 

No special tools needed, maybe a wire stripper, easier than a knive, some electrical tape, maybe even some small wire nuts to make your connections, and speaking of connections, there are many options, I'm just suggesting the simplist ways.

If I think of anything else, I'll post again.

Good luck, and above all, have fun!

Mike.

 

 

[mobilman44]

I would urge the OP to pick up a couple of the Kalmbach "how to" books (Ebay always has a ton of them) and get a feel for what it takes to build that first layout - be it shelf or empire.

Asking the Forum to put together a shopping list just isn't a workable request.

[floridaflyer]

What mobilman said. 

[IRONROOSTER]

Without more specifics it's hard to tell if you have it all listed.

But you probably have it covered.

Price it all out, small layout so shouldn't be much.  Add $20 to the total for stuff you'll decide you need as you go.  Then get started.

Good luck

Paul

[hon30critter]

davidmurray

There is a Model Railroad show in LINDSAY on April 6 and 7 this year.  It has been an annual event for 40+ years.  Located downtown in the old armoury. Maybe get so ideas or advice from exhibitors.

Hi arvanlaa,

Dave makes a great suggestion. In fact our club, the Barrie Allandale Railway Modellers, will be at the show and I will be there both days. I would be happy to spend some time with you discussing your project. Ask for Dave Warnica.

As far as your original question is concerned, do you already have the 2x4s? If not, I would suggest using 1x3 select pine or poplar. Even if you do have the 2x4s, they may warp after you rip them. I would let them sit in the layout area for a few days after you rip them to see what they will do before starting to build the frame.

You have already listed most of what you will need, but here are a few additions:

- wood glue for the frame joints and cork roadbed

- 2 1/2" wood screws and a proper size drill bit

- PL 300 foam adhesive

- black marker for drawing track center lines

- push pins or weights for holding the cork roadbed down while the glue dries

- track nails or adhesive caulk. I would recommend track nails, at least at first, so it will be easy for you to make adjustments.

- solder and the necessary equipment 

- something to keep the wires attached to the bottom of the subroadbed. Self stick Velcro works well. Just don't peel the backing off one side:

https://www.amazon.ca/VELCRO-Brand-Fasteners-Organized-Connected/dp/B00006IC2L/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1VGKPAQXTHK9B&keywords=velcro+tape&qid=1551500933&s=gateway&sprefix=velcro%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-3

- You may want a couple of toggle switches so you can turn off sections of track. That would allow you to park a locomotive while you operate another one.

You should also decide things like wire gauge and colour. Even though you are starting with DC you might want to put in a DCC style bus so it will be easier to convert the layout later on should you decide to do so. The layout is not huge. It won't take that much more wire.

That's all I can think of. I'm sure there will be more.

Dave

[rrebell]

Benchwork is easy, all you need is 1x4s, construction screws, 2" foam and siloconized latex caulk. Tools are screw gun and circular saw (HD has a Ryobi combo set on sale now for $79), framers square and caulk gun. For the size you are going for it might cost you $50 for materials (you will have leftovers), Tools total will run less than $100.

[arvanlaa]

Thank you everyone for your responses! I greatly appreciate it :) For those who were able to help me out with more details on the exact layout, I really appreciate your time helping. For those who would like to know before offering up suggestions, I will be making a Work in Progress thread once I start out and will keep everyone updated there for those who are interested. Dave. I plan on attending the Lindsey show in April and I will definitely seek you out and connect!

[hon30critter]

arvanlaa

Dave. I plan on attending the Lindsey show in April and I will definitely seek you out and connect!

That's great. I look forward to meeting you!

Plans have changed a bit. I will be there all day Saturday but I won't be there on Sunday until probably after 1:00 pm. Our club's show committee has to view a new venue for next year's show and sale on Sunday morning. It will still be at Bradford Green Houses in Barrie but in a different area.

Dave

[SeeYou190]

rrebell

Benchwork is easy, all you need is 1x4s, construction screws, 2" foam and siloconized latex caulk

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Easy for you to say.

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If I want 2" foam, I need to go on a 500 mile road trip. Homasote requires a 1,000 mile trip.

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-Kevin

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