Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

What is the Ideal Height for a Layout from Eye Level

4805 views
38 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Fairmount (Syracuse) NY
  • 1,226 posts
Posted by JPowell on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 3:55 PM

Interesting I found this topic on here. In the last 3 days, while going through my copies of MR, MRP, and GMR, I came across 4 articles on this very topic and it has made me stop my planning to check what layout height, I feel, will work for me. 

For those wondering, the 4 articles can be found in the following:

May 2000 MR, Pg 34, Workshop: Layout Heights

MRP 2006, Pg 89, Planning Tip: Visualizing Layout Elevation

MRP 2006, Pg 92, Planning Tip: Choosing Layout Height

and finally MRP 2007, Layout Height: Should-high, or bird's-eye? This, nice in-depth article, on pages 8-13, even provides an equation for figuring out what layout height would be appropriate using one's own human height. The article includes sub-topics such as reach-in distance, helix or continuous grade, single or multi-level, etc.

//signed// John Powell President / CEO CNY Transportation Corp (fictional)

http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s303/nuts4sports34/

Hunter - When we met in January of 2000, you were just a 6 week old pup who walked his way into this heart of mine as the only runt in the litter who would come over to me. And today, I sit here and tell you I am sorry we had to put you down. It was the best thing for you and also the right thing to do. May you now rest in peace and comfort. Love, Dad. 8 June 2010

I love you and miss you Mom. Say hi to everyone up there for me. Rest in peace and comfort. Love, John. 29 March 2017

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Ridgeville,South Carolina
  • 1,294 posts
Posted by willy6 on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 8:19 AM

Being I built my benchwork with 2 X 4's, I opted for 48" because I could get 2 legs out of one board. Then I topped with 1/2" plywood and 1/2" foam. Track height is 49" inches to 56". I'm 6'0" and have about a 32" reach @ 48" high.

Being old is when you didn't loose it, it's that you just can't remember where you put it.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:22 AM

SeeYou190

 

My original remodel plan was to add a second floor and put the layout upstairs.

.

Nope. Changed my mind. Everything is on one level, a wheelchair ramp only needs to go up three inches to get over the threshhold, and no basement or attic.

.

This is where I plan to stay.

.

-Kevin

.

 

Kevin
 
You’re correct about planning ahead!  My health problems are related to an on the job injury in 1965.  At 50 everything was OK, even at 70 it wasn’t too bad but now it’s terrible.  If it doesn’t hurt at a 10+ then it died and fell off.  Having a bad case of Arthritis also adds to the problems.
 
You don’t know if you might not be able to get around as you grow old.  I just lucked out building my layout at table top level.  There is no way I could handle a bar stool now.  Getting in and out of a car is a major task.  One of those little three wheeled electric scooters is looking pretty good right now.
 
I’m just so happy that I can still get around well enough to work on and around my layout.  I wouldn’t be able to do much of anything if it wasn’t for all my helping goodies like grabbers, magnetic pickup tools and grab rails.  I’ve always been clumsy (I have a bad case of the dropsy’s) and that gets worse with age too.
 
The Golden Years are made out of Lead at our house.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    March 2017
  • 8,173 posts
Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:19 AM

I've been giving a lot of thought to different layout Heights. I'm gearing more towards an ideal working height for starters. I have a lot of work left to do on my layout.

The bathroom vanity even had me thinking. It is only 31" tall with an 8" inch deep sink. When I come home from wxxk with my Filthy Hands, my back gets more sore washing them then it does at work.

Too high of a reach doing your modeling probably isn't good. Hunched over would be even worse. Countless hours are spent modeling as the years fly by. As pointed out here, planning for the future is not just a good idea but a necessity. I'm going to get older, things will get harder.

TF

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 6:24 AM

mbinsewi
Layout is in the basement, full bath and bedroom on the second floor.  Nope I won't be here! Mike.

.

My original remodel plan was to add a second floor and put the layout upstairs.

.

Nope. Changed my mind. Everything is on one level, a wheelchair ramp only needs to go up three inches to get over the threshhold, and no basement or attic.

.

This is where I plan to stay.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 7:58 PM

Your right BNSF, I have couple in the train room, one at the work bench, as that's how high my bench is, and one, just because it's there, and I sit sometimes, and watch a train. 

I can't stand a regular height chair anymore.  We have stools in the kitchen, with a bar height counter we eat at.

Mike.

  • Member since
    March 2018
  • 688 posts
Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 5:55 PM

For those who want to stand AND sit to run trains, I have found a barstool to be a great solution. Got mine brand new from a garage/yard sale for $10.

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

  • Member since
    November 2018
  • From: Just another small town in Ohio
  • 268 posts
Posted by Erie1951 on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 5:22 PM

This is an interesting discussion, Guys. At my current bench work height, I'll be able to look directly into the layout although I'm not sure that's what I ultimately want. Like many here, I have problems standing and will operate the layout from a seated position. As it is right now, the section that's under construction is 2'4" x 7' long. I first built the top with hinges in the rear that allows me to tilt the top up to 45° for wiring and switch machine installation. It was the idea of a friend and fellow modeler that helped me put the bench work and top together and it's great for working on a shelf layout. Now that my former Sn3 track work, wiring, control panel, etc. have been stripped out, this will help me out with the HO project. There's just no way that I could climb under a layout at my age. The height that I need to consider would allow about 35° viewing angle that has to allow for a lighting valance. This way, I think, I'll be able to view the rooftops of the buildings and get a better idea of where cars are when hidden behind them. I may not be able to lower the height of the layout, but I think that an adjustable chair may just do the trick.

Russ

Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ.  Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 2:13 PM

As far as the plan for the future, and make things easy to do in a wheel chair, well if that happens to me, I won't be in this house.

Layout is in the basement, full bath and bedroom on the second floor.  Nope I won't be here! Laugh

Mike.

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Southern California
  • 1,682 posts
Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 2:03 PM

    When I was a kid I built my first layout. It was table height. That was fine at first but then I out grew it. I liked the view I had when I first built it but later it was too much looking down at it from above for my likes.
    When I decided to raise it I found that it was not an easy thing to do and ended up pretty much rebuilding the whole thing.
    Some people want a lower layout because they think that it is easier to work on. I have no problem working on a high layout. When I did construction I was an electrician so I spent have of the time working while standing on a ladder, so standing on a stepstool to work on my layout is no big deal to me. And the higher layout means that it is easy to work on the wiring hidden underneath. To me crawling around on my knees or laying on my back is not ok. I’d rather climb a ladder than be down on the floor.
    It’s all personal preference so you need to decide for yourself. I think that the perfect eye level is about one foot below your height.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 11:10 AM

SeeYou190

 

Also, build your front benchwork strong enough to install a bathroom style support bar when that becomes necessary, it will.

.

-Kevin

.

 

Thanks for adding the Grab Bar Kevin, I forgot about that.  The funny commercial about “I’ve fallen and can’t get up” is very true.  Somewhere down the road I must have really pissed off Father Time because he’s really getting even.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 11:09 AM

Lots of opinions, all with careful consideration.  I have found that I enjoy the view, and enjoy the ease of access and reach, when the layout's tracks and most structures are near the level of my navel, which is really just above my 'pivot point' when I bend.

You DO NOT want anything you'd hate to part with, replace, or repair near your elbows.  So I would advise against having a layout's operating surfaces higher than about 44", give or take, depending one one's stature.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 11:07 AM

Having done it once, and decided I did not like it, I'm not so sure the eye level thing really holds up as being more a "realistic" view in the smaller scales.

At three actual feet, you are 261 scale feet away in HO. Even at 1 foot, 87 feet is a considerable distance.

When I stand in an open area in real life, or look down the highway in front of me, I can see a great distance, hundreds, even thousands of feet.

But if I am eye level looking at a model layout in a small scale it seems hard to see more than 100 scale feet or so into the scene?

Here where we live, we have a highway, US 40, and on one side it is paralleled by the old B&O mainline, on the other side by the old PRR mainline. As you drive along the road there are places where both are in view only a few hundred feet off the road, but as a panoramic view, you could never recreate that with eye level viewing.

Just my opinion.

Building my new layout between 40" and 46" track elevation, eye level in a chair, panoramic on a stool or standing........

Scenes are mostly 4' deep, benchwork strong enough to walk on....

Going totaly old school and really excited about it.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:34 AM

While eye level is probably most ideal for watching trains, there are other considerations like access for building and scenicing, as well as operations etc. so a compromise is probably the best solution; ulimately it's a personal choice which is partly based on your height.  

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:33 AM

ROBERT PETRICK
He has an unnatural (but understandable) fear of umbrellas.

.

My three biggest fears:

.

1) Automatic door closers

2) Ceiling fans on 12" down rods

3) Magnetic door lock brackets

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:22 AM

SeeYou190

I am 6 foot 7 inches. Nothing in the world is "eye-level" for me.

I know a guy who's 6'-8". He has an unnatural (but understandable) fear of umbrellas. Umbrella

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: 53° 33′ N, 10° 0′ E
  • 2,508 posts
Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 8:47 AM

No doubt that "eye level" gives you the feeling of the real thing, but what eye level really means, is an equasion of quite a few factors, like

  • Your height
  • Are you operating your layout standing up or being seated
  • Depth of your layout
  • Scale

The smaller the scale, the closer to your real eye level the layout should be.

I think the best approach is to experiment with different heights, to find out what meets your expectations and is still comfrtable to work with and operate.

My personal "data" is real eye level minus 6" for HO scale and minus 3" for N scale, the overall height depending whether I will be standing or sitting while operating the layout.

 

 

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 8:18 AM

I am 6 foot 7 inches. Nothing in the world is "eye-level" for me.

.

RR_Mel
If this will be your last layout think about your future.

.

This is the best advice. My layout is going to be at wheelchair height and wheelchair access. Just in case. I have had several friends through the years become bound to wheelchairs, and lose their layouts.

.

Also, build your front benchwork strong enough to install a bathroom style support bar when that becomes necessary, it will.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 2,360 posts
Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 7:06 AM

I'm 5'8" and have a 2" foam layout on top of a 48" table.  That height works for me.  Looking at a layout at eye level is ideal.  Having it at waist or chest level doesn't appear suitable for me.

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: East Central Florida
  • 480 posts
Posted by Onewolf on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 6:43 AM

I am 5'11".  My layout is a three level mushroom design.  The lower level is mostly at 42" with one section (Ogden) at 46".  The middle level is mostly 62", and the upper level is mostly 52" with one area at 58".   So it has heights of 42, 46, 52, 58, and 62.  Hopefully everyone can find a height they like.  :)

Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.

- Photo album of layout construction -

  • Member since
    March 2017
  • 8,173 posts
Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 6:25 AM

Thanks for all the replies. Your comments definitely gave me more to think about. Sometimes Common Sense isn't exactly my strong suit. 

Had I put my layout at an ideal finished height before the work is done wouldn't have been a good idea. I'm sure this would be hard on my rotary cuff as I have a kink in one from working construction all my life.

As it turns out there was too many errands to run on my day off yesterday so maybe I'll get to it this weekend. I think I will put the height at  34 inches so things are easy to work on. I can always move the layout up someday when I am finished.

Thanks again   Track Fiddler

PS.   Again the layout is very light being that it is made of foam. The nice thing is I can flip it up on its side to make wiring easy when I get to that part.

  • Member since
    March 2018
  • 688 posts
Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Monday, January 21, 2019 2:58 PM

Track Fiddler:

I am 5' 6" give or take

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Southern California
  • 1,682 posts
Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Monday, January 21, 2019 2:40 PM

    I am six feet tall. The rail height on my eye level layout is between 60 to 66 inches. Most of it is at the 61 inch elevation for part of it climbs up into the mountains. With the elevation just over a foot below my height I get a view which is like standing in the middle of a street looking at the trains and buildings. The roofs of two or three story buildings are just above eye level. I prefer this kind of in your face layout compared to the overhead helicopter view. It makes the distances seem farther and you can see the details much better.
    Some people might think that this is too high but I built it for me not them. Kids grow up and they grow to be your same height or taller. I have a couple of stepstools for when I need to be up higher for decorating or maintenance. If short people want a better view they can stand on a stepstool.
    The best way to decide which height is best for you is to use adjustable shelves as a test. Set some of your locomotives and cars on the shelf, also some buildings. Test all of the levels and see which level you prefer.

Knape & Vogt 8 in. x 24 in. White Standards and Brackets Decorative Shelf Kit

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 2,572 posts
Posted by John-NYBW on Monday, January 21, 2019 11:02 AM

It's really a matter of preference. A true eye level layout would put you at ground level. There are pros and cons to that approach. I stand 6 feet and I've found 4 feet to be the minimum height I want my track to be. With grades, there are places where it rises to almost 5 feet. That is the highest I would want my track to be. 

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,439 posts
Posted by dknelson on Monday, January 21, 2019 10:45 AM

I am 6' 6 1/2" (and I was 6'8" when I started the layout!) so my notions of layout height are unlikely to be shared by many.  Height, age, mobility, eyesight, size of stomach (yes!), depth of benchwork, the lighting and physical situation in the layout room, all factor in.  And if you operate with friends, the issues multiply.

One thing is clear, or at least is becoming ever more clear to me: the "ideal" height for the layout just based on viewing/"railfanning" and layout photography -- which is in that armpit to eyeball range -- is NOT the same height as for track laying, scenicking and creating roads and structures, and most critically, layout wiring.  

David Barrow would do as much wiring as possible of his benchwork "dominos" on his workbench rather than wiring them in place, but not all are in a position to follow his lead.

Dave Nelson

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, January 21, 2019 8:45 AM

I find it difficult to think anyone on this forum can say what is right for you.  The only way you will really know is to experiment, perhaps setting a module on different heights and eye balling it for awhile.

To paraphase a local mattress maker here........."what's right for me is not right for you", "we are all different".

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, January 21, 2019 8:18 AM

If this will be your last layout think about your future.  I’m 6’3” and built my layout at table top level for our Grandchildren.  As I’ve aged my abilities have narrowed.  At 52 when I started my layout I was in pretty good health but now at 81 I have an inoperative bone to bone right knee arthritis in both ankles hips and shoulders.  I can only be on my feet for about 30 minutes with a 30 minute rest period sitting.  I bought a doctors roll around stool with a back rest that works great for doing things around my layout during the rest periods.
 
I lucked out by building my layout at 34” for the kiddos, I wouldn’t have been able to continue my layout had I gone any higher.   
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, January 21, 2019 8:14 AM

I built one layout at "eye level", never again. Actually it was the upper deck of a multi level layout, built at about 58".

The new upcoming layout, base track elevation will be 38" or 40", max track elevation about 46". No more double deck layouts for me.

Eye level viewing......sit in a chair, I will be keeping my aisles wide for that reason, most will be 5'.

Just my thoughts.

My new layout will have deep scenery, 3 to 4 feet most everywhere. After building a few "shelf layouts", I have decided I prefer a more old school approach.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, January 21, 2019 7:42 AM

Track fiddler
Tomorrow I will build 42 inch cantilever truss support brackets to suspended it off the wall. It will have heavy duty drawer slides so It can be pulled out from the wall at any given time as I need to get behind it.

Or you could use wheels.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!