Model Trains and RailfanningThank you to everyone who has responded to my question. I did not expect this many replies. And to address the people complaining about me not responding, I am sorry but I am really not on my PC much at all. I am also relatively new to the forums and don't really know the, for lack of a better term, "unwritten rules" when it comes to replying or not replying. Also, the majority of the questions asked to me take a little bit of pondering for the best answer. I am sorry for any inconvenience I have caused anyone. -Nathaniel Nagel
Gary
So, As another new feller wanting to start a layout for the (well, since high school many years ago...) Im in the process of running wiring in my "train room". I have approx 11x6 L shape. I hope to build a large shop/servicing terminal. I dont really care to run trains, but play in my shops. spotting shop, fuel tracks, powering OB trains that dont exist etc. I love the advice I've read so far here. What would the old heads recommend for lighting, how many outlets/amprage do i need to plan for? I hope to have a sizable fleet of sound units, I would rather have a larger fleet of unpowered units with sound but no motors and gearing, but from previous posts I have gleaned they really don't exist. Even if Im not back right away, I promise I will read what advice is given. Thanks!
Hello Nathaniel,
I suggest you look at the top right of this page and you will see an area called "messages" . A PM is a private message and I have sent you one which of course you have no obligation to answer. However the article I have copied can potentially help you and there is no cost now or in the future.
The same goes for anyone who PM's me with their private email address because this site does not allow attachments,
Cheers from Australia
Trevor
Some are genuinely seeking advice.
Some are simply overwhelmed by the answers - also to questions they have not asked.
Some just like to "stir the pot".
We can´t win them all.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
riogrande5761C'mon you guys who start threads needing help, interact!
That would be ideal, but they have no such obligation.
I had a friend in another forum who use to write: "I love my computer because all my friends live there" That's cute and sad, all at the same time.
As a society, we haven't figured out how to balance real life and social media. Evidently a good part of us are addicted to our cell phones. I didn't get that gene, having to wear a beeper 24/7 I no longer want to be in instant contact with anyone at any time.
We see people in this forum post with unfamiliar names and on closer look, they have been members for 5 or 10 years and only made a handful of posts.
Actually, I belong to other forums, in other areas of interest, where I had to join to see a picture, ask a question, or to search a topic, and have only made one or two posts.
Not everyone is consumed by model railroading. It is their loss.
Maybe we should view our answers to newbies as loss leaders, something cheap to get them in the store. Some customers come back, others are just looking for the next losss leader.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Tinplate Toddler riogrande5761 Op seems to have never returned to the topic. Here we are talking among ourselves. Does this seem like a familiar situation here at MR forums? Just sayin ... He was back once, on Friday Jan. 11th.
riogrande5761 Op seems to have never returned to the topic. Here we are talking among ourselves. Does this seem like a familiar situation here at MR forums? Just sayin ...
Op seems to have never returned to the topic.
Here we are talking among ourselves. Does this seem like a familiar situation here at MR forums?
Just sayin ...
He was back once, on Friday Jan. 11th.
Didn't make much difference.
C'mon you guys who start threads needing help, interact!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
How about that weather?
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Some of the advise I would give would depend on how much space you have. So let us know and then the info you get can be somewhat filtered. What you can't do is also an important part of planning. For instance, all my curves are over 30". Too small for some of the rolling stock I have purchased over the years to look good and /or operate well.
I tend to stay away from books on the subject as it is all online now and for free.
Don't bite off more than you can chew...
I mean that in the sense that even though you might have the space for a massive layout, you might not want to build one because:
-It takes too much time
-Track, scenery, e.t.c. costs a fair bit of money
-Maintinence
Also, don't buy too many kit buildings at once. I made this mistake, and it was just annoying looking at them all and thinking, 'ugh, I'll do it some other time'.
Look if you want to have a specific railroad, location, time period, e.t.c. and try to follow the general rules of each qualification. Or, if you're like me and own a 4-4-0 general and a 2-8-8-2 Y6B and everything in- between, you can create a flexible layout, (figuratively), that can look like it could belong to different time periods.
Also, trainshows. Go to trainshows if they are in your local area. They give you tons and tons of inspiration for layouts, people to ask questions and talk to, and sometimes really good prices for locomotives and rolling stock.
Overall, though, be reasonable, and don't forget to have fun of course!!
I always admire how helpful people are in this forum to give a novice a good start, but sometimes I find the advice overwhelming to a newbie.
How to get a good start? That´s simple!
1. Get a beginner´s book. It´ll give you a lesson on what to expect and teach you the lingo of this crazy bunch of folks calling themselves model railroaders.
2. Watch the online video series of "The World´s Greatest Hobby". The videos will walk you through building a typical beginner´s layout.
https://www.youtube.com/user/dkswans/videos
That´s all you need to get started!
Model Trains and RailfanningYes it is. Sorry for not mentioning that earlier.
.
I am assuming this is the answer to "Is this your first layout".
If it is your first, and I know this is not a popular answer...
Just build something knowing it will hit the landfill very soon. No oatter how well you plan, your first layout will not be what you want. You will not know what you really want until you build something.
Just build something simple. Learn the basics or DC or DCC, track laying, wiring, etc. Throw some scenery down, run some trains.
Then figure out what you really want, read, learn, and start over.
Do not let the flood of information at the beginning stall your enthusiasm. Get something, anything, built and run some trains.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I think one reason people start, and rarely complete, layouts, was because of poor planning. Give careful consideration to what kind of layout you want. Someone else commented, "start small". I did just that. My current layout started out taking up 10x12²'. Since that time, it has expanded to 27x29²', and, although that's smaller than some layouts, think about time spent on maintaining the layout. You want to enjoy it, not spending most of your time cleaning track, dust removal, etc.
Another consideration is how many operators are you planning to have? Mine is DC and wired for multiple cab operations. One can run trains on the lower level, another can run them on the upper level, and yet another can do switching operations from 3 different locations.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Keep a record of what you did each day during the construction of your layout. I did this just because I am curious to see how long the railroad took to build.
There are a lot of factors to consider in this hobby. MR is something that provides a lot of enjoyment with building new things, recreating a part of a childhood, or trying new skills.
Perhaps the OP wants to see this post "grow a bit" before providing more detail. We've provided a lot of sound advice. The suggestions here require serious consideration. I get that this hobby requires a level of dedication. I too have a family and a full-time job. Devoting hours to it daily are not possible. Heck, even giving 45 minutes at night is not always possible.
There is a dizzying amount of information on this hobby online. Something unmentioned is talking to a local LHS or NMRA group. Perhaps the OP can find a mentor who can steer the OP through some of what's above.
richhotrainHeck, he just started this thread on Saturday. Maybe he works for a living and cannot reply during the week.
I'm busy a lot and I work for a living but it's easy to reply to a topic these days what with computers at home, at work and smart phones in the pocket. I agree with Ulrich, the OP could drop by and help us better help him sooner than later. So maybe he can't drop by the forums on his lunch break at work, what about home? What about while visiting the loo and post on the smart phone? Where there is a will, there is a way. Truth!
The question is so broad as to defy any real substantive answers. So what is there to reply to? Rich
Rich
Yes, often people come in and need to throw us a bone to get better help.
bearmanI am fairly certain that my comment might meet with some resistance, but I would suggest starting off with a simple 8' X 4' layout with a starter DCC system. A couple or three spurs and a siding and you can get some expereince running a train, switching industries and figuring out what you want in a larger layout if it comes to that. Beyond Armstrong's book, MRR mag has a lot of great 8' X 4' layout plans in the data base.
but I would suggest starting off with a simple 8' X 4' layout with a starter DCC system.
A couple or three spurs and a siding and you can get some expereince running a train, switching industries and figuring out what you want in a larger layout if it comes to that. Beyond Armstrong's book, MRR mag has a lot of great 8' X 4' layout plans in the data base.
Resistance is futile!
For a beginner, I totally agree. Lacking any information, start with a 4x8 and use that platform to build the basic skills of building a layout. Then you can think about leveling up to a larger layout after that.
I don't think it makes sence to write a treatise for the OP until he fills us in on some specifics.
Heck, he just started this thread on Saturday. Maybe he works for a living and cannot reply during the week.
But, the real issue is the opening salvo, "I am about to start on building an ho scale layout and what wondering what advice people have".
The question is so broad as to defy any real substantive answers. So what is there to reply to?
Alton Junction
With the tons of legitimate good advice given in the answers, I am afraid we have either intimidated the OP or he just poked a stick into the anthill to see how we frantically move around.
With 13 posts so far, the OP is not under moderation and could have shown up and give a feedback.
I am fairly certain that my comment might meet with some resistance, but I would suggest starting off with a simple 8' X 4' layout with a starter DCC system. A couple or three spurs and a siding and you can get some expereince running a train, switching industries and figuring out what you want in a larger layout if it comes to that. Beyond Armstrong's book, MRR mag has a lot of great 8' X 4' layout plans in the data base.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
xboxtravis7992Also one note of caution, I have never really read much of John Armstrong's books on layout planning; but the bits I have seen do have some elements that have aged poorly in the last few years. Lots of 18" radius curves, odd operating set ups like switchbacks at otherwise flat industries, etc.
I think that his use of tight radii is secondary to the value of the information in his book. The book is extremely valuable when it comes to understanding how railways actually work, and it offers modelling opportunities that prototypical operations might not.
For example, my first (uneducated) attempt at designing a yard looked great to me. Then I read Armstrong's book and I realized that my 'perfect' yard design would not have worked well at all. In fact, it would have been quite disfunctional.
As far as his use of switchbacks at industries, I think that one has to recognise the operating interest that such track arrangements provide. Whether or not they are prototypical of modern operations isn't really the point. The switchbacks give the operator something to do besides simply running trains in and out of a siding. On our club's new permanent layout we are deliberately adding in non-prototypical track arrangements in some of our industrial sidings simply because they will provide an opportunity for an operator to move cars about for a couple of hours without going on to the mainline. Prototypical railways would do anything to avoid unnecessary car movements. We chose to do exactly the opposite.
The book is well worth reading. You will get an enormous amount of useful information from it.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Model Trains and RailfanningI am about to start on building an ho scale layout and what wondering what advice people have. Thanks!
Is this your first layout? That makes a big difference in what you should be doing.
xboxtravis7992Also one note of caution, I have never really read much of John Armstrong's books on layout planning; but the bits I have seen do have some elements that have aged poorly in the last few years. Lots of 18" radius curves, odd operating set ups like switchbacks
John Armstrong did a lot of designing for small space layouts. As such, 18" curves and switchbacks were often necessary.
In his book Track Planning for Realistic Operation he discusses some of the tradeoffs you have to make. He also covers how railroads did things and some of the ways you duplicate that on your layout. His book Creative Layout Design (sadly out of print) is a good part two to Track Planning for Realistic Operation. These two books are the best at showing John Armstrong's talents for model railroad layout design. IMHO everyone in the hobby who wants to design their own layout should have these 2 books.
Personally, the only way I can accomplish what I want in my space requires that I use sharp curves and aisleways less than 3' in most places. But testing of my equipment shows that what I will be running will work just fine for me.
Paul
hon30critter - Go with DCC to start. (Directly the opposite of what David Starr is suggesting). Yes, it costs more than DC but it allows you to focus on running your trains instead of having to constantly keep an eye on track polarity. Sound is neat too if you manage it properly, i.e. turn the volume down. If you go with NCE it is not complicated to get started. Digitrax is IMHO.
- Go with DCC to start. (Directly the opposite of what David Starr is suggesting). Yes, it costs more than DC but it allows you to focus on running your trains instead of having to constantly keep an eye on track polarity. Sound is neat too if you manage it properly, i.e. turn the volume down. If you go with NCE it is not complicated to get started. Digitrax is IMHO.
Yeah I got the same opinion here. There really is no reason in the year 2019 not to start with DCC out of the gate. Simply put, DCC is like the iPhone-Android smart phones of the model railroading world, and DC is like those big brick phones from the late 80's. Yes, DC does offer some advantages in that its cheaper and somewhat simpler to wire... if you only intend to run one train at a time. However as soon as you want to run multiple trains DC requires wiring with insulated blocks for the yards and sidings, setting up control panels, etc. In comparison, buy an NCE DCC starter kit; make sure there are a few feeder wires to keep all the lines powered and boom; just like that you can run a small fleet of trains altogether in the same power block. The only analog system that offers a bit more versatility than DCC I would dare say is the AC systems used by Lionel and Marklin, but then you have to accept your track is always going to have a third rail or hidden power feeders in the ties. The AC wiring though is so stupidly easy or non-existant compared to DC or DCC systems its a tempting trade-off for some. For example a wye or reverse loop on a DC/DCC track is a short without the right hard wiring, on an AC three rail system its pretty easy to set up with a few insulating pins. There are also some new systems being tested with radio control and battery powered locomotives but those are so new to the market they aren't common practice yet so don't worry about those yet. Also one note of caution, I have never really read much of John Armstrong's books on layout planning; but the bits I have seen do have some elements that have aged poorly in the last few years. Lots of 18" radius curves, odd operating set ups like switchbacks at otherwise flat industries, etc. He was a pioneer in track planning, but much of what has happened since has grown beyond the foundation he started building (Its like Yoda said about the burdern of masters and watching their students grow beyond I guess...). My recommondation for modern lessons on layout design? Bryon Henderson's LayoutVision website. He has a pretty good grasp on building like a prototype railroad and removing the 'toy train' aspects of many old fashioned layout designs.
Agree with the Armstrong book. Agree with going with DCC unless it's going to be a tiny layout.
Pick an era, a region or purpose for your railroad and your purchases.
Do good work. Tracklaying isn't delicate as eye surgery but you will regret sloppy construction forever. There is no excuse for lumps and bumps, or kinked tracks.
Newbies want everything. The atlas track plan book will show you can have everything in a spaghetti track layout. You can do that, but it won't look good and you won't be happy.
You may run across the term switching puzzles, presented as something you have to have. The are unprototypical games, and not a must have.
Hello all,
Check out the National Model Railroad Association's web page.
Under the "Education" tab, there is a "Beginners Guide".
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"