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Making a mess of Casper yard?

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Posted by Pruitt on Saturday, December 8, 2018 8:43 AM

Tom, 

Still a bit of a mess for sure, but I do see a way forward.

Guy,

Great shots! I hope I can ultimately come up with a finished product somewhere near your quality of work. I appreciate your suggestions, and will incorporate them when I make further attempts.

Meanwhile, I've shifted focus to the engine facilities for a few weeks. I'm better at mecahnical construction than scenery building, I think.

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Friday, December 7, 2018 12:11 PM

Mark,

 

Some suggestions:

 

Even out the color variations they are too stark – too much contrast between colors. Try using subtle colors or simply putting down a light coat of a neutral color over the whole area to tone it down.

 

Ballast in waves or separate passes/coats. I usually will do a rough fill coat to get the levels right, then a finish coat and then usually a touch up coat to tie things together. I let each coat dry overnight to get a good idea of what I have to work with before making the next pass.

 

Right now: I would add another coat of finer material to what you have now. It should tone down and fill in the gaps.

 

More detail and discussion:

 

Method: I would think of the plaster and all the filler as just the first step. Think of it as building in layers. The bottom layers are just creating the basic contours they don’t have to be perfect. The one thing to keep in mind is to not get them too high so that your final coat is higher than you would like. I would paint the plaster first before continuing as was suggested.

 

Moving forward, I would ditch the plaster completely as it is difficult to control while wet, makes a mess, has to scraped or chipped if it gets too high or where it doesn’t want to be, and has to be painted or colored to not show through white in spots that you might miss.

 

 

Examples of the technique:

 

These use real dirt but the ideas are the same for regular ballast.

 

 

 

Here the base coat is down – note  the holes in the coverage.

 

  

 

 

Here is the base coat with the final coat over it...

 

 

 

 

Here is the final coat with some weathering chalks added to the mix.

 

 

 

 

Here is an exaple of final coats mixed between dirt and ballast.

 

  

 

Hopefully this post is helpful...I think you are on the way to getting the look you want ...Keep working on it..

 

Guy

 

 

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

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Posted by E-L man tom on Thursday, December 6, 2018 6:58 PM

Mark,

Like "Ja Bear", I'm not at that stage yet (new layout room just recently built), I have two adages for you.

     1. I consider what you're doing as a work in progress, and,

     2. there is a prototype for everything.

When I first saw your post, I thought "what a mess", but when I saw your progress, I thought you to be on the right track (no pun intended). My thinking is that whatever you do it will be a great looking yard. All you have to do is get the coloring righ (or close) with what you're trying to model. With coloring, with photos, even those can be different, depending on the light at the time. 

 

Tom Modeling the free-lanced Toledo Erie Central switching layout.
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Posted by Pruitt on Friday, November 30, 2018 4:10 PM

hon30critter
Are you shaking the sifter or tapping it? 

Dave,

Every light-colored splotch is below a light fingernail tap on the sifter. I was hoping for a more even distribtion, but...

I'm using a small kitchen (tea) sifter. Either I need a finer sifter or a lot more practice!

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, November 30, 2018 1:50 PM

One of my final processes of track ballasting/weathering is to make several light passes over the track using an airbrush and thinned washes of grimy black (gray, actually) and dirt (tan/burnt seinna color). This blends everything together and adds those ever-present grease/soot/cinder stains.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, November 30, 2018 1:48 PM

I think Dave pointed out something I agree with.

Of course one easy fix for the color and appearance is paint, spray or airbrush.

Of course the best thing is to hunt for photos for the yard you are trying to copy and see how it looks.  Often there are pictures in the Morning Sun Color series for particular railroads which I HIGHLY recommend if you are a fan of a railroad.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 30, 2018 1:48 PM

Mark,

Are you shaking the sifter or tapping it? Tapping gently might help to limit the amount coming through the sifter so you could control the distribution better, and the sifter wouldn't be moving back and forth like it does when you are shaking it. You could use your finger but I think it might be more consistent if you were to use a spoon or some other hard object.

You could also mask the sifter so that it drops the powder in a more limited area.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Pruitt on Friday, November 30, 2018 1:00 PM

Thanks, guys!

The splotchiness is the result of not having enough a fine enough hand on the sifter yet. The light spots are tempra / plaster dirt. I'm hoping that adding grease and other such stuff along the rails will eliminate some of the spotty appearance, along with a weathering wash of {very} diluted india ink between the tracks (idea is to represent rain-washed soot). The rail heads are not yet cleaned, so the dirt appears there as well in the photo.

Again, thanks for all the feedback!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 30, 2018 2:47 AM

Pruitt
I'd like some honest feedback here folks - is this heading in the right direction, or am I fooling myself? Seriously...

Well, here's my honest opinion:

The darker and lighter spots don't strike me as being representative of how most yards will look after years of use. The stuff that discolours the ballast gets deposited a bit at a time from small amounts of stuff being dropped over many years. It usually doesn't happen all at once. Most stains will run along the tracks and be equal on both sides, or in the middle as the case may be. There won't be a dark patch on one rail and a light patch on the other rail, and the stains won't go from dark to light along the rails either.

Having said that, there is an exception to every rule and Ed's picture proves that perfectly. The track on the right has apparently suffered some pretty significant spills. However, that track is an exception, not the norm.

I'm not being critical of your efforts. I do understand how difficult it can be to get the look you want. When I was trying to weather my turntable pit I must have painted the thing a dozen times before I had what I thought was something reasonably representative of an aging pit, and some of my earlier attempts were pretty nasty looking. Your yard doesn't look nasty, it is just a bit blotchy to me.

My 2 Cents

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 29, 2018 12:35 PM

I don't know what yards look like out west, but in the East and in urban areas, I think of yards as basically one color, extremely dark brown, almost black.  Everything looks one color, track, ties, ballast (cinders), and ROW.  Maybe a few green weeds.

If the color of the surrounding land is more tan or reddish, I wouldn't know how to go about simulating cinders and some of the other darker colored elements that cover lighter colored ground.

Maybe modeling western and more rural railroad yards is more difficult?

- Douglas

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, November 29, 2018 6:26 AM

I know it is naughty to say something other than "it looks great", but honestly to me it reminds me of mold growing on a dark chocolate cake.  Maybe my feeling will change when it is set into a broader context.  Sure, of course real yards can look dirty and gungy, but the example in the photo does look realistic to me.  But as some here say, but what do I know?  

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 29, 2018 4:56 AM

Pruitt

I think I'm finally getting something close to acceptable:

The dry tempera paint works great, unlike the Rit dye. I still have some work to do, but I don't think I'll have to tear anything up at this point. One thing I'm going to do is cover that dark brown paint with a tan color that's more in keeping with the dirt around Casper.

I'd like some honest feedback here folks - is this heading in the right direction, or am I fooling myself? Seriously...

 

Mark, it looks terrible.

Which is exactly what you want.

When I look at photos of yards on the prototype, they often look awful because they are sloppy, messy, dirty, ugly. You have achieved total success! And, I mean that as a compliment. I like what I see.

By the way, I for one lost touch with your layout progress for the last few weeks. You didn't transition us from your prior thread to this new one. Glad I found it so I can continue to follow your progress.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, November 29, 2018 2:36 AM

Pruitt
I'd like some honest feedback here folks

Well I have to be honest and state that I haven’t got to this stage, even working on club layouts, so what I say should be taken with a large grain of salt!
 
Looking at the current Casper yard on Google maps, it’s interesting that there’s not one uniform colour, though I would suggest that more browns, tans, and greys would be appropriate.
 
Thanks for this thread, Mark, because I’ll certainly be referencing it when I get to this stage on the Boat Yard. (and then I’ll see how good, I am.)Whistling
 
Keep up the Good Work,
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Pruitt on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 6:32 PM

Ed, tht track on the right kinda looks like my four yard tracks...

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 5:44 PM

Spillage off of recently filled tank cars??  Or perhaps recently emptied?

 

Ed

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 4:14 PM

Pruitt
Ed, your photo didn't come through...

Quite possibly because I forgot to insert the link Embarrassed  Bang Head  Dunce

 

 Rails_0004 copy 2 by Edmund, on Flickr

That's better...

Those grease streaks really have me curious. The traction motor gear cases are closer to the axle ends so that probably wouldn't be the cause. Looking at the other tracks you can see faint grease streaks but nothing like the thick stain on that one track.

Any guesses?

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Pruitt on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 6:34 AM

Thanks Boris, Ed.

I still have to add the details - grease, grain, etc. Plus the weeds and other vegetation.

Ed, your photo didn't come through...

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, November 26, 2018 9:47 PM

I think you are doing fine. My yards are usually so clogged with cars the track rarely sees the light-of-day anyway.

I happened to revisit this photo I took in Altoona back in the late 1990s. Take a look at the grease streaks, the light gray ballast to the left then the almost white ballast in the foreground and what's up with that siding? Black/white and lots of weeds.

Often, track repairs were done in a patchwork pattern so any variety of ballast can be seen at various times.

Again, I think you're on the right track!

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by wojosa31 on Monday, November 26, 2018 9:41 PM

Actually, I don't see anything wrong in the photo. Just keep working with the coloring, add some vegetation, and simulate spilled oils, grain, coal or dry chemicals. Freight yards were far from pristine. 

Boris

 

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Posted by Pruitt on Monday, November 26, 2018 8:57 PM

I think I'm finally getting something close to acceptable:

The dry tempera paint works great, unlike the Rit dye. I still have some work to do, but I don't think I'll have to tear anything up at this point. One thing I'm going to do is cover that dark brown paint with a tan color that's more in keeping with the dirt around Casper.

I'd like some honest feedback here folks - is this heading in the right direction, or am I fooling myself? Seriously...

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, November 8, 2018 2:16 PM

For yards, I would not use cork road bed, which is mainly to give an elevated mainline profiles.  In stead, install yard tracks on a flat surface such as Homasote or sheet cork or foam).

Transition to cork at the edge of the yard by building the base at a slightly lower elevation so the cork surface will match with the surface of the yard.

Upper right of the photo below is the transition from cork mainline to flat yard - smooth, no "ramp" - simply mounted the subroadbed at an elevation such that the surface of the cork was flush with the surface of the yard subroadbed (Homasote):

I would avoid plaster in and around track - it seems like a recipe for mess and trouble.  Use a very find ballast and or dirt around the ties in the yard.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 8, 2018 10:03 AM

Erie Lackawanna in Georgia
I really like the diluted India ink suggestion

That can be some pretty handy "instant weathering" as long as it isn't overdone. Be sure to begin with a very weak solution, especially on plaster as once it has been applied too dark it is very difficult to lighten back up again. A small bottle will go a long way once diluted.

India ink is great on stone work or old concrete and if you have a matte surface (Dullcote) you can use it on plastic structures, too. Again, start off light and add more coats or keep several concentrations on hand in closed jars.

Try it, you'll like it.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 8, 2018 9:52 AM

If the goal was to simply to raise the surrounding ground to make the yard appear to look like it setting on a lower ROW, I agree that using sheet cork would have been much easier.

But I don't see a problem with what you've done.  Once its painted dark and covered in cinders and weeds I think it will look fine.  Any small lumpiness will add to the effect, IMO.

- Douglas

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, November 8, 2018 9:52 AM

It will look fine when done a a bit of spilled plaster on the tracks once cleaned up so that trains will run, once colored and ballasted provides the random lights and darks so hard to plan for on the ties.

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Posted by Erie Lackawanna in Georgia on Thursday, November 8, 2018 9:51 AM

I really like the diluted India ink suggestion (amongst others mentioned of course). Think I’ll pick up some and experiment this weekend.   Might be useful around my blast furnace and coke plant!   Thanks!

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Thursday, November 8, 2018 9:24 AM

Hey Mark 

I think a big part of your concern/reaction is because the plaster is so shockingly white. After you paint it mud brown and add some cinders and debris and an ugly oil stain here and there, you'll feel a little better.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by josephbw on Thursday, November 8, 2018 9:03 AM

I just mounted my track on the homasote, then ballasted it. To evenually connect it to the mainline, I use shimming shingles cut to the right length to match the height of the cork roadbed making it a smooth transition.

 

Joe

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Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, November 8, 2018 8:13 AM

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

Ed's proviso yard shot is very close to what I'm shooting for. 

I clearly should have used sheet cork instead of roadbed cork. 

As some of you indicated, I think I'll go a bit farther with what I'm doing now. I won't expand the area by adding any more plaster, but I'll try to finish the area I've started and see how it turns out. If it turns out ok, I'll proceed through the rest of the yard. If not, I'll take it out and start over.

Thanks again!

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, November 7, 2018 9:44 PM

The double-tracked mainline passing the main station in Dunnville is on cork roadbed (atop one wide 3/4" plywood subroadbed).  Because I intended to add a platform between the tracks, and also ballast most of the right-of-way through town (with perhaps some weeds between the two tracks), I simply mixed some Durabond 90 to the consistency of a creamed soup, then poured it into place.  Once it set, I tinted it with a wash of well-thinned latex house paint...

...it extends pretty-well right through the downtown area....

...but eventually reverts to two distinct roadbeds, with lower ground between them...

Pruitt
....Not looking promising. I'm hoping that after it dries, and I apply some ballast to the track and weathering to the plaster, that it will look better. I'm not really feeling very confident right now, though.....

Since yours is intended as a yard area, I think that it will turn out just fine. 
I'd paint some of those ties in various shades of brown and grey, and when you ballast, go light with actual ballast (if you use any at all - it's awful stuff to walk upon).  You LPBs will much prefer a mix of dirt and cinders, as they're the ones supposedly walking in there to make the cuts or connect the brake hoses.  Don't forget some vegetation, too...not necessarily the high stuff, but weeds will grow just about anywhere.  If you have grain cars with leaky seals, what seeps out will grow, too (if the birds and rats don't get it).

The photo of Proviso Yard, which Ed included, is the look of what I envision yours will eventually be, and the current state of things is nothing that should concern you at all.

Wayne

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