I’m moving into a new home and I have a basement space that is about 15’ x 22 1’2’ for my HO Layout.
Because I have learned some things over the past 39 years I know there are some absolutes that I won’t change like having a Minimum Radius of 28” and a Maximum reach to any turnout or other item I may need to reach of 30”. For the most part I will be the sole operator.
This is my first plan option. Feel free to point out any problems, provide improvement ideas,etc.
In the yard area there is a mainline that continues off layout to points beyond. A siding on the main will serve as an interchange track. Next ther are 2 tracks that will be used for arrival / departure tracks, then 5 sorting tracks and an access track to the engine facilities and turn table.
Top left will have 3 customers and center bottom a car ferry as well as an additional customer or two.
My wife Anne kids and grandchildren like to watch trains run so there are 2 loops. The inner loop begins a 2% grade by the turnout on the right side, maxes out at 7” then a 2% grade back down.
The layout is DCC and ther are 2 switch panels. One by the yard and one by the Ferry.
Since you don't NEED the grade, I'd cut it back to 1%.
Have at least 12" of still-flat track in the space between the cross-over and the start of the grade.
Add another "opposite" crossover, probably towards the front. Also keep it away from grade changes.
You might want a run-around track over by the car ferry. Otherwise you'll have to pre-arrange your train in the yard. Which is OK, I guess.
Ed
Gary, that 15' x 22 space is a pretty good size space, but how are you going to reach the interior of the layout?
Also, for all of that space, the mainline is a relatively small oval. Why not run the mainline around the perimeter of that space and place the yard and turntable inside the mainline?
Rich
Alton Junction
i don't see any reverse loops on the ovals or run around where you could put the engine on the opposite end of the train.
are you going to back the track from the oval into the yard?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Gary, there are two issues which strike me. The first is a train which enters the main line loop from the south, it looks like it will have to be backed up all the way into the yard area after it enters the loop. The second is the crossover on the right between the outer loop and the inner loop. Again, a train will have to be backed into the outer loop from the inner loop.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I would use a different concept. Around the walls with a 24" width, and loops at each end. With a 15' room width you could still have 28" radius at the loops. Have two loops around the walls and have your yard activities and sidings inside the loops. This gives the continuous running you desire with the trains seeming to actually be going somewhere and the yard operations and siding operations you desire. Your current plan seems to waste a whole lot of space. EDIT: I see Brent posted the same time I did. His concept and pictures are a good example of using available space.
Hi Gary, I won't comment too much on your layout as others here are much more qualified and will offer good suggestions. My space (blank canvas) was 15' x 24', very similar in size. I had decided on 28"R curves as well, however just as I was about to start construction I discovered brass locomotives need at least 30" in most cases. So a few last minute alterations were made to the plan and all my mainline curves are in the 32" to 34" range. Just something to consider.
A couple of pics of what I ended up with and I have been really happy with it all these years later.
I am sure it could have been better if I had asked for suggestions like you are doing now. Also if you click on my video link below, you can see how the trains make their way around the room. Here is the earliest one, right after the golden spike. Good luck.
I am sure it could have been better if I had asked for suggestions like you are doing now. Also if you click on my video link below, you can see how the trains make their way around the room.
Here is the earliest one, right after the golden spike.
Good luck.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Many opportunities.
As others have pointed out the interior of the "big loop" will need some sort of access. I would suggest instead a "water wings" plan shaped like a C on its side with the opening at the bottom and a return loop in the lower right area and the lower left. Make it a double track loop to run your two trains and then make the connection to the yard a wye so you can go reither direction to or from the yard with no backing up. You wil still have lots of room for industries.
In the yard, consider that your AD tracks are not really accessible to the classification yard. You have to pull completely out of the yard to move cars between the class yard and the AD tracks or vice versa. The caboose tracks are also a bit inconvienient. Standing in the aisle, the engine will be on the left side of the caboose in the caboose track, but will have to be on right side of the caboose to put it in a track in the yard, which means every time you move a caboose to or from the yard, you'll have to run around it. and there really isn't a good way to do that without losing one of your yard tracks.
I also agree the grade is not necessary. If you wanted a grade a cool way to use it is to make the yard connection to the inside loop and then put a grade on one or both to put the outside loop over the wye (or the wye under the outside loop).
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
richhotrain Gary, that 15' x 22 space is a pretty good size space, but how are you going to reach the interior of the layout? Also, for all of that space, the mainline is a relatively small oval. Why not run the mainline around the perimeter of that space and place the yard and turntable inside the mainline? Rich
Hi Rich, all track and switches are within arm’s reach. Except for the two tracks at the back I can reach everything. A crawl under will provide access to the back tracks which will be covered by mountains.
Although the room is actually 16 1/2’ by 22’ 8” there are constraiints that limit the layout size to what I have in the drawing. There is a 2 1/2’ -3’ isle around the front and sides. At the bottom left of the diagram is the access door which swings into the room.
That leaves me with about 12’ of the two tracks under the mountain. I’m hoping I’ve learned enough about good trackwork to install those straight pieces of track. Now, i know I should NOT say this but I don’t think Ive ever had a loco or train derail on straight track without switches.
I don’t think I can run the main around the perimeter unless I want to install two removable sections at the entry door and a work room located about the center of the bottom of the layout picture.
Thanks Dehusman. I considered two loops (one on each end) Maybe I’ll take another look. Rich also suggested something similar.
Batman, you have two reverse loops? One at each end? Most of my curves are 30 but there are two or three that are 28. Seems most people here feel my initial layout plan may not be the best use of space. THAT is why I asked. I’m not married to anything yet and guess i’ll Design several more before i choose.
Thank to all
Access to the space, but also access to all places where you might need to fix something, even to retrieve a derailed item, is exceedingly important unless you don't mind a growing feeling of dissatisfaction as time goes on. I learned this, and most do eventually. So, if you can stand keeping an open mind, and it seems you do (yay!!), really work that space. It's really quite large. In my own case, with an open concept type of room of that nature, I always go around the walls. Some benches might need to be deeper than others back to the wall, say for a yard, but most can be kept less than two feed deep, and this really opens the center for a nice standing and viewing space, or space for storage, or space for yet more tracks via a peninsula, as Batman has done.
I take it that you already have a strong sense of what your railroad will 'do for a living?' Will it need a looped main, maybe a double main, or just mostly a centeral single stub main with branches to industries? If it were me, I'd twin the main line so that trains can do the gee-whiz passing going the same direction or in opposite directions. If looped, you can let go of the throttle and just let them go so that you can appreciate them.
Yes, by all means keep your curves as wide as you can, but not at the expense of utility in other respects, and not at the expense of fun...your dream.
I won't go on any longer, but I hope you will keep reach and access in mind when you begin to zero in on a final plan. Broad curves can tend to make benchwork deeper. Somewhere there's a happy medium. Whatever that is, you don't want to be climbing up stools and reaching deep into the distant recesses of your scenery in order to loosen and to retrieve an entire turnout that has failed.
Gary, could you post a drawing of the room and the available layout space in the room showing the dimensions and restrictions ?
gary233 I don’t think I can run the main around the perimeter unless I want to install two removable sections at the entry door and a work room located about the center of the bottom of the layout picture.
gary233 Batman, you have two reverse loops? One at each end? Most of my curves are 30 but there are two or three that are 28. Seems most people here feel my initial layout plan may not be the best use of space. THAT is why I asked. I’m not married to anything yet and guess i’ll Design several more before i choose. Thank to all
HI Gary. Yes, I have the layout designed to run continuously, I can have two trains run all day and once I set the speed right they will never come together. I can do switching and train building while that is happening and not get in their way. I don't do operations as I worked in logistics my most of my life. Somehow dealing with an HO boxcar that has derailed does not provide the same adrenalin rush that loading and unloading a chartered 747 in an hour does because they charge you a $1000.00 a minute at the end of the hour if you don't.
I like to sit and have a glass of wine with friends while a train or two are running before we go watch the hockey game on a Saturday night. While I work on the layout I usually have my little BS 4-4-0 going around the layout with five cars behind it and as long as I remember it comes by every six minutes, I'm good.
Making things look as real as possible to the cameras eye is what I really enjoy, hopefully, practice will make perfect down the road. I am glad there are some real capable modelers and photographers on here to guide me along the way.
I had many, many track plans for my space before I settled on the one I did. In the end, instead of designing track plans, I filled the room with the most workable benchwork and made the track plan fit that with a little tweaking. I had three doors, a large opening, a fireplace and a large window to deal with. You can't beat having a good basement.
Ill get a pic of the room and layout dimensions up today some time. Last night I tried to insert 30” radius loops in an around the room design but I can’t seem to have enough space left to put a yard.
floridaflyer I would use a different concept. Around the walls with a 24" width, and loops at each end. With a 15' room width you could still have 28" radius at the loops. Have two loops around the walls and have your yard activities and sidings inside the loops. This gives the continuous running you desire with the trains seeming to actually be going somewhere and the yard operations and siding operations you desire. Your current plan seems to waste a whole lot of space.
I would use a different concept. Around the walls with a 24" width, and loops at each end. With a 15' room width you could still have 28" radius at the loops. Have two loops around the walls and have your yard activities and sidings inside the loops. This gives the continuous running you desire with the trains seeming to actually be going somewhere and the yard operations and siding operations you desire. Your current plan seems to waste a whole lot of space.
I'm going to have to agree with floridaflyer. You could fit so much more layout in that 15x22 foot room. I'd scrap the current design altogether.
Personally I could go with one of two configurations:
E shaped layout or an around the walls as suggested above with a penninsula that has a turn back lobe in the middle. That lobe in the middle could handle a 30 inch minimum radius. You could still have a 30" pinch point walkway on one side and 36" pinchpoint walkway on the oother side. You'd need a liftout bridge if you went with around the walls but tons more running and broad radius curves to boot.
but I can’t seem to have enough space left to put a yard.
If you go with an around the walls design with a liftout bridge, you should have plenty of room on one wall with 22 feet of layout to fit in a nice yard, definitely bigger than the yard you have along the short wall in the original plan, and a double ended yard even better.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Gary, if you look at Brent's layout, he offset the layout about 2 feet to allow for clearance in front of what appears to be two door openings on the right side of the photo. With a 15' room width you could do something similar. There are a lot of possibilities and the guys on the forum will be more than willing to help.
Ok here is the actual space I cam build in maintaining a 2 1’2 foot distance on the door side. If there was an E type configuration the length could increase to 22 1/2’.
I tried maintaining 30” Radius curves on teh mainline by creating two reversing loops on each side but when I try top out functional yard in teh middle, there’s not enough space.
floridaflyer Gary, if you look at Brent's layout, he offset the layout about 2 feet to allow for clearance in front of what appears to be two door openings on the right side of the photo. With a 15' room width you could do something similar. There are a lot of possibilities and the guys on the forum will be more than willing to help.
I wish I could have pushed right up against the wall that has the two doors in it and I would have gone with the "E" shape. Also, on the other side if the fireplace had not been there I would have put my yard along that 24' length. I enjoy having the fire on and it would have been buried with wider benchwork.
In one of the above photos, you can see where I notched out the benchwork to accommodate the door. I will have a siding going off to a cattle pen facility there.
I made the space to accommodate the access to the doors 30" as that is how wide the doors are. The wife suggested it be a little wider but I told her that if they can't fit along there they can't get fit through the door anyway.
To make my ups and downs work out with what I wanted along the way I made the bench on the right higher. It was a moment for me as the climb up was long and constant, once I realized I had enough room to interrupt the descent back down and still be under my 2% max grade I built that bench higher. The space between the benches here is 17" plenty wide enough for me to go back and forth.
gary233 Ok here is the actual space I cam build in maintaining a 2 1’2 foot distance on the door side. If there was an E type configuration the length could increase to 22 1/2’. I tried maintaining 30” Radius curves on teh mainline by creating two reversing loops on each side but when I try top out functional yard in teh middle, there’s not enough space.
You can do what I have (with variations) and push right to the wall on the right side and have a long yard along the top wall. Remember yards don't have to be straight and your benchwork does not need to be all right angles. I might make a bit more clearance for the HWT just in case a new installation gets a random inspection it might not clear. That is just a bigger notch in that corner.
Thanks for posting a scale drawing of the room; that helps immensly. Just looking at it briefly and I can see good possibilities. It does look like an E configuration would work with no lift out (at first blush) with the lobes on the left side - would need to scale things out to see what would fit best. The main wrinkle is the door to the work room that I can see which would either force a liftout or eat up space in the room for a walkway of maybe 30 inches wide.
I take it that each squire is 6 x 6 inches or a half foot across.
That is the same scale I used on this plan I have roughed in using the similar old school paper method - I used 11 x 17 size graph paper:
Click on image to see a larger version.
I like Jim's plan (flipped over) Being lazy I like to see the train go around the layout without getting off my butt. I'm not sure about the dividers.
Yes 6” same graph paper (11x17). I’ve abandoned the original plan, working on an “E” to see if I can get it to work.
BATMANI like Jim's plan
I like Jim's plan too. It's a much better idea than his suggestion of an E shape. Modern track planning thought is to limit the number of turnaround blobs to the minimum necessary since these blobs consume floor space and create unrealistic curves. Jim's plan has 2 (as does mine) which is good, but an E would have 3. Unless you are modeling the loops of the old Clinchfield, the resulting plan is far too curvy. The E also leaves you with no good spot for a yard. A G shaped plan like Jim's own is a far better use of space and creates a nice spot along the long wall for a good length yard.
BTW, an around the walls donut with a center peninsula only has one blob which would be the best case if you don't mind a lift gate or duck under.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I think Jim's plan is a more efficient use of space.
carl425 BATMAN I like Jim's plan I like Jim's plan too. It's a much better idea than his suggestion of an E shape.
BATMAN I like Jim's plan
I like Jim's plan too. It's a much better idea than his suggestion of an E shape.
I guess what I came up with was a sort of lower case e only the middle part doesn't touch the left part. or a G flipped on it's vertical axix.
Modern track planning thought is to limit the number of turnaround blobs to the minimum necessary since these blobs consume floor space and create unrealistic curves.
Yes, all to true, which forced me into the design shown on the plan.
Jim's plan has 2 (as does mine) which is good, but an E would have 3. Unless you are modeling the loops of the old Clinchfield, the resulting plan is far too curvy. The E also leaves you with no good spot for a yard. A G shaped plan like Jim's own is a far better use of space and creates a nice spot along the long wall for a good length yard.
You could do a decent yard with an E shaped layout (E fliipped right for left) but yes, a better yard without a lobe at the end.
I agee. So it's probably an around the walls with a center penninsula with lob with a lift out bridge or some sort of variation of my configuration which allows walk-in and no liftout.
BTW, I had a secondary design of my plan (in my head) which would have extended the layout all the way to the top wall adjacent to the stairs down, but it would have required a lift-out bridge and I also would not have been able to follow trains along the mainline for most of the journey.
Also, not shown on my plan, is a staging yard underneath the main yard; something which should obviously fit but I just haven't fleshed out the best track configuration yet.
Ok who is Jim? Riogrande5761?
Yep.