Confused

[Anonymous]

Hello again, all,

Standard Preface: Please forgive my ignorance.

I am still working on getting my first layout set up and have messed around with a few track plans. Then, I decided to look at the Beginner's pages on the NMRA website and saw a pretty cool track plan that was complex enough to be interesting, would support two different trains (I have a 2-cab-control transformer) and allowed for expansion. But (there's always a but) maybe I am missing something. I know that trains always operate in forward and reverse. However, it would seem that most of the time when they are on a mainline, it would be desireable for them to be moving forward.
My question is this. In the instructions for that track plan, it suggests that the locomotive should go "forward" around the track in a counter clockwise direction. However, I don't see how a locomotive moving in that direction would ever be going forward on the main line.
Is the counterclockwise = forward simply a suggestion to keep the wiring straight and then you drive it the other direction? Am I missing a way to turn the thing around on the track?

If I am missing something rather obvious (which is most definitely possible) then is there a group of track plans that would show a layout and then describe a "typical" operating session on said plans? I don't want to get a really cool looking track plan all figured out, laid down, and then be lost the first time I try to operate it. Driving trains in circles is one thing. Doing spurs and yards is quite another.

Thanks, as always, for any isight offered.

Darrin

[Jetrock]

It would help if you provided a link to the page with the track plan so we could see the plan you mean.

So far as I know, there is no convention regarding clockwise or counterclockwise being "forward." Forward is the way the engine is pointing--or, in the case of a double-ended engine, the end of the train that the engine is on.

When one is switching on a layout, it is generally easier if the sidings are "trailing"--if one can simply back into a siding, rather than a "facing" point siding which requires the use of a passing or "runaround" track to move a car into position to set out on a spur.

Of course, on the prototype, traffic will be moving in both directions at one time or another (real railroad lines are not loops--they go from point A to point B, servicing areas in between) and have traffic moving in both directions, so generally there is some provision for operating in both directions.

Keep in mind that MANY MODEL RAILROADS DO NOT HAVE A LOOP. So there is no "clockwise" or "counterclockwise" involved.

Regarding turning trains around: Many model railroads include some means of turning trains: a reverse loop, a wye, or, in the case of very limited space, a turntable. Wiring a wye or reverse loop requires special wiring.

[IRONROOSTER]

I agree with Jetrock, a link to the page in question would help.

I suspect that they are trying to help you keep it simple. When you wire up two cabs/throttles you want both of them to operate the same way. That is, if the direction switch for cab A run the trains counterclockwise when pushed right, then the one for cab B should also do this. They don't have to, but it would be easier to operate your layout if they do. Also, I personally like the loco when it is on the track closest to me to go left when I pu***he reversing switch left and right when it is right. Again doesn't have to, but makes it easier for me.
Enjoy
Paul

[rrinker]

The NMRA standard for DC power says that if the locomotive is travelling in a forward direction, the right-hand rail should be the positive polarity. Naturally, whichever rail is positive will change when you flipt he direction switch. What is critical though is that ALL feeders be connected in the same way - if you mix them up at some point, you will cause a short circuit.
As for the suggestion to have 'forward' be counter-clockwise, this is just to help keep things in order. There's no rule here, you can set it up either way. And run it either way. Just keep on the connections the same way so there are no shorts. You can put a loco on the track facing either way, it doesn't matter. If it goes backwards and you want it to go forward, just flip the direction switch on the power pack. If the switch does not agree with the direction the loco runs, reverse the two connections on the power pack.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

First off, the track plan to which I was referring. The sad thing is, I MEANT to include this in the first post. [:I]
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/trk_pln2.gif

Thank you all for your input. It all pretty much confirmed my initial thoughts that the "right hand rule" was just to keep things straight and consistent when wiring the layout. Thanks Randy for the clarification.

It still seems to me that in the attached picture, there is a fundamental problem if you run it clockwise for the turnouts to be most maneuverable in that you would have to run backwards down the interchange track (bottom left). But, then again, on the further expansion that they offer, there is a wye added to the mix, which would allow you to "turn around" on the mainline that is connected to the interchange.

Thanks again for clarifying that I can run my trains any darn way I want to. I didn't want to commit some sort of faux pas and have people scratch their heads when they saw my layout.

Once again, the collective intelligence of the forum comes to the rescue.

One other thing, Jetrock mentioned that many model railroads do not have a loop. I have seen those and I understand that, but for whatever reason, my mind does not do well with looking at, or analyzing the running of one. Perhaps a little more effort to understand them would clarify it for me, but there is just something about having the engine on the front, pulling the train that seems right. Probably pretty narrow-minded of me.[:D]

And, finally, IronRooster, I agree with you and have swapped the wires many times to make sure that the switch is on the side of the direction of travel when the train is nearest me.

[Anonymous]

Looks like an interesting track plan - an excellent one for beginners as it will allow running a train quickly (simple loop) as well as some operations (sidings, runaround track) and room for what appears to be a good amount of structures and scenery.

Darrin, always remember that nothing says things are etched in stone. If after getting the track down and operating for a while, you think that a siding should be relocated, do it! It's just my opinion, but I think that layout plan will end up providing you at least several years of enjoyment while also providing you the vehicle to learn things such as benchwork, tracklaying, electrical wiring, scenery etc.

Enjoy!!

[rrinker]

Yes, it would be easier to run trains on that plan in a counter-clockwise direction. Real railroads try to make siding 'trailing point' which means that you pull past the siding, then back in to set out or pick up cars, because it's an easier maneuver. However, sometimes you just can't do that and you end up with a 'facing point' turnout. You have to run around the train and shove the cars into the siding, or in some cases leave the yard pushing a few cars, it's been done, there are pictures to prove it.
All in all, it's a very nice plan to get started with, good operating possibilities so you won't get bored with running trains around in a circle allt he time, and the idea of having that view block in the middle to divide the layout into two distinct parts is great.
Keep in mind that if you add the wye expansion, you will need to do a bit of different wiring. There should be a section there on wiring 'reverse loops' and wyes.

--Randy

[Jetrock]

The purpose of the runaround track in the plan you showed (near the "3" and "4" is to allow an engine to drop off cars that need to be set in a facing point siding, run around them (hence the name) and then pu***he cars into position. The engine can then go back to the mainline, attach to the head of the train and proceed. There is no need to reverse the entire train on a wye or reversing loop to set out cars when you can just run around them.

About shelf layouts: I operate a shelf layout, and you can certainly run trains in both directions with the engine in front--all you need is a runaround track (again) at either end! With some switching, the engine can take its place at the head of the train and proceed in the opposite direction. Some "pushing" takes place when you want to set out cars, which is what happens when real railroads switch cars.

Oh yeah: there are prototypes for "pusher" trains, too: Commuter service lines like Chicago's METRA or northern California's CAPITOL CORRIDOR run pusher trains: there is a control cab on the last car that allows the engineer to operate the engine from the back of the train. Thus, they run "forward" in one direction (engine in front) and then "backward" in the other direction (engine in back), saving the time and effort needed to turn around an engine or switching moves to get the engine to the other side of the train.

Why do it that way? Because that's the way that real railroads do it! Prototype railroads almost never travel around and around in a circle.