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Planning Ridgewood lines

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  • Member since
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  • 28 posts
Planning Ridgewood lines
Posted by agrasyuk on Friday, September 14, 2018 1:07 PM

hello members, 

wanted to share process of planning my second layout and would love hear ideas anyone might offer. first layout (4x7 plus expansions in a one car garage) whas a very good learning experience and provided me with basic skills. fundamental design flaws surfaced pretty quickly and i gained quite a bit of undestanding what is not going to work, and what not oging to be fun. years passed, hoses got moved and now i have pretty decent area of family room for me and kids to build a fun layout .

room i'm working with. colored are permanent sections. dashed are optional modules possible. that will be built who knows when, if at all.  initial rugh layout. green section is double level containing hidden staging. Furniture is pretty much unmovable, i cannot expand into the storage area as it is underneath staircase and simply doesn't have the space vertically

 

I almost finished developing the yellow peninsula when i realized i'm going nowhere. taking another look at the available ara after rereading the chapre on "the square business" from J. Armstrong's book led the current working version below 

V2.1

Laying track in Anyrail. era - modern (with exceptions). track and switches - PECO code83 and walthers curved #7.5 . code100 in helix and staging. Vertical separation between staging and upper levels 9" rail to rail (somewhat tight). grades are below 3% not accounting for curve factor. Removable bridge stretch.

idea of operation: 
1. 80% Railfanning. train leaves hidden staging, climbs the blue line route and starts doing loops in clockwise direction using the orange track. to return it reverses via the yellow section and goes back into staging (perhaps doing a loop).

2. "operation". cargo train arrives from staging to the track next to orange and leaves a cut of cars there for a road switcher to shuttle to and from industrial spurs while observing traffic. downside is only 4 foot of track available. exact shape and location of spurs is still being worked on.

your input is welcome. thanks!

quick 3d refference

 

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, September 14, 2018 4:07 PM

I think you should consider inserting a wye switch at the bottom of the yellow curve, thus adding another track inside the left wye curve.  Then tie it back into the track with another switch.  This will give you a longer run-around--rarely a bad idea.

It's tempting to add more industrial tracks, but that's very much depending on your view of things.

 

I do like the layout a lot, keeping in mind that it's a small industrial railroad.  At least, it looks it to me.  No passenger trains.  No bid diesels.  No consists.  Could be real sweet.

One option would be to have the left be wooded, and install a timber load-out over there.  Then the peninsula would be a small nearby town, with light industry and a sawmill.

 

Ed

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Posted by agrasyuk on Saturday, September 15, 2018 10:56 PM

only 4 foot of runaround indeed bugged me. tried your idea Ed and somehow it didn't jive for me, just didn't look right for some reason (posting it anyways).

 

but then i tried to develop it a bit more and came up with this . and for now its a keeper.  i will probably abandon the idea of interchange on top left corner (itis only aesthetic). 

Orange is a streight through track. green will house incoming cars for switcher to grab from. 

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, September 16, 2018 9:49 AM

Anton,

Yup.  I like that.

But I miss the "middle" crossover.  It seems more railroadlike to have one there.

How about putting a switch in just below the bottom switch of the wye, with the points facing the wye.  It looks like an easy drop-in, there.  And then a matching switch in the next track, of course.

What's actually useful about that is that you still have a small run-around if the upper left tracks of the wye are tied up with a train.

 

Ed

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Posted by agrasyuk on Sunday, September 16, 2018 4:07 PM

took another jab at adding this crossover and plan for some streets and structures while at it. i can live with it, i actually do see a scenario where it might be usefull

underneath the #8 that makes the bottom corner of "the triangle" is a wye switch creating somewhat of an S-curve when crossing from Yellow to green southbound. probably will be ok for switcher to get through. for now i think this is enough to work with, the rest will be figured out during the building phase :)

 

 

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, September 16, 2018 7:56 PM

Looks good to me.

Ya know, most crossovers contain a reverse curve:

 

Yours doesn't look so bad to me.

 

Ed

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Sunday, September 16, 2018 10:31 PM

I like your plan. Looks like good work. Well thought out.

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Posted by agrasyuk on Monday, September 17, 2018 3:35 PM

Flattened the latout into the chart below. Rail is magically connected at the checkers (the bridge). Ideas on how to better fold the chart  are welcome

I wanted to be able to reach the staging while traveling in either CW or CCW direction but that is not going to happen. 

Planning for occupancy detection blocks and signalling is something to keep me busy while I prepare to break ground on benchwork .

 

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by agrasyuk on Tuesday, October 02, 2018 8:19 AM

Finished the new aquarium furniture frame. time to move that thing into it's new place and free the room for construction.

For now zeroing down on the plan

 

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Tuesday, October 02, 2018 9:49 PM

You might find (like I did) that loops can get nasty in several ways very quick. I can elaborate if requested, but my advice is to try and cut down to a continous loop and a helix. No other loops on the whole layout.

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Posted by agrasyuk on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 12:07 AM

Hi. I am sure interested to hear, please do elaborate. 

"Extra loop", I assume light grey section I'm better without?

 

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 10:02 AM

I hadn't really thought about the loops in the lower left until it was suggested, above (partly because it was hard for me to follow--not a good sign).  Yeah, that looks like a problem.

I'd eliminate the grades and keep it flat--just a return loop.  That would leave a way for the orange track to get into the middle.  You MIGHT want to add a tunnel to sort of disguise the loop-iness going on.

I'd keep the blue track, but have it come off on the "right", so as not to go under the main.  THAT track could still easily drop down a bit.  In fact, it's a great place to have a grade that's more scenic than necessary.  I'd also consider a tighter radius to allow some straight track at the end for the industry.

Hmmm.  The "bottom" of the loop--on the drawing.  I think that would be a great place for a tunnel.  First, it can be wide-open to the aisle.  Second, it's a good place to start/imply a much bigger "mountain" range.  Yup, that's what I'd do.

 

Ed

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Posted by agrasyuk on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 5:14 PM

the loop is actually a helix, CCW downwards. blue segment is lower level access track, dashed whee hidden underground. i don't see a way to get to lower level without helix here. as drawn grades are not exceeding 2.5% not accounting for curve factor. from what i can tell 8-10 car train will still be doable with one engine

i understand the difficulty reading the plan, hopefully this render will help visualize better.

here is an updated "folded" "chart of the layout

as to loosing a "loop" i guess i could loose the reverse section (lightest grey, removed in picture below).what would you say is the issue that i'm avoiding by removing it (aside of need for autoreverser). section is marked as 4R in the chart.

smaller radius in the red industry spur i do completely agree with.

i do appreciate your replies, i'm sure it is very possible for me to have a wishful tunnel vision of this layout after staring at it for hours.

thanks!

 

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 5:50 PM

It appears the only reason there HAS to be a grade is because of the arrangement of the blue track for an industry.  If the blue track came off in the direction I suggested, there would be no need for a grade at all.  Or the helical dashed-blue track segment.

Is it that you WANT a grade?  

 

The schematic drawing appears to indicate you're doing a DC layout, what with all the blocks.  I can't recall if you said before.  Will this be DC or DCC?

 

Seems to me you can keep 4R.  That makes the layout, as drawn, an out-and-back with continuous run option.  I rather like that.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by agrasyuk on Thursday, October 04, 2018 2:38 PM

Grade has to be there to bridge 9" of vertical separation between staging and main level. Blocks are  isolated for purposes of occupancy detection. i plan on DCC layout with high level of PC/JMRI integration.

i'm sensing that i'm failing miserably to convey trackplan idea :(. let me try to bridge the disconnect - attached plan with some location markings

so a normal mode of continuous run: train situated in lower staging area leaves the yard and at "staging ->" mark begins to climb on block 21 (blue on trackplan), completes one loop on helix in CW direction, comes under red industry spur and merges from diverging route of switch #1. enters block 2, passes switch #2, enters block 5, takes the crossover(at this point it climbed all 9" from staging to main level) onto block 6, takes either orange or green block, takes the bridge (block1) to complete the circle. continuous "mainline" loop is 1->3->5->6->16->19->1 route.

to get back to staging train will have to reverse direction. back into the white section via the pink (up to 7 foot train possible), or head into the white directly to then runaround via light green industry spur, take the Y , couple to train from the other end and then proceed  14->13,10,8,6,5,3,2, descent into 21 and into the hidden yard. purpose of section 4R (lightest grey) is to reverse trains coming from "Eastbound" location (possible addon modules) back to eastbound and perhaps hold a waiting train.  this is perhaps a redundant route since the same can be accomplished via the Southern bridge route (continuous "mainline")

 in my mind it all adds up. i'm really curious as to what issues you guys see here

click for larger image:

Regards

Anton.

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, October 04, 2018 3:41 PM

Aha!  Yes, that arrow with the word "staging" hints that I was wrong when I assumed it was just a stub-ended industrial siding.

So the helix has to stay.  Then I'd suggest you do all you can to ease access to it.  Open sided scenery at the bottom will be appreciated by people who have to reach into the helix.  Clear acrylic panels on the sides of the helix might be a good thing. I wonder if it would be good to add another circle to the helix to lessen the grade--in for a penny, in for a pound.  Perhaps that would make the vertical separation between tracks too small?

The light tannish section in the upper left:  There's an awful lot of "empty" layout there.  That surely isn't bad, but I wonder if you want it there.  Makes it harder to reach the corner, for one.

I don't think you need detection for the industrial tracks.  At least, not for a signal system.  Perhaps there are other reasons.

This is a terrific track plan, by the way.  If I haven't already said that.

 

Ed

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Thursday, October 04, 2018 9:21 PM

The problems I ran into with loops are the following:

Getting curves and straight turnouts to behave is like trying to mix water with oil

Loops are boring

Loops looks silly

Loops make your trains look silly

Loops mean your train isn't going anywhere in particular

Loops can cause headaches with radius, rolling stock compatibility, etc.

I will confess, on my current layout, I am kinda a hypocrite. However, this is where I get grace. First of all, the main loops will be disguised by a yard that it goes through as well as industries shooting off of it. Secondly, staging and a helix ensure trains will seldom set foot in their neighbor's house I mean in the same stretches of track. Lastly, there will be hidden parts and twists and turns to conceal the truth. Hope all of this helps...

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Posted by agrasyuk on Friday, October 05, 2018 11:27 AM

Thank you Ed. Yes, detection of spurs is not planned, blocks to be detected are the numbered ones. Upper-left section will be reshaped. Additional loop on helix is something I'm heavily considering as it will allow for a very workable 12" of separation. The thing is strange as it may sound I realy hate helixes. The one thing that was warming my heart is that the one loop was not fully covered from view . Compromises... I was considering elevator (masked from view) at some point but it was even worse.

 

BNSF-UP, thanks for the comment. I do agree on the silliness, I will attempt to use scenery to address it. I'm really curious to find out how others would deal with the space allocated.

 

One update that I can make: major milestone achieved :) - my beloved 125Gal aquarium got moved to where it is drawn on the floor plan, positioned into new furniture framework that I built the other week. A lot of water to drain and fill plus lots of heavy lifting. Room for the build is clear!

Regards

Anton.

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