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Yes it's another layout thread from me! OR, Coal mine switching layout?

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Yes it's another layout thread from me! OR, Coal mine switching layout?
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, September 13, 2018 8:24 PM

So I'm wondering if anybody has seen a track plan for a small (like 2x8 or smaller) coal mine switching layout?

I'm thinking about doing one where I move out (in about 9 months) and I figured I could start working on the buildings, motive power, and rolling stock.

Thanks!

Steve

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, September 14, 2018 7:49 AM

Something like this would be really cool if selectively compressed.

Steve

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, September 14, 2018 8:04 AM

https://www.loc.gov/item/wv0288/

Lots of detail.

Gig 'em.

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Posted by railandsail on Friday, September 14, 2018 9:19 AM

650 Ton Coaling Tower


I recall seeing several layouts (regular ones and modular ones) that utilized the 650 ton coaling tower by IHC as the tipple. I have a nice assembled and weathered one if you get interested in that idea.

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, September 14, 2018 10:22 AM

Depending upon your era, the Frenda Mine from RMC December 1976 could be the centerpiece.  Its a kitbash of a common Bachmann coaling tower and the common IHC/TYCO et al freght house.  Basically chop off the top of the coaling tower and plop the freight house on top since they are exactly the same width.

A pic of it is on the cover of the issue, along with an article.

http://trc.trains.com/Train%20Magazine%20Index.aspx?view=ViewIssue&issueId=1528

 I would think on a 2x8 or smaller, you'd want a mine to have a small footprint and be a vertical thing more than spread out.  Maybe add a covered conveyor out front to serve two tracks instead of one.

When I was about 14, I did a similar bash using the same freight house and the TYCO et al coaling tower.  I think the widths were almost exactly the same too.  It would take less space, IMO, than the traditional Frenada Mine.

Chop off the top right at the horizontal member on the big bin.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tyco+coaling+tower&biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=D7Ma7U7FLWB3-M%253A%252Cbdau1VWo1rFBGM%252C_&usg=AFrqEzcBTB1iwA_9w_7KxQjQsWXdiBRGMw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjfven257rdAhVCPN8KHRciBIIQ9QEwAXoECAYQBg#imgrc=D7Ma7U7FLWB3-M:

Freight House

https://www.google.com/search?q=tyco+freight+house+images&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjv9fOm6LrdAhUPc98KHTqvAm0QsAR6BAgEEAE&biw=1366&bih=662#imgrc=55wQcnMBHJaZeM:

 

- Douglas

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, September 14, 2018 10:35 AM

Look at this kitbash!

That's a little bigger than what I'm going for.

I was thinking of using the Walthers Cornerstone, New River Mining, Diamond Coal Corp, Glacier Gravel, and Valley Growers Grain Elevator, to bash a tipple/plant and it's workings.

Steve

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, September 14, 2018 10:40 AM

Too big for your layout, IMO.  Check out the Walthers Coal Flood Loader.  Its more modern era.  You could use some Pikestuff generic walls to bash it into a sort of modern Frenda Mine.

https://www.google.com/search?q=walthers+coal+flood+loader&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SZ35Zrm9jLOE9M%253A%252CLbD-M1pm9Kl8TM%252C_&usg=AFrqEzfexi2Zk2RjPSRQQ_V1iP64RLjX3w&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7wMWK6rrdAhUPWN8KHdCHC9IQ9QEwAXoECAUQBA#imgrc=SZ35Zrm9jLOE9M:

 

 Or use it as is and pretend the main tipple is off of the layout, up the hill.

Again, I think you'd want something more vertical that leaves a small footprint on the layout.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by carl425 on Friday, September 14, 2018 11:43 AM

NWP SWP

Something like this would be really cool if selectively compressed.

 

I think you would find this operationally uninteresting.  With arrangements like this, empties are gravity fed from storage, through the loader, then on down to the loads yard.  The only switching is pushing empties back to storage and picking up loads from the loaded car yard.

Empties are delivered via a bypass track (they use a short section of main here) because a locomotive (especially steam) under the tipple would be a major fire hazard.  This restriction, IMO, eliminates the option of ignoring gravity and pulling the hoppers through with a loco.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, September 14, 2018 12:03 PM

I would think you would want more than just a "loads out" industry if that's all the layout has.  You would have very limited variety of rolling stock, too.

My tannery takes in hides in old "hide service only" boxcars and ships leather goods by boxcar or truck.  It also takes in fuel oil, acid from a chemical tanker and salt from a covered hopper.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, September 14, 2018 12:17 PM

The idea of the layout would be the mine being the primary switching industry. Then again that could become operationally boring.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, September 14, 2018 12:22 PM

NWP SWP
he idea of the layout would be the mine being the primary switching industry.

Then why pick an industry that has virtually no switching as your "primary switching industry"?

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, September 14, 2018 12:59 PM

Isn't every industry a loads in empties out, or visa versa, thing? 

If OP is looking for one industry to justify a variety of cars, I think a paper mill is the typical answer given.

Also, take a look at Tom Klimoski's Georgia Northeastern.  He has a very compact peninsula that supports a marble industry.  Large chunks are loaded on flat cars and in gondolas, chips are loaded into open hoppers, and marble dust is loaded into pressureaide hoppers.

https://www.thomasklimoski.com

Kaolin can support bagged goods in boxcars, granules in short hoppers, and slurry in shorty tank cars.  Short cars are good for small layouts.  

A candy factory can support shorty corn syrup tank cars, short hoppers of sugar, and boxcars to ship out product.

An asphalt shingle factory can support shorty cement hoppers for sand granules, a few tank cars for asphalt, and boxcars for shipping out product.  Maybe even short bulkhead flat cars, like the cars used for pulpwood.

 

 

- Douglas

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, September 14, 2018 2:00 PM

I've seen some MR project layouts that have a mine as the primary industry.

What about a down sized version of this?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by tstage on Friday, September 14, 2018 2:26 PM

So, you want to downsize an 11 x 18 (w/R27" curves) to a 2 x 8...or smaller.  Have you determined how tight the radii of your curves would need to be in order to accomplish that?

Doing the math you would go from 198 sq ft down to 16 sq ft (or smaller)...or, roughly 8% of the orignal layout pictured above.  You'd almost definitely require R15" curves and nothing over R18".  And what locomotives would you plan on using?  Your buildings would - more than likley - need to be partial or facades rather than the entire structure because the footprint is too large.

All important things to contemplate for a project of this scale...or lack, thereof.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, September 14, 2018 2:39 PM

I would have to make concessions and omit details or go bigger than 2x8.

Steve

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, September 14, 2018 2:48 PM

You'd be better off making a smaller plan bigger.  A 2 x 8 plan is going to just be a back and forth layout with no looping curves.  Which is fine.

https://www.google.com/search?q=small+ho+scale+shelf+layouts+images&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5r8CtobvdAhWNdd8KHT5FBv0QsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1366&bih=662

 

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Friday, September 14, 2018 9:33 PM

Maybe try a paper mill?  A mill with one or two tracks on the other end as "the rest of the world."

Inbound would be pulpwood, and/or wood chips, kaolin clay, sulfuric acid, possibly cotton scrap if you're doing high quality bond, chlorine.

Outbound would be not only paper but also tall oil.

And each inbound and outbound has to go to the proper spot.

I think you could put a lot of switching into 2x8 that way.  Then again, I'm going to be putting at least three paper mills on my layout, so I'm biased.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, September 14, 2018 10:40 PM

That's the thing I'm kinda biased towards a coal mine, perhaps I could do  mine and some sort of lumber industry?

Steve

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Saturday, September 15, 2018 3:54 AM

Steven - given your record of project ideas that ended up in smoke, I have to ask you how serious you are with wanting to build a switching layout? Or are you just stirring the pot again, like you did with a number of layout ideas or kitbashing projects that were doomed to fail from the beginning?

If you are seriously pursueing this project, which I doubt, then I´d suggest you collect information on switching layouts. There is plenty of that available online and there are a number of good books around to provide you with  enough "ground" to develop a track plan, which you can present for discussion in this forum.

If you are not seriously considering to build a layout soon - well, in that case I strongly advise you to move on and not waste our time again!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, September 15, 2018 7:52 AM

I am planning to do a mine kit bash sometime soon but the layout won't be for at least 9 months.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, September 15, 2018 11:48 AM

NWP SWP

I am planning to do a mine kit bash sometime soon but the layout won't be for at least 9 months.

I've still got stuff I bought 12 years ago and never got to.  Things change.  Available space changes.  Interests change.  I have learned not to buy stuff I''m not ready to put on my layout right away.

How many of us have a whole shelf of unopened kits?

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by floridaflyer on Saturday, September 15, 2018 12:57 PM

What Ulrich said

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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, September 15, 2018 2:15 PM

Ulrich said it very well!

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, September 15, 2018 2:41 PM

As I said I fully intend to do a mine tipple kit bash, I have the funds to do so now.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, September 15, 2018 3:18 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway
Outbound would be not only paper but also tall oil.

In case I'm not the only one who didn't know what "tall oil" is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_oil

 

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Posted by railandsail on Saturday, September 15, 2018 5:35 PM

I say "don't discourage dreamers",...big or small.

Hopefully we have all experienced it at sometime in our life.

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Saturday, September 15, 2018 6:00 PM

railandsail

I say "don't discourage dreamers",...big or small.

Hopefully we have all experienced it at sometime in our life.

 

We all had our dreams and we all still have, but we don´t advertise them all over the place. " I am planning this, I am planning that" - threads don´t lead anwhere - neither for the OP, nor for the people who take their time to answer. Had the OP spent his and our time on building a small layout instead of publishing his sometimes rather shrewd ideas, he could have a small working layout by now, even if it were just a switching puzzle.

He has definitively spent his credibility with me.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, September 15, 2018 8:17 PM

Uhh, I've done a kit bash of a 150 ton coal gondola, made a spartan cab F45, P42cbu, made a load for a flat car and modeled a pretty reasonable facsimile of a canvas tarp, and I have some more projects in the works. Just sayin!

Steve

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Posted by xdford on Sunday, September 16, 2018 12:54 AM

Hello Steven,

It is hard not to imagine another layout and I had done more than my share of that over the years, none of which got a start from around the wall layouts to climbing grades to heaps of Freemo modules. But I do have a layout. 

There are a couple of alternatives for you.

a.  You could build a couple of Freemo modules all 2 ft wide to 6 or 8 ft long if you wish and change the theme if necessary.  

b. Get a copy of Trainz and build your potential layouts and operate them  ( and yes I have done that with some of my "wonderful" ideas) with a view to visualising them better. You can have a lot of fun with it and it may cement your whims.

c.  Perhaps without being cutting about it, realise that you will build several layouts over your years and you may indeed change the themes or eras (or both) as you go. You seem to be trying to build the lifetime layout and not many of us are as dedicated as the Jack Burgess's of this world to one prototype!

Many modellers here started with British or European models courtesy of Hornby, Lima and Triang, went to US modelling given the good quality of the BB, MDC and Atlas models of the 70's then many have drifted into modelling Australian stuff.  It is part of the journey!

If you do actually make a start, keep your layout barebones to an extent and make your details changeable so if your interests change, it will be an easy process while your direction is gelling to what will give you the best bang for buck!

Ulrich does have a point that the threads are not getting anywhere ( or at least don't appear to be) but is that because at the moment with limitations etc you cannot build something small at your present place? 

Anyway, there are alternatives...

Cheers from Australia

Trevor

 

 

 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, September 16, 2018 7:16 AM

A layout at my current home is not an option, I figured when I move out in a few months I will have space a layout.

The trainz is good and will be an option when I get a new computer.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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