New layout help

[PerryS]

Big Daddy,  I have that book and have studied it.  I just want a few switches for the grandkids to throw.  The Track layout book shows how to splice different tracks together including cutting Kato to length.  I have too much Atlas to ignore it and want to do some of that track laying anyway.  As to space, I am limited to what I said so I can reach the middle from my wheelchair.  Not enough room for a dog bone or I would do that.  I need to maintain shop space in case I decide to build another acoustic guitar or the wife wants another piece of furniture.  Thanks for all the help, I really appriciate it.

[BigDaddy]

Congradulations on your "talent stack" as Scott Adams (Dilber) would call it.

Your photos didn't show the far end of your layout.  It looked like a turnout connected the Kato and atlas and circle the inside of the loop.

A circle inside a circle isn't exacly prototypical either. Not that I am a rivet counter, but I would highly recommend John Armstrong's book, Track Planning for Realistic Operation to give you a feel of how real railroads operate.

Depending on what you use for benchwork, soldering all the connectors may not be good idea.  Expansion of the wood can cause kinks in all soldered rail.

[DSchmitt]

Maurice

Second, you have two different styles of sectional track. While they can be made to work together, I don't recommend it, especially for a beginner. I believe Kato makes a special section called a "transition piece" for connecting the two different types.

In N scale no "transion piece" is needed mixing Atlas80 and Kato. The Kato track is held together by a renovable plastic clip that contains a standard metal rail joiner. 

Remove the clip/joiner and use a metal joiner to connect the Atlas to the Karo.

The only issue is no built in roadbed under the Atlas track.

I have mixed Kato, Atlas80., Peco 80 and Peco55 with no problem. 

Their are small differences in rail cross section but not enough to cause a problem with carefully laid track. 

[PerryS]

Thank you all for your input.  Lots of good stuff here to consider.

 

[bearman]

I cant disagree with you, Rich, but the OP is using Kato Unitrak which may or may not present some unusual issues. I did a quick Goggle search and it looks like the transition between Kato and Atlas is not seamless.  Moreover, if I am looking at the pictures correctly, the Atlas track is not True-Track, which means you will need roadbed for the Atlas track and I have no idea about the thickness of the road bed as compared to the Unitrack.

But, like I already indicated, I think he should take the plunge and see what happens.

[richhotrain]

bearman

I agree that mixing track from different manufacturers is not a good idea, however, if you can find those transition pieces and they do not work to your satisfaction you can always ditch the atlas track, after all the only investment you will have in it are the transition pieces and the time and effort in laying and wiring the track. 

That depends. For example, I use Atlas Code 83 flex track and Peco Code 83 turnouts with no operating problems whatsoever.

Rich

[bearman]

I am a little confused.  You indicated that you wanted to run two trains but mentioned only one DCC equipped locomotive.  So, I guess you are going to purchase another locomotive inthe future.  You do not need DCC to run a layout of your size, but wiring for DCC should be a little easier than wiring for DC.  And you can get a Bachmann E-Z Command DCC starter system discounted at a little over $100, MSRP is $195.

I agree that mixing track from different manufacturers is not a good idea, however, if you can find those transition pieces and they do not work to your satisfaction you can always ditch the atlas track, after all the only investment you will have in it are the transition pieces and the time and effort in laying and wiring the track.

Finally, beware.  If you start down this path you might end up wanting to expand the layout, figure out how to make more space to add more track, buy more locomotives, and buy a bigger DCC system.  I'm sure there is at least a pseudo-medical term to describe this syndrome.

[PerryS]

Hi All.  Big Daddy thank you thank you for fixing my pictures.  I will have to figure out how to post pic's myself.  Thank you all for all the replies.  Let me clear up a few things.  The loco is DCC Equipped according to the documentation that came with it.  That loco has many hours of operation on a DC layout that was given to me that I have since passed on to a friend so I could build my own layout.  Still see no need for DCC on this small layout.  The Kato track as you see it works fine.  I have run my train with all my cars around it for at least an hour or two.  The Atlas track I laid out just to see how it would look.  It would not be connected to the Kato track at all.  Two trains running separately with their own controllers. The Atlas track would of course be soldered at all the joints.  Soldering is not a problem for me.  Lots of experience.  I have the book “Basic Trackwork for Model Railroaders” and have studied it.  The plywood is only temporary.  The bench when done will be longer so I have room for scenery. I love modeling and have been doing it for most of my life.  Mostly WWll armor and planes.  I have built several helis and quad copters, electronics is not a problem.  Last summer I built a 3d printer and am planning to use it with this hobby.  My final layout will be no bigger than 5.5’ x 3.5’.  I have to be able to reach the middle from my wheelchair.  It will be pulled up to the ceiling with an electric hoist when not in use to free up space in my shop.  Big Daddy, you stated “The atlas track beyond the two spurs that curves around to the top doesn't look realistic to me.”  In what way?  Radius too tight maybe?  Again than you for all the replies.  Perry

[hon30critter]

Hi PerryS:

Welcome to the forums and to the hobby!!!    

I'm not an N scaler so I can't offer too much advice, but I would point out one thing I noticed about the Atlas track as it sits in the photos. You have not joined all of the pieces yet. Some are just sitting loosely. Before going any further I would connect the track pieces properly to see just exactly how big the oval will be. I have the feeling that it will be somewhat bigger than it appears now, which is fine provided that it will still fit inside of the Kato loop. You do have some space to play with so you will likely be OK.

You might also want to consider installing a couple of pieces of Lexan or similar material along the ends of the table where the Kato track is very close to the edge. It doesn't have to be very high. All you need is something to prevent the train from falling off the table if it derails right at the edge of the table. Trains and concrete floors don't mix well!!

Keep us posted!

Dave

[Maurice]

Hi Perry! Welcome aboard. Thanks to Big Daddy for finding your layout photos. 

First, you will probably get a lot of replies as there are plenty of people who like to help others here. We might not always agree, but we mostly mean well. 

Second, you have two different styles of sectional track. While they can be made to work together, I don't recommend it, especially for a beginner. I believe Kato makes a special section called a "transition piece" for connecting the two different types. It is better to stick to one style/brand for a beginner layout. I am sure there will be many opinions on which is best. The Kato track is made to be put together and taken apart many times. You can experiment with different track plans and then take it apart to try something else. I will say one thing more about Kato track. Don't use the #4 turnouts, especially as a beginner. The #6 turnouts are very reliable, the #4 not so much.

The two track sets you got gave you two different radius curves. The M1 uses 12.375" (315mm) radius and the V10 uses 13.75"(348mm) radius curves. Generally, the larger the radius you can use the better. Long cars like passenger cars look and operate better on larger radius curves. I have found it helpful to use a mahic marker to highlight the numbers on the underside of the Kato track to make it easy to identify the radius. You can mix them but NOT randomly. If you decide to get some more Kato sets, a V1 or V4 would be good. Both use #6 turnouts. Make sure you check the Kato web site for more information and many track plans. http://www.katousa.com/index.html

Remember: Model Railroading is FUN! Enjoy yourself.

Maurice

[BigDaddy]

I can find photos, but I can't read.   The inner loop, is not a spur but a loop and connects to the Kato track, and will be a separate block, correct?

There is some height discrepancy between the Kato and the Atlas track.  Not an insummountable problem, but something you will have to deal with.

[BigDaddy]

Don't know how you got those links, but here they are

DCC equipped means DCC to me.  edit I did not read the rest of Douglas's comment.  Your DCC will run on DC. 

The atlas track beyond the two spurs that curves around to the top doesn't look realistic to me.   I don't have any suggestions on that nor do I understand N scale radiuses. 

I modified this type of plywood benchwork by using 4" wide strips, 1/8" ply top with 2" of foam on top of that.  The need for that 1/8" is questionable, but it was useful in the area I cut out for a turntable.

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/get-started/2011/11/benchwork-for-your-model-railroad

The reason for 4" was I misremembered this article when I got to Home Depot.

[cuyama]

Doughless

I'm not familiar with that particular Bachmann loco, so I couldn't tell you how they come from the factory.

But Google can. Dual-mode equipped as are many Bachmann engines these days, should run on DC or DCC.

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4851

 

[Doughless]

Hi Perry.

Before we go further.  Question, do your locos already have a decoder installed, "DCC Equipped" or are they ready to have a decoder installed, which is typically described "DCC Ready"

If your locos are already DCC equipped then you will have to have a DCC system to run them.  DC is out of the question, unless the locos have a "dual mode" DCC decoder that allows them to run on DC also.  Usually, however, such decoders don't allow the locos to perform their best on DC, so its probably best to go with a DCC system if the they are already decoder equipped.  Make sure they are in fact DCC equipped and not just "DCC ready".

A DCC ready locomotive is, in fact, a locomotive that will only run on DC until a decoder is installed.

Its a bit of a word/marketing game, but the important part is that you are sure they already have a decoder.  If so, you probably want a DCC system, considering you won't have to wire for blocks as you're currently thinking.

I'm not familiar with that particular Bachmann loco, so I couldn't tell you how they come from the factory.

[RR_Mel]

I get error 404 when I click on your links.

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[PerryS]

I guess my pic link doesn't work.  I'll work on that.

 

[PerryS]

Hi all, I hope you can see my pic's.  I am track planning my first layout.  I bought the M-1 basic Kato oval and the V-10 expansion.   Then I was giving a bunch of Atlas track with some turnouts.  My thought was to have two separate blocks and two trains running at the same time.   I would like to have two spurs using the turnouts so I have a couple switches to operate on the Atlas track and one spur coming off the Kato track to the outside giving me 3 switches.  I would like a tunnel on the left end.  Time period is WWll and location is southern Utah canyon lands.  My locomotive is a DCC equipped Bachmann N 51459 Baldwin 4-6-0.  I don’t see any need for DCC on this small layout though.  I might if the loco had sound but it doesn’t.  My limitations are space and my ability to reach the middle from a sitting position (wheelchair).  Please look at this temporary layout and tell me if you see any potential problems.  Once I have the layout planed I will build the benchwork using 1x4s and foam.  Any input would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.