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Which comes first: Ground Cover or Ballast?

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Posted by Harrison on Sunday, August 5, 2018 2:09 PM

I do the scenery first, than the ballast, because thats how the prototype did it. after I will go over with some weeds to sort of blend it in.

Harrison

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Posted by bearman on Saturday, August 4, 2018 10:01 AM

I have always ballasted first, mostly becuase I use 70% alcohol as a wetting agent on the ballast and I dont want it seeping into any scenery and loosening it.  Additional I like to use a sacrificial piece of cork roadbed to keep the bottom part of the ballast line as crisp and neat as possible.  Pinning the roadbed on top of sceneary would not be practical.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by FRRYKid on Thursday, August 2, 2018 12:07 PM

riogrande5761

I put ballast down last as that seems to be what real railroads too.  It spill out along the ties over vegetation etc.  That seems to be the most logical method, at least if you are modeling a modern well maintained and groom mainline.

Now if it is more neglected, the vegetation may stort to cover parts of the ballast so ground cover after ballast then.

There may be a right or wrong answer depending on what you model.

What I am modeling is a early to mid-70s yard area with a mainline and a car ferry spur. By the desccription, it sounds like I want to put the ground cover down first. As I am still working to rebuild a section from my old layout for the new one, it will be a few weeks before I am ready.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 11:01 AM

The chicken ... no, wait, the egg, no wait ...

I put ballast down last as that seems to be what real railroads too.  It spill out along the ties over vegetation etc.  That seems to be the most logical method, at least if you are modeling a modern well maintained and groom mainline.

Now if it is more neglected, the vegetation may stort to cover parts of the ballast so ground cover after ballast then.

There may be a right or wrong answer depending on what you model.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Medina1128 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:42 AM

Personally, I prefer to ballast first. Once the ballast glue is dried, I mask the edges of the ballast, then add the ground cover, remove the masking tape, then glue the ground cover. This keeps stray ballast from ending up in the ground cover.

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Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, July 30, 2018 4:21 PM

selector

try to keep the grains below the sweep-arc of the points rails.  ... ballast matching the tops of the ties in height.

As I understand the idea, that is the exact intent. It accomplishes both of those without worrying about gimming up the points with glue or blocking them with ballast above the ties.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by selector on Monday, July 30, 2018 3:03 PM

Hmmm...I don't see the merit in the tape idea unless it is to keep all but the first layer of ballast grains in place.  I am careful and only tape over the throwbar and headblocks, and try to keep the grains below the sweep-arc of the points rails.  Once the grains are impregnated with glue, I remove the tape, spray the head block and throwbar with alcohol and move them, looking for problems in the points sweep. I also spray the joints between the points and the closure rails to help rid them of any glue that may have wicked itself into them.  But my aim is to have a properly ballasted turnout with ballast matching the tops of the ties in height.

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Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, July 30, 2018 10:30 AM

richhotrain
 
FRRYKid
  

That's why I'm planning to use the duck tape trick that I have read about on the turnouts. 

 

 

I wouldn't use duct tape on the turnouts because it will leave a stciky residue and cause stalls for lack of electrical contact. Better to use painter's tape, sometimes called "blue tape" which will not leave a sticky residue.

 

Rich

 

On the bottom of the turnout? The tape will attach to the plastic ties on the bottom of the turnout to hold the ballast so it doesn't get thick enough to foul up the points. The tape will be removed from the throw area as to not freeze that.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 30, 2018 3:39 AM

FRRYKid
  

That's why I'm planning to use the duck tape trick that I have read about on the turnouts. 

I wouldn't use duct tape on the turnouts because it will leave a stciky residue and cause stalls for lack of electrical contact. Better to use painter's tape, sometimes called "blue tape" which will not leave a sticky residue.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by FRRYKid on Sunday, July 29, 2018 11:59 PM

kasskaboose

I would proceed slowly (note to self) with the turnouts.  Pls don't ask how I know about ballast getting into turnouts.

That's why I'm planning to use the duck tape trick that I have read about on the turnouts.

Lone Wolf and Santa Fe

I do the ground cover first because I do it as soon as I paint the ground. I save ballast for last because once you glue it down it’s pretty much there to stay and I like to wait until I have the track trouble free. It's also good to wait to ballast until after you have all of your grade crossings in.

As I do have a few grade crossings that I know will be going in, it might be the best idea to do the ground cover first. Of course, that means that I will need to make enough ground foam to cover somewhere between 20-25 sq. ft. of layout. (Yes, I have plenty of foam, a number of bottles of paint, an available blender, and a good set of instructions.)

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, July 29, 2018 11:18 PM

However you do it, I believe that the ground cover came first in the real world, so I would like my ballast to look as though it was put on top of whatever was there before. That doesn't mean that you can't put the ballast down before the scenery, but you may want to leave the finishing touches on the ballast until the scenery is done.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, July 29, 2018 4:42 PM

Either or either for me. No matter how you do it touch ups will be required. I often find model railroaders have been too neat and tidy in a lot of things they do. Railroading is a dirty messy business by nature, so, make it so, on the layout.

I once had a guy ask me what I was going to use to fix all the dents and gouges in all the foam on the layout. He was most concerned about the damage that had been done. I said, "I don't, it is just more natural looking with them and will have dirt sprinkled on them like the rest of it".

I was building a level crossing and had put down these extra 8 x 8 beams you see on the left in this photo while I was working on it. When cleaning up I thought they looked good laying there and have not picked them up to this day.

  

 

Brent

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Sunday, July 29, 2018 4:26 PM

I do the ground cover first because I do it as soon as I paint the ground. I save ballast for last because once you glue it down it’s pretty much there to stay and I like to wait until I have the track trouble free. It's also good to wait to ballast until after you have all of your grade crossings in.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by kasskaboose on Sunday, July 29, 2018 4:16 PM

It doesn't matter what comes first--ballast or ground cover.  I recall someone asking this same question earlier.  Am I wrong?

I would proceed slowly (note to self) with the turnouts.  Pls don't ask how I know about ballast getting into turnouts.  Oops - Sign

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, July 29, 2018 1:29 PM

On mainlines I do scenery first, on sidings I do ballast first.

.

This makes the mainlines look better maintained and the sidings a bit overgrown

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by selector on Sunday, July 29, 2018 1:18 PM

I have done it both ways and the upshot...for me...is...it don't matter none.  Mix it up if that floats yer boat. 

I usually do the ballast first, but I often find myself wanting to extend a scenery session and I go past the last bit of freshly laid ballast.  When that happens, I have to go back and ballast behind me.  It all looks the same once I am done.

 What could made the difference is the application of 'greenery'.  If you apply ground foam bits near the ballast, you'll find some of it appearing to grow up from under the edges of the ballast.  Very natural.  The other way, it appears as if the ballast were the last application; very anthropogenic.  And also natural.

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, July 29, 2018 12:33 PM

For me, ballast first.  I am still pondering some scenic features not to mention streets and structures, so ground cover can wait.  Even on those scenes where the scenery is in, the ballast came first.  

Dave Nelson

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Which comes first: Ground Cover or Ballast?
Posted by FRRYKid on Sunday, July 29, 2018 12:29 PM

This one is very simple friends and probably covered before, but: Which do you do first: Ballast or ground cover? For the prototype and timeframe that I model the ends of the ties are covered if that changes anything. I also am going to be using the duck tape trick on the turnouts. If there is anything else that is needed, please let me know.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.

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