Double-deck benchwork

[rrinker]

Of course, I have not even finsihed the first stage of my layout and am already thinking about the next phase of expansion. The rest of my layout will be double-decked, HAS to be, to fit on my space.
What I want to do is make it all free-standing. It's linear, around the walls, with no free-standing pennisulas (no room, not if I want to have aisles that 'normal' people can easily walk though). I would prefer not to attach anything to the walls. For a single deck that's easy, just put legs on it, add some verticals at the back to hold up the backdrop, and go. I am generally using lightweight construction techniques - mostly extruded foam. So the weight load of the upper deck will be minimal. Has anyone else attempted to build something like this? I was considering just using heavier verticals and mounting the upper deck like a shelf. Maybe 2x3's or 2x4's - the 1x2's and 1x3's used to hold up the lightweight backdrop are clearly insufficient. Deck seperation will be 18". Lower deck 24" wide or less, other than possibly in the major yard area. Upper deck 18" wide or less.

--Randy

[orsonroy]

All you need to do is to extend the rear legs of the lower deck up to your upper deck backdrop height, and hang shelf brackets from them to support the upper deck shelf.

Freestanding, 2x2s won't be strong enough to support a deck by themselves. However, if you build the framework so that it's tight between the floor and ceiling, then they'll be fine. However, if you're against building directly to the walls you'll probably be against this idea too. In that case, use 2x3s.

As for what to build the deck out of, I'd go with 1/4" Lauan plywood and 2" foam. My entire (three deck) layout is built out of 1/4" ply and 2" foam, and it works great.

Let me know if you'd like to see photos of my layout, and I'll pass along a few offlist.

[rrinker]

Yes, I would definitely like to see some pictures of how you built it.
What I did so far just uses the 2" foam on top of a grid of 1x4's, no plywood under it. I aven't seen the need yet to put the plywood under, and since I install my Tortoise switch machines from the top, I don;t need the plywood layer to support them.

--Randy

[raynbecky]

Hey Ray, ditto for me, please send me some pic's too. I have been struggling with how to do this myself and still have it strong enough to withstand normal wear and tear.

Thanks!

[e-mail]

[Jacktal]

In such a case,I would consider angled iron as a good support.I would use 1 in. angled iron (1/16 in. thick) and fabricate L shaped supports that I'd bolt to the existing layout legs.I'd make them from the floor to your shelf for added strength.These upside down L shaped brackets could support a substantial weight without the need of cross braces between your two levels,which I believe you don't want.Angled iron is fairly cheap and a welder will make these brackets for you in a matter of minutes.Just an idea........

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jacktal

In such a case,I would consider angled iron as a good support.I would use 1 in. angled iron (1/16 in. thick) and fabricate L shaped supports that I'd bolt to the existing layout legs.I'd make them from the floor to your shelf for added strength.These upside down L shaped brackets could support a substantial weight without the need of cross braces between your two levels,which I believe you don't want.Angled iron is fairly cheap and a welder will make these brackets for you in a matter of minutes.Just an idea........

Plain old angle iron won't work.

Before I settled on using U-channel L brackets, a buddy and I went into Home Depot and "stress tested" every angle iron and shelf bracket we could find - by stomping on them! Angle irons SEEMED like a good idea because of their shape, but they folded up as soon as I put all of my 210 pounds on them. The U-channel brackets are rated for 300 pounds apiece, and were the only ones that didn't collapse after a bit of abuse. And yes, I did pay for all the bracket components we destroyed!

Some modelers have built their own L brackets using angle iron and 1x2s, but this method is actually more expensive, more time consuming to assemble and install, and weaker than commercial metal shelf brackets. Give me simple, cheap, and strong any day!

[rrinker]

Well, the only problem is that to use the commercial shelf brackets, I'd have to install a wall to attach them to.
I'm beginning to think a simple stud wall, no drywall, would be the easiest thing of all. 53' wall, studs on 16" centers, that's only 40 studs, plus header and footer.

--Randy

[orsonroy]

And you don't need to build the studwall out of anything bigger than 2x2's, keeping costs and weight down significantly.

[rrinker]

Now there's a good idea, if it is up to code here - I'm thinking along the lines if we ever move, and remove the layout. If the walls are suitable for drywalling it could be beneficial in selling the house, of it would have to be all torn down, it would be a liability. The benchwork bits themselves I plan to continue to build the way I built the existing ones, as individual boxes that are bolted together. That way if I HAVE to take it down, a few cuts between sections and remove the bolts and off it goes. I'll run this idea past my uncle, he is in the construction business. Actually, he will probably be involved in building anything like this, as I've only built plain straight walls before, never framed windows or other obstacles.

-Randy

[Anonymous]

Well now I am thinking about going double deck. Currenty I have a around the room layout that is 12X8. I built everything in 2x4 foot modules except for the corners that are 2X2. Most of the layout is 3/8 ply, only the new addition has foam on it (1"). So no how do I convert this layout ?? Part of the reason I want to go to the 2 level is because I added a 8X2 addition to the front of the layout so now its a 12'x4' which is to deep and looks odd.
The issue is that I want to keep some of the modules and not rebuild them, but others I do. The layout is based on the City of Portland, Maine and the switching around it. But because of poor design its a switching nightmare. It can take 2-3 hours to switch all the cars out.

The major modules are Waterfront (2) 2x4, Papermill (2) 2x4 and yard and round house 4x8.

I have some pics on my site
http://community.webshots.com/user/nhguy21

Any idea's ??

Josh

[lydnis]

I have addeed a second level to my layout which is free standing. I used 2/3 pine board scewed flat to th back of the main frame with sheetrock screws. Shelf brackets were used to support 1/4 inch ply wood. Bracket were 12 inches long and shelf was 14 inches deep. So far I hhave used straight plaster for senery with no support problems. . Maybe I,m just lucky

[Anonymous]

lydnis, what are you using to run trains between the two levels ?? I am still looking into this solution. I have the equilant of the elevator already, but am considering both the helix and the nolix. I don't have a lot of room.

The top will be a section of the mainline between 2 towns along a river with a branch coming off to serve a paper mill.

The bottom will be a main line into a yard with engine services and a small branch to the wharf areas.

Josh

[jwar]

A friend of mine used 2X3 studs for the uprght support, then screwed an angle iron to the side of each upright. He built the upper shelf and then mounted a shelf above that for storage using plastic storage boxes. Finished it of wit a cieling curtain to the lower edge of the top shelf. Is very strong, looks neat and a complement to his train room.

Theres a ton of options go with what works for you...John

[CFournier]

How do you go from level one to level two? I don't want a helix nor do I want an elevator. Would a 4% grade switchback type of elevation work on a strech of 16 feet in a L shape?