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Layout Room Questions

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, June 6, 2018 6:20 PM

riogrande5761

Are there any drop ceiling LED lighting panels that are fairly economical that can be suggested?

 

 Dave Jones at EEVBlog put soome in his lab, although he's in Australia and who knows if you cna get the same ones he did in the US. First one I looked up, a 2x3 panel is $49, and a 2x4 panel is $95, both are dimmable as well. Found another site with 2x4 units priced from a low of $65 to a high of $100.

                                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:32 AM

riogrande5761
Are there any drop ceiling LED lighting panels that are fairly economical that can be suggested?

Go back and check out Brunton's thread on Room Lighting, in the layout forum, and also his current thread, he shows some lighting panels he ordered.

I remember the LED ceiling lights were discussed in the Room Lighting thread.

Mike.

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:18 AM

Southgate

Whatever you do for your backdrop, take the time to get it done, and done RIGHT, before you proceed with the rest of the project. Reaching over a layout in any stage of progress to work on backdrops is a major pain, one that I am currently going through as I type, cuz it turns out I didn't like my original work.

Dan

 

Very good advise. I did this and I am sure glad I did.

  

Where appropriate, "stall mats" are great for standing on. I recently hit some old muddy ones we had with the pressure washer and they are like brand new. I put them in my workshop to stand on and my feet and back have not stopped thanking me.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, June 6, 2018 9:31 AM

Are there any drop ceiling LED lighting panels that are fairly economical that can be suggested?

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, June 6, 2018 7:06 AM

 My basement floor is poured concrete. Once the existing ratty carpet is removed, along with all the other stuff, I intend to use one of the epoxy products to cover it. Where the layout goes will otherwise be the bare (now epoxy coated) floor. Where people stand and walk, I plan on using carpet tiles. They are cheap (especially if you doon;t care if they are all the exact same color - a mixed effect can be quite nice), and if any get messed up because scenery materials dripped on them, you can just lift out the dirty one and put a new one in place. Anything but standing on bare cement.

 Layout lighting will be LED strips. Room lighting will be LED panels in the drop ceiling. The planned layout is double decked, so the upper deck will form the lighting valence for the lower deck, and then I will have a valence over the top deck. The layout lighting alone should be enough to run trains, the room lighting will be for construction adn moving about in the basement, I need to get the layout plan fairly finalized before installing the room lighting so I only place lighting panels over aisle and other open areads - with a double deck plus top valence, even though my ceilings are fairly high, a light right over the middle of a benchwork section won't be of much use.

                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by E-L man tom on Tuesday, June 5, 2018 7:57 PM

carl425
 
E-L man tom
I'll use throw rugs on the floor when layout construction is done.

 

Throw rugs are a trip hazard for someone that is distracted by something like a cool model train passing through nice scenery.

Never mind the potential for injury, you don't want some clumsy old dude crashing down on your layout.

 

I want to use rugs that are large enough to be contiguous enough to cover a traffic area without having a seam. Also will use throw rugs that won't fold and bunch.

Also, a correction to my previous post:  the flooring IS wood, but again, quite durable and a "finish" on it that resists stain. A good feature for a klutz like me, who has a tendency to be spill-prone.

Lighting will be behind a valance, in a "shadow box" attached to the stanchions (or wall pilasters) that hold the backdrop up.

Tom Modeling the free-lanced Toledo Erie Central switching layout.
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Posted by Southgate on Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:58 PM

Whatever you do for your backdrop, take the time to get it done, and done RIGHT, before you proceed with the rest of the project. Reaching over a layout in any stage of progress to work on backdrops is a major pain, one that I am currently going through as I type, cuz it turns out I didn't like my original work.

Dan

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Posted by azrail on Thursday, May 24, 2018 4:13 PM

Those interlocking rubber mats build up a lot of static electricity (esp in dry climates)-take this from personal experience. This can be a problem with delicate electronic devices, such as DCC.

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Posted by MGAMike on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:47 PM

If you use LED Strip Lighting, how will you mount them, and how far above the layout will they be mounted?  I can see them being really useful to light lower decks, but if you mount them on a 96" ceiling and your layout is at 50", that seems pretty far away for the strips.

My intention was to use LED recessed can lights in a suspended ceiling in a pattern to match the layout footprint.  But, a few good points were made about what happens when I decide to change up the track plan.  If I light the room for just being a room, then add a valance and valance lighting to light the upper deck of the layout, it seems to me to be overkill, but I do understand the idea behind it.  Oh well, lots more thinking and planning to do!!  Of course, sometimes, that is part of the fun!!

Thanks! 

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Posted by carl425 on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:26 AM

E-L man tom
I'll use throw rugs on the floor when layout construction is done.

Throw rugs are a trip hazard for someone that is distracted by something like a cool model train passing through nice scenery.

Never mind the potential for injury, you don't want some clumsy old dude crashing down on your layout.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by E-L man tom on Tuesday, May 22, 2018 8:03 PM

I'm building a dedicaed train room too.

For flooring, I'm going with an engineered vinyl that looks like wood. Its very durable and is stain and scratch resistant. I'll use throw rugs on the floor when layout construction is done.

For a backdrop, I'm undecided on whether to put it on the walls or go with a tempered hardboard, which I have done on my previous layouts.

For lighting, I will definitely go with LED strip lighting. Not sure how I will connect/control them yet, but they will have dimmer capability. I definitely would not put the lighting in the same foot print as the layout, as was previously mentioned, if you want to change the layout you're stuck with the old pattern.

Construction on my new layout room is a couple of months away. completion will probably be done by mid to late summer. Hopefully I can get the benchwork built before the weather gets nasty this fall.

 

 

Tom Modeling the free-lanced Toledo Erie Central switching layout.
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Posted by MGAMike on Tuesday, May 22, 2018 1:53 PM

Thank you all for your advice and opinions!  Alot of information here to stew over and I appreicate it.

We will be breaking ground on the two story garage in the first week of June and I hope to be starting benchwork sometime early this fall.  I have to finish the inside of the garage first.  

Thanks again for the info!!

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Posted by willy6 on Saturday, May 19, 2018 10:03 AM

Lighting, I used 3 track light fixtures each having 4 LED floodlights and wired them to a dimmer switch. Looking back, I should have wired each track light fixture to indiviual dimmers. Someday I might get enough energy to get into the wall and change that.

Being old is when you didn't loose it, it's that you just can't remember where you put it.
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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, May 19, 2018 8:41 AM

So many good comments!

I think I would not put any carpeting in the room.  It collects dust, smells, and small parts.  And can re-release the first two.

I would have a smooth cleanable floor.  Wood.  Linoleum. PAINTED concrete.  We actually have porcelain tile on our main floor.  No, not little 4" white squares.    

If you want/need foot cushioning, those rubber mats sound real good.  That's why you see them in work places.  They'll still collect "dust" (just observe one when you pick it up), so you have to be a bit careful when you remove them for a good vacuuming.  Which, by the way, you would ideally do with a LONG hose, and the vacuum exhaust outside the room.  Actually, one of those whole-house vacuuming systems would be PERFECT for a train room.

 

Ed

PED
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Posted by PED on Saturday, May 19, 2018 8:17 AM

For lighting, I used hanging LED light fixtures from Home Depot. I discovered that placement was critical to avoid shadows. If they are too far back from the front track, the train on the front track can have a strong shadow that is very ugly. I wound up hanging my lights just above the front track so there are no shadows on the viewing side. The trains toward the back side may have shadows but the hadows are on opposite side of the viewer.

Paul D

N scale Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Southern Oklahoma circa late 70's

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Posted by Santa Fe all the way! on Friday, May 18, 2018 10:19 PM

If you go with LED strip lights, get 5050 or larger. When I started they only had smaller ones available and they didn't put out enough light, even though my backdrop is only 20" high. 

Come on CMW, make a '41-'46 Chevy school bus!
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Posted by joe323 on Friday, May 11, 2018 5:42 PM

I think I need to clarify a bit the SIW is located in a spare bedroom so it is climate controlled and not near any major water source.  However had I known about waterproof laminate before the remodel I would have used it.

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by bearman on Friday, May 11, 2018 8:00 AM

I dont know if you have considered this issue, but climate control is important.  Depending on where you live, an air conditiioner and/or a heating duct connected to your central heating may be in order.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, May 11, 2018 6:56 AM

I did the same, covered the basement wall (poured concrete), using 2"x2" furring at 16"o/c, rigid insulation between, covered with dry wall, back drop painted on the finished drywall.

Mike.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, May 11, 2018 6:44 AM

kasskaboose

Let me answer 1 and 3 since I had that added to my new layout:

1. Interlocking rubber mats (like they have in some gyms, classes, etc.) is perfect.  I plan to get them once all done with stuff falling and banging into things!

I am pretty risk averse and found a bunch of dark gray interlocking rubber mats at charity shops and have them ready for use in a new layout room. 

Regarding stuff falling, like models, I cringe when I see layouts with track near the edge and nothing to stop derailed trains from falling to the floor.  I prefer to have some sort of guard rail, even if that means having a masonite fascia extend a little above the edge, something to stop trains from going over the edge, but not sticking up too high as to block the view much.

3.  Your description is exactly the type of layout I have.  I would not put the backdrop directly on the wall.  Instead, put 1x2's every 16" vertically  around the layout.  Then, drill the masonite to the 1x2s and use drywall patch to hide the seams. 

I did exactly that in a basement which had no drywall but with drywall, I prefer to paint on it.  You can always primer over it and paint it a neutral color if you need to sell the home and make it appealing to buyers.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:13 PM

I use a cheap area rug from Ikea, like 5x7, in my work area for my modules.  Just a black and white checker pattern.  Its pretty low pile, so stuff doesn't really disappear into it.  Bitty parts show it pretty well on the white squares.  I've had glue, plaster (both dust and mixed wet), paint, India ink-alcohol mix, whatever you can think of...geez molten solder even drip on it.  No worse for wear, surprisingly.  If it ever gets ruined, well, no big deal.  It was bought with potential destruction in mind and I'm pretty sure it was only $40 in the first place.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, May 10, 2018 8:50 PM

Let me answer 1 and 3 since I had that added to my new layout:

1. Interlocking rubber mats (like they have in some gyms, classes, etc.) is perfect.  I plan to get them once all done with stuff falling and banging into things!

3.  Your description is exactly the type of layout I have.  I would not put the backdrop directly on the wall.  Instead, put 1x2's every 16" vertically  around the layout.  Then, drill the masonite to the 1x2s and use drywall patch to hide the seams. 

Good luck!

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Posted by bogp40 on Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:25 PM

riogrande5761

 

 
bogp40
Doesn't pertain to the OPs 2nd floor room,

 

So what?  My comment was not aimed at the OP.  I was in response to a post just above mine regarding using laminate and assume posted as option for layout to readers in general.

 

 
but to explain the water/ moisture issues with laminate flooring. Install these laminate floors from various manufactures on a regular basis. Most now are offering water proof versions in interlocking T&G vinyl. May be something to look into for damp or floors prone to water/ moisture. Many basement floors even sealed and using flooring foam underlayment can still be affected my moisture in and within the slab.

 

In my last townhome, one room in the basement had laminte flooring installed a not long before we bought it, possibly earlier in 2013 or 2012 - so fairly new.  I don't know if it was waterproof but it got soaked when the sump pump failed and we ripped it all out and threw it away.  Otherwise we could have had a mold problem develope - and we wanted to be proactive.

As many know, basements often have a potential for water issues so it's best practice to plan flooring for that possible event.  I would guess even water-proof laminate, even if it resists issues with water, what about all the places water can under underneath and how do you get it all dried out if flooded and no mold?  As you say, many basement floors can be affected by moisture to some degree.

 

Nothing to do with your posting any off topic, just making statement that my following comments don't pertain to the OPs original post of 2nd floor room. My post was to continue your explanation of newer waterproof flooring for wet or damp locations.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:06 AM

bogp40
Doesn't pertain to the OPs 2nd floor room,

So what?  My comment was not aimed at the OP.  I was in response to a post just above mine regarding using laminate and assume posted as option for layout to readers in general.

but to explain the water/ moisture issues with laminate flooring. Install these laminate floors from various manufactures on a regular basis. Most now are offering water proof versions in interlocking T&G vinyl. May be something to look into for damp or floors prone to water/ moisture. Many basement floors even sealed and using flooring foam underlayment can still be affected my moisture in and within the slab.

In my last townhome, one room in the basement had laminte flooring installed a not long before we bought it, possibly earlier in 2013 or 2012 - so fairly new.  I don't know if it was waterproof but it got soaked when the sump pump failed and we ripped it all out and threw it away.  Otherwise we could have had a mold problem develope - and we wanted to be proactive.

As many know, basements often have a potential for water issues so it's best practice to plan flooring for that possible event.  I would guess even water-proof laminate, even if it resists issues with water, what about all the places water can under underneath and how do you get it all dried out if flooded and no mold?  As you say, many basement floors can be affected by moisture to some degree.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by SouthPenn on Thursday, May 10, 2018 8:46 AM
South Penn
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Posted by bogp40 on Thursday, May 10, 2018 8:12 AM

riogrande5761

My only caution with Laminate flooring is if it gets wet and not wiped up quickly, it can swell and deform; at least that happened one the first floor of my townhome.  Building a layout and especially scenery "may" be messy at times so it's best to plan for that.

For a layout room for sure don't use thick carpet - what onewolf recommended is more like an indoor/outdoor carpet and the 2x2 squares seem to be almost universal in offices these days and I'm guessing you can find it economically.

 

Doesn't pertain to the OPs 2nd floor room, but to explain the water/ moisture issues with laminate flooring.

Install these laminate floors from various manufactures on a regular basis. Most now are offering water proof versions in interlocking T&G vinyl. May be something to look into for damp or floors prone to water/ moisture. Many basement floors even sealed and using flooring foam underlayment can still be affected my moisture in and within the slab.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, May 10, 2018 7:55 AM

My only caution with Laminate flooring is if it gets wet and not wiped up quickly, it can swell and deform; at least that happened one the first floor of my townhome.  Building a layout and especially scenery "may" be messy at times so it's best to plan for that.

For a layout room for sure don't use thick carpet - what onewolf recommended is more like an indoor/outdoor carpet and the 2x2 squares seem to be almost universal in offices these days and I'm guessing you can find it economically.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by joe323 on Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:41 AM

Avoid thick carpet as small parts will disappear only to br swallowed by the dog (choking hazard) or by the wifes bare foot ouch!

During the recent move of the SIW we went with laminate flooring which has worked well.

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:18 AM

Onewolf

1) Flooring - I went with 2x2 "random" carpet tiles because they were the least expensive flooring option that are 'easy' on the feet. They are also easy to replace should an ugly accident occur.

I like this option.  I suppose the only down side is with plaster and other messy things replacement might be necessary in numerous places. 

In my last home there was carpet in the layout room when I built the layout.  It was water damaged when the sump pump failed so it was ripped out while the layout was in-place.  I installed stick on floor tile while the layout was up and it was easy to lift the legs here and there to slide the tile in place.  I'm thinking I might do the same thing, build the layout and add tiles floor tiles in afterward by lifting legs up just a tiny bit and slide them in place (either carpet tiles or standard 1x1' floor tiles).

2) Lighting - You need to think about room lighting for construction and layout lighting as two separate systems.  I went with 4ft T8 flourescent fixtures for room lighting which is quite bright. I am using 2835LED strips for layout lighting.

Did you consider some form of 4 ft T8 "style" LED lights?  They can be bright and use less electricity and in my experience, the T8's can burn out in as little as 2-3 years.  I bought 4 fixtures for my last layout and later added 4 more LED (in the 2 4 ft formate) and they are brighter and supposedly have much longer life. 

In the photo, the far left fixture is conventional fluorescent, the one in the middle with the pull-chain is LED

I'm currently thinking about a drop ceiling mount version of those if I can find an economical option for the new layout room.  Anyone explore that option and have recommendations?

3) I painted my backdrop directly on the drywall and used 1/8" masonite to cove the backdrop corners.

I plan on painting directly on the drywall as well.  There are areas where I plan on a view-block-divide which I plan on using masonite or hard-board at least 2 feet high, maybe 3.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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