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Can you put a turnout on a grade?

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Can you put a turnout on a grade?
Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:45 AM

Everything I've read here seems to say no, but it the approach, normal and diverging route are on the same grade, does it cause a problem?

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by carl425 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:48 AM

You can put a turnout on a grade as long as the grade doesn't change for one car length on each side of the turnout.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 9:50 AM

carl425
You can put a turnout on a grade as long as the grade doesn't change for one car length on each side of the turnout.

+1

I've never seen anything posted here (from a reliable source) that suggests that a turnout cannot be located on the grade. 

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Posted by SouthPenn on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 11:41 AM

+2

I have a double crossover on a grade.

South Penn
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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 12:05 PM

I don't know about never, but I have seen a lot of caution expressed abut locating turnouts on a grade. I suspect that a lot of that is the Voice of Experience and I don't mean good ones.

It will work, provided you provide enough transition  and vertical curve smoothing so that it doesn't cause problems. If everything is on the same grade going the same direction is easiest. It's when there's a rise  followed by a decline or vice versa where things get dicey. If you already have worked out what vertical curve transitions work for your needs, then doubling the length of such compensations, is probably a good rule of thumb.

If you aren't sure what a vertical curve or a transition to or from it is, then look that up as it's a concept vital to understanding how to make this work smoothly for you. The easiest way to see this in action is to watch how couplers rise and fall in height and relation to each other above the rail over changes in grade.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 12:59 PM

I have a turnout on a grade, about a 1% grade.  the through track follows the grade of the branch line, and the diverging route track go to a pulp wood loading area.

I haven't had any problems with it, but it is on a switching spur, not on a main line.

Mike.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:34 PM

What Carl425 wrote..........

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:44 PM

mlehman
I have seen a lot of caution expressed abut locating turnouts on a grade. I suspect that a lot of that is the Voice of Experience and I don't mean good ones.

That's what I remembered, but with some of the problems posted here, I'm sure some put vertical kinks on every end of their turnout plus unintentional superelevation.

Thanks for the info, everyone.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:26 PM

carl425

You can put a turnout on a grade as long as the grade doesn't change for one car length on each side of the turnout.

I would make that your longest locomotive length on each side of the turnout, particularly if you run steam with long wheelbases.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:42 PM

All three of the turnouts shown below are on grades...

The two tracks at left rise as they approach the camera, while the track to the factory drops at the same rate, then levels-out.
The track at right is rising as it approaches the distant turnout, and the points-end of that turnout is higher than the end closer to the viewer.  The low point of the "dip" on the main occurs adjacent to the closest boxcar on the factory's spur.

All of the up and down track here is to allow a medium height just beyond the distant curve, as that's where the line splits, with one going to the lower level of the layout, and the other to the upper.  That starting point allowed me to keep the grades to a maximum of 2.8%.

Wayne

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Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 6:41 PM

I have several on grades, both curved crossovers and yard turnouts. 

A practical matter on the yard off of a mainline grade is that typically one wants the yard flat enough so the cars don't move on their own, thus it is important to allow for the vertical transition mentioned above; i.e., accommodating the slope difference between the flat yard and the mainline grade.  The transition eats into the useable yard length for cars that don't move on their own.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:13 PM

I have an #8 or #10 on a grade where my main line goes into two mains. I also have a curved T/O on a grade and never had an issue.

Cowboy

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1

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