Got yet another slightly odd ball for the group: Has anybody ever seen anything on using plastic 2'x4' covers to make the surface for water (or in my case a lake)? This would be for HO scale. Given the area that my layout sits, using varnish, resin or the Woodland Scenics plastics (that one melts) would not work well. As usual, any assistance that can provided would be most welcomed.
There was a bit of a thread here about "blue plastic sheets" that evolved into acrylic light diffusers:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/267495.aspx
I have used the "Cracked Ice" panels for temporary water effects* and it can be pretty convincing if you color it and finish it properly.
*photo in a reply at the above link
Hope that helps, Ed
That's the idea I had in mind. Couple questions, though: First, how easy/hard is the material to cut? I have a lot of curves on my lake. Second, what sort of adhesive would be the best for joining two pieces together in such a way that it wouldn't be as obvious? I'm pretty sure that the lake is larger than 1 sheet. I have it designed for a medium size car ferry.)
FRRYKid That's the idea I had in mind. Couple questions, though: First, how easy/hard is the material to cut? I have a lot of curves on my lake. Second, what sort of adhesive would be the best for joining two pieces together in such a way that it wouldn't be as obvious? I'm pretty sure that the lake is larger than 1 sheet. I have it designed for a medium size car ferry.)
I suspect you can get pretty big sheets. They use that stuff to make privacy windows and shower doors. It's most likely ordinary acrylic, so no special tools required. I went through a stained glass phase a few years back, and you can get actual glass that looks similar. Some moderately special tools for glass, but nothing outrageous.
Good luck.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
I'm pretty sure I would want the plastic. A bit stronger and more flexible. I tend to get a bit clumbsy around things like that. (And I don't have a local source for stained glass either.)
FRRYKidFirst, how easy/hard is the material to cut?
All my cuts were straight and I could use a table saw with a very fine-toothed plywood blade and feed it slowly.
Acrylic has a tendency to shatter or splinter. IF I were making curved cuts I would choose 1) a Roto-zip high speed rotary cutter or 2) a very fine toothed jig saw with the sheet supported on a piece of scrap plywood.
FRRYKidSecond, what sort of adhesive would be the best for joining two pieces together
I think two sheets would still be flimsy if spanning a large area.
Rather than sandwiching two sheets together I would try using a layer of smooth plywood underlayment such as sold for making floors smooth prior to laying sheet vinyl flooring. It is smooth, lightweight and sturdy.
Sureply is one brand that I have used:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/SurePly-1-4-in-Whitewood-Plywood-Application-as-4-x-8/50124674
Then you could paint this in varying shades of yellow/green/brown and almost black toward the center to give the effect of depth.
Then you could use a translucent tint on the acrylic sheet to give it a greenish shade and lay this over the painted underlayment, smooth side up.
Just an idea. You could experiment with various colors until you get the effect you are looking for.
Good Luck, Ed
I’ve never tried using them for model projects but being an electrician I have thrown way several of them because they are fragile and break fairly easily. You will most likely have to mount them on top of plywood. You can probably cut them with a razor knife by scratching a line on it and snapping it, but no promises. If I were to use them I wouldn't try to cut them in round shapes. I would instead leave them squared and build up the shore on top of them.
FRRYKidI have a lot of curves on my lake. Second, what sort of adhesive would be the best for joining two pieces together in such a way that it wouldn't be as obvious?
I think for your shoreline, Lone Wolf has a good idea. Lay the sheet, then do your lakeshore scenery on top of the sheet.
For joining the sheets, your talking about butting to sheets together? That would be very hard to conceal.
Have you thought about making your lake using the methods that Dr. Wayne has done? Smooth plaster, painted to create the illusion of depth, and covered with multiple clear gloss coats. There are many products for making small waves and ripples.
Hey, I just thought of something, using the plastic sheets, you could still use the water ripple effect products to hide the joint between two sheets.
Instead of buying commercially availiable water ribble stuff, like Woodland Scenics offers, I have used LEXEL clear silicone caulk. Just about every hardware store carries it. I used it for waves, ribbles, and waterfalls.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewi I think for your shoreline, Lone Wolf has a good idea. Lay the sheet, then do your lakeshore scenery on top of the sheet.
Part of the problem with that is I have the shoreline already built. Although it wouldn't be hard to redo a few areas as needed. (The surface is ground up newspaper.)
mbinsewi Have you thought about making your lake using the methods that Dr. Wayne has done? Smooth plaster, painted to create the illusion of depth, and covered with multiple clear gloss coats. There are many products for making small waves and ripples.
The main problem with doing that is the lake is open on two sides and I highly doubt the area where the layout lake section sits is level. I don't usually have the time for all those methods to set up. Third, there is an area in the bed that is raised (sandbar-ese for the car ferry to sit on.
mbinsewi Hey, I just thought of something, using the plastic sheets, you could still use the water ripple effect products to hide the joint between two sheets. Instead of buying commercially availiable water ribble stuff, like Woodland Scenics offers, I have used LEXEL clear silicone caulk. Just about every hardware store carries it. I used it for waves, ribbles, and waterfalls.
That particular idea floated though my mind as well. With having the sandbar, I might hide be able to hide the seam in the wake from the ferry.
I was out to my layout this afternoon and got the lake measured. (Had to go out for another purpose.) As I suspected, the lake is bigger than one piece of grid. (At its largest points it is approximately 3'6" by 3'. That throws the idea of hiding the seam in the ferry wake out the window.) The curves (with one exception) are fairly gentle. The one that it not is closer to an inlet. (IIRC, that resulted when the jigsaw that I used to originally cut the lake decided to quit working.)
FRRYKid...Given the area that my layout sits, using varnish, resin or the Woodland Scenics plastics (that one melts) would not work well...
If the area where the water is to be located is that inaccessible, it's unlikely that you'll have better luck trying to handling these acrylic panels, as they'll crack if flexed too vigourously, or if an edge accidentally bumps something.I've found these light diffusing panels to be extremely brittle, and have cracked or chipped several while simply installing them in the drop ceiling. I have also, with some difficulty, cut them, but only in straight lines.If the quoted comment refers to the odours created by some water-making products, the high gloss urethane which I used on my water surfaces is water-based, and has no more odour than regular latex paint...actually less, in my opinion. The paint and plaster which I used are equally low-odour.
I'm not saying it's the only solution, or the one for your particular situation, but mine was done with no prior experience or any how-to to follow...it was an idea which popped into my head, and I just figured that it was worth a try. I'm not at all disappointed by the results.
Wayne
It's not a case of inaccessiblity or odor. (The area where the layout sits is quite open to avoid unhealthy concentration of odor. It is in the upper floor of a shop building.) It's more a case that the contigous blocks of time that I have for working on the layout is not sufficent (at least from what I can tell) for the use of a lot of the materials that were suggested. My layout and I are not in the same locale. I only get out about once a week.
FRRYKid...It's more a case that the contigous blocks of time that I have for working on the layout is not sufficent (at least from what I can tell) for the use of a lot of the materials that were suggested....
Okay, I can understand that. The biggest time consumer for your situation would be the Durabond, at least if you needed to create waves. For the small areas with which I was working, it wasn't too bad, but, depending on the consistency of the plaster, you need to wait until the plaster is almost ready to begin setting, then tease-up the waves with a putty knife or similar tool. For a lake of the size you mention, the plaster would solidify, likely before you were even half-done.The painting step is very easy and quick - I used a 2" or 2 1/2" brush, but you could use a 3" for your larger area. Just like painting a wall, only there's no need to be too fussy. Likewise for the clear coats, although you'd need to stick around for the initial coat to dry (about 4 hours) so that the second coat could be added.
If you could do without waves, and instead have ripples, I've seen very good-looking water done using gloss medium, stippled-on with an artist's-type brush. That would allow you to make the plaster pretty-much level, much easier and faster than trying to tease-up a lakeful of waves. So, one visit to place the plaster "water", a second to paint the "water", then a third visit to give it the clear coats, and another visit (or more - I think this step doesn't have to be done all at once) to stipple-on the ripples.Perhaps not your preference, but it at least provides an option.